Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[St Enodoc]

Veronica went to Randwick Races with some work colleagues today, so I had a free run in the railway room.

 

The remaining 14 point motors are in the corner under the computer, where the Paddington and Penzance loops overlap. Each set of loops will have 12 points here, of which 7 are installed already. The 24 points were split originally between three AD-S8fx decoder boards. I decided to make a start with the Paddington points, for several reasons. First, they are all simple installations with no need for right-angle adaptors or other contrivances to avoid the baseboard structure. Secondly, one of the decoder boards is dedicated to Paddington so that would let me remove it completely before continuing at Penzance. Thirdly, access was just a little easier so by changing out the Paddington motors first it would make more space when I come to do Penzance.

 

Here is the group of two decoder boards under the Penzance baseboard. The 12 decoders furthest to the left are for Penzance and the 4 furthest to the right are for Paddington. The other 8 decoders are out of sight on the right under the Paddington board.

 

All went well and I completed all 7 Paddington points over the course of the afternoon.

 

After conversion, I checked everything using the 350hp shunter, which has a wheelbase shorter than the switched frog sections so is a good test loco. Everything was fine.

 

Here is the same group of decoders after conversion. You can now see two Cobalts that have replaced H&Ms near the front of the board and you should also be able to see that there is a lot less wire around, particularly on the right.

 

I'll have a crack at some of the Penzance points tomorrow but I don't expect to be able to complete them before next Saturday's running session.

Edited July 18, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Barry O]

I hope V enjoyed the races and managed to win a few tokens!

Baz

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

I hope V enjoyed the races and managed to win a few tokens!

Baz

She had a good time but unfortunately lost more than she won...

[5BarVT]

I thought that was always how it works.

Paul. 

[St Enodoc]

NO MORE THUNKS!

 

Against all my expectations, I finished the change-out of the H&M point motors for Cobalts today. The reason I hadn't expected it was that I knew that point 505 would take longer than average. Readers with long memories will recall that this point sits right above the junction of two L-girders and the H&M had to fitted with an extended operating wire so that it could be mounted on a clear piece of baseboard.

 

This is how the old motor looked after it was removed.

 

The new motor needed a right-angle adaptor and after a lot of fiddling and jiggling I got the motor to sit on its side directly above the L-girders. This made it a little awkward to connect up but I got there in the end and the point still works well.

 

After that it was plain sailing, even with 511 point which had a Maygib motor as it is right up against the back of the layout.

 

Here's the same view of the corner that I took yesterday but with all the decoder boards now removed. The whole area underneath the board is less congested and tidier now, which bodes well for when I install the remaining 10 points to complete the loops here.

 

Here are all the recovered motors and decoder boards. I'll hang on to them for a while but I suspect they might end up on the bring-and-buy stand at an exhibition or BRMA Convention one day.

 

Finally, here is the recovered wire. I can use the red/black/green harnesses when I install more points, while the yellow/pink/grey combination is now spare. I'll use that for something to do with signalling, probably the Line Clear releases and the Tokenless Block between St Enodoc and Treloggan Junction.

 

Just a quick tidy-up next Saturday morning and we will be good to go for the running session in the afternoon.

 

Now for dinner, and a nice drop of red to celebrate.

Edited July 18, 2023 by St Enodoc
images restored

[Stubby47]

Will you have any indicators to let you know the point has changed? The reassuring thunk from a distant point is always a good thing to hear.

[St Enodoc]

40 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Will you have any indicators to let you know the point has changed? The reassuring thunk from a distant point is always a good thing to hear.

I'm not planning to have indicators Stu. Yes, the thunk was always a good sign that something had happened but equally so is the whirr of a Cobalt. With route-setting, though, a non-thunk was often masked by several actual thunks (the same applies to whirrs) so there is no advantage of one type of motor over the other in that case. Overall, I think that pressing the button is sufficient and the extra complication of wiring indicators back to the panel isn't worth it for me. If I''m proven wrong then I'll have a rethink.

[Martin S-C]

Hi John

 

Your work is so insanely tidy!

I see you use NCE Powercabs to run the layout. I bought one a year back for testing and programming and am thinking of using them on my layout. I understand booster units can be fitted, probably necessary in my case as up to six locos could be moving at one time. My point and signal motors will be on a separate bus and the powercabs will be for driving only, points/signals to be worked from signal cabin frames at each station. What is your experience with the Powercabs?

[Chamby]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I'm not planning to have indicators Stu. Yes, the thunk was always a good sign that something had happened but equally so is the whirr of a Cobalt. With route-setting, though, a non-thunk was often masked by several actual thunks (the same applies to whirrs) so there is no advantage of one type of motor over the other in that case. Overall, I think that pressing the button is sufficient and the extra complication of wiring indicators back to the panel isn't worth it for me. If I''m proven wrong then I'll have a rethink.

I fitted alpha mimic boards to my layout last month.  I can heartily recommend their use.  The visual confirmation, particularly when setting a series of points, is most reassuring.  A clunk is one thing, but knowing which way it has clunked is much better...

 

Now I simply look along the chosen route on the indicator panel, and check that all the lights are green.  If there is a red light, then it is obvious what has to be changed.

 

Yes of course you can work it out by checking everything manually, but for me the visual confirmation speeds things up, as well as providing a ‘belt and braces’ approach which is useful when working with novice operators!  NB I have still to install working signals, so don’t have that way of checking route settings yet.

 

Compared with all the other equipment you have installed, it is a relatively low cost addition, that being a mimic system does not interfere in any way whatsoever with what you have in use already.  I wouldn’t be without mine now...

 

Phil.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Hi John

 

Your work is so insanely tidy!

I see you use NCE Powercabs to run the layout. I bought one a year back for testing and programming and am thinking of using them on my layout. I understand booster units can be fitted, probably necessary in my case as up to six locos could be moving at one time. My point and signal motors will be on a separate bus and the powercabs will be for driving only, points/signals to be worked from signal cabin frames at each station. What is your experience with the Powercabs?

Martin, I have only one PowerCab, which is always connected to the cab bus via a UTP so that if the radio system fails for any reason I can use the emergency stop function.

 

All the other throttles are radio ProCabs. Track power comes from a Power Pro combined command station and booster, while the accessory bus is fed by an SB5 booster in dumb mode.

 

For your layout, I'd definitely recommend a wireless system Is NCE radio approved for UK use yet?). The standard upgrade path for the PowerCab is to use an SB5 as the booster.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Chamby said:

I fitted alpha mimic boards to my layout last month.  I can heartily recommend their use.  The visual confirmation, particularly when setting a series of points, is most reassuring.  A clunk is one thing, but knowing which way it has clunked is much better...

 

Now I simply look along the chosen route on the indicator panel, and check that all the lights are green.  If there is a red light, then it is obvious what has to be changed.

 

Yes of course you can work it out by checking everything manually, but for me the visual confirmation speeds things up, as well as providing a ‘belt and braces’ approach which is useful when working with novice operators!  NB I have still to install working signals, so don’t have that way of checking route settings yet.

 

Compared with all the other equipment you have installed, it is a relatively low cost addition, that being a mimic system does not interfere in any way whatsoever with what you have in use already.  I wouldn’t be without mine now...

 

Phil.

Thanks Phil. In the storage loops, all the points are controlled from mimic panels using route-setting via NCE Mini Panels - not by changing them individually. I don't need to worry about "missing" a button. I do have to rely on a) the Mini Panel inputs being programmed correctly and b) the motors throwing reliably. With regard to a), this done and tested at initial set-up and for b) this is the reason I changed from solenoids to Cobalts. So far so good!

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Martin, I have only one PowerCab, which is always connected to the cab bus via a UTP so that if the radio system fails for any reason I can use the emergency stop function.

 

All the other throttles are radio ProCabs. Track power comes from a Power Pro combined command station and booster, while the accessory bus is fed by an SB5 booster in dumb mode.

 

For your layout, I'd definitely recommend a wireless system Is NCE radio approved for UK use yet?). The standard upgrade path for the PowerCab is to use an SB5 as the booster.

I'll need to look up about NCE wireless in the UK. I am always twitchy about wireless as signal drop can leave you in it, but since I have a wired NCE PoCa already I can use that as a safety back up in the same manner you do.

 

More investigation necessary!

[Barry O]

Digitraxx wireless works well (nicktoix operated the Liverpool Overhead Railway at Southampton Show from 2 floors above the layout), Lenz works ok but never tried NCE by wireless. Need to check with Mike if it is used that way on Carlisle

Baz

[Michael Edge]

We did try the NCE wireless on Carlisle but it didn't seem to have enough range for 30m x 6m, then someone poured coffee into the handset and it hasn't worked since....

[Martin S-C]

With my railway room at 8.25m long I should be okay. Another thing to bear in mind with wireless is ease of use (no cables to foul or get in the way) vs putting down the handset and forgetting where - not an issue with a wired handset.

[St Enodoc]

The Ark has sailed...

 

Confirmation overnight that D601 is on its way from Camborne. It won't arrive in time for this Saturday's running session but I'm looking forward to being able to recreate The Stationmaster's sighting of it on the Up Postal very soon.

[The Fatadder]

Having just finished rebuilding one of the double slips for Brent, I have tried to have a go at your operating linkage.  I have used the two pseudo sleepers as the tie bars, but I am interested to hear more about how you connected them together and whether this allows the two tie bars to move by fractionally different amounts.  

 

Given my inability to get precision when drilling without the aid of a computer or jig, I have made the tiebar from copperclad to avoid the need to drill.  Seems to have held up on my other switches so fingers crossed..... 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Having just finished rebuilding one of the double slips for Brent, I have tried to have a go at your operating linkage.  I have used the two pseudo sleepers as the tie bars, but I am interested to hear more about how you connected them together and whether this allows the two tie bars to move by fractionally different amounts.  

 

Given my inability to get precision when drilling without the aid of a computer or jig, I have made the tiebar from copperclad to avoid the need to drill.  Seems to have held up on my other switches so fingers crossed..... 

Rich, you will need to drill but not with any great level of precision.

 

You need to drill a hole in each tiebar, just the right size to allow a brass pin to rotate freely without slop. Put a 90 degree bend in the pins, one per tiebar, as close to the head as you can. Push the pin through the hole from above so the head sits above the tiebar.

 

For each pair of tiebars, i.e. the two next to each other at each end, place the pins parallel to each other about 1mm apart (Blu-Tak to hold the pin heads to the tiebars will help here). Solder a small washer to the two pins to connect them together. I used 14BA because I had some but 16BA is a closer fit to 0.8mm piano wire, which is what Cobalts come with as standard (Tortoise wire is slightly thinner but you might find you need to replace it to get enough stiffness).

 

You will find that the two tiebars can move independently but if you use the washer to move them they will move in the same direction at the same time. The linkage allows one to carry on moving when the first has stopped until both tiebars have thrown completely.

 

Hope this makes sense in conjunction with the pictures and video from way back!

 

For ease of reference, the description of the equalising links is here:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2786496

 

and the video of them in operation is here:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2929368

Edited March 13, 2019 by St Enodoc

[The Fatadder]

Thanks, I will give it a go this evening and see how I get on.  Worst comes to the worst I will just have to fit two more tortoise motors. 

 

I use beefed up wire on my Tortoise (I think it is 0.8mm), While I don't have any suitable washers I assume a short length of a suitable brass tube which I do have will do the job just as well.

 

One other thing I forgot to add, 

How are you planning to ballast the area between the two tie bars without gumming it all up?

 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by The Fatadder

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Thanks, I will give it a go this evening and see how I get on.  Worst comes to the worst I will just have to fit two more tortoise motors. 

 

I use beefed up wire on my Tortoise (I think it is 0.8mm), While I don't have any suitable washers I assume a short length of a suitable brass tube which I do have will do the job just as well.

 

One other thing I forgot to add, 

How are you planning to ballast the area between the two tie bars without gumming it all up?

 

 

Rich, as you will have seen from some of the other posts on laying points I use DCC Concepts printed "ballast" labels under the tiebars, so I don't need to ballast in that area at all (this applies to all my points not just the slips).

 

Edit: for example https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2871074

Edited March 13, 2019 by St Enodoc

[Barry O]

..or wait for a visit from the Ballastmeister???

 

Baz

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Rich, as you will have seen from some of the other posts on laying points I use DCC Concepts printed "ballast" labels under the tiebars, so I don't need to ballast in that area at all (this applies to all my points not just the slips).

 

Edit: for example https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2871074

I must have overlooked that, a clever soloution.  

[St Enodoc]

On 12/03/2019 at 00:02, Michael Edge said:

We did try the NCE wireless on Carlisle but it didn't seem to have enough range for 30m x 6m, then someone poured coffee into the handset and it hasn't worked since....

If French coffee does that to an NCE handset just imagine what it's doing to your guts...

[Michael Edge]

It was probably Nescafe, bought at Asda in Kent - it did work again briefly after drying out but then died completely.

16.2mm check gauge on its way to you today, sorry for the delay.

 

[Martin S-C]

Ah, but your guts fight back with even worse things than are in the coffee! A poor old NCE handset has no defence.