Class 800 - Updates

[Reorte]

The mk3 coach was a world beater, in my opinion, and has never really been bettered but let's not forget what horrors they produced with that same basic design once they decided to adopt it for for units.

 

Then when new meant a class 31 and six coaches was replaced with a two car class 156 on the Brum - Norwich run, new was truly awful.

 

At least today's new trains do not derogate service quality to anything like that kind of extent, indeed, I rather like this new generation of train, even including those Voyagers (OK not so new now).

 

Had one tilting at 125 mph between Euston and Chester and the performance, ride and all round ambience was stunning, the only thing that let that design down really was the rather short formations they were delivered in but that was not the fault of the train.

 

I have to say sprinterisation was a horrible period, the only time it made me consider what on earth are they doing to my railway and even reconsider rail travel as an option. It was only the arrival of the class 158 that improved matters but even then that required generosity of thinking when so many two car sets kept tuning up.

 

It was the arrival of class 168 Turbostars on Chiltern when I finally thought maybe units are not so bad after all.

Like I said upthread rather against my general principles so far I'm not actually disliking some of what I've seen. Unit-wise with the older ones it depends what was there before. If I'm lucky I end up with a 156 on my local line and although they're a bit noisy I don't find them too bad - that's on a line that's been unit worked since before steam stopped though, they're probably the best ones to have regularly travelled that way. Their biggest downside is the recently-added scrolling LED screens flicker really, really annoyingly. The main problem with Voyagers is that they tend to have too many people in them rather than anything fundamentally bad about the design. Engines under the floor will always be a step down from having them out of the way in separate vehicles though (not a problem on the electrified bits though, unless someone's really messed them up).

Edited June 24, 2017 by Reorte

[SouthernMafia]

On a completely trivial note, one thing that does stick out a bit (IMHO) is that the 800's are so obviously "vinyled". You can see the light grey base coat around the doors, handrails and other gaps where the vinyls don't cover. At first glance the 802's which have been built for GWR appear to have been built dark green from the factory so don't have the unsightly edges.

Class 800 - DfTs - can't paint em.

Class 802 - First Groups - can paint em.

[Southernman46]

The MAJOR factor that will be good to see the back of with respect to the HST's will be the lack of shite deposited on the track in future - on Wessex when the Desiro's were introduced, it was a blessed relief to be able to undertake S&C inspections and L2 defect measurements without having to skirt the contents of someone's bowels or see the distant "plume" and attempt to hold one's breath for the next 10 minutes so as not to breathe the aerosoled delights ...................... surely people MUST remember the state of the old Plat 7 at Reading - possibly the most disgusting piece of track I have EVER come across - with the possible exception of Portsmouth harbour in the old days.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Southernman46

[The Stationmaster]

The MAJOR factor that will be good to see the back of with respect to the HST's will be the lack of shite deposited on the track in future - on Wessex when the Desiro's were introduced, it was a blessed relief to be able to undertake S&C inspections and L2 defect measurements without having to skirt the contents of someone's bowels or see the distant "plume" and attempt to hold one's breath for the next 10 minutes so as not to breathe the aerosoled delights ...................... surely people MUST remember the state of the old Plat 7 at Reading - possibly the most disgusting piece of track I have EVER come across - with the possible exception of Portsmouth harbour in the old days.

 

I think No.5 (Up Main Platform Line) was worse.

[Zomboid]

I'm not sure what the excuse for mk3s still having turd on the track toilets is. That should have been fixed in the 1990s. I'm pretty certain that 442s had tanks, so the technology to put them on Mk3 bodyshells is not exactly new.

[4630]

 

 I'm pretty certain that 442s had tanks, so the technology to put them on Mk3 bodyshells is not exactly new.

 

 

They did for sure.

[Coryton]

Class 800 - DfTs - can't paint em.

Class 802 - First Groups - can paint em.

 

Hmmm.

 

Neither class actually owned by the DfT or First though, surely?

 

Have all liveries since trains were owned by ROSCOs been vinyls?

 

I thought FGW/GWR had stopped using vinyls with at least some of their trains because they were corroding underneath.

[SouthernMafia]

Hmmm.

 

Neither class actually owned by the DfT or First though, surely?

 

Have all liveries since trains were owned by ROSCOs been vinyls?

 

I thought FGW/GWR had stopped using vinyls with at least some of their trains because they were corroding underneath.

 

I'm not sure on the exact finance arrangements but Eversholt own the Class 802s and will lease to First, but First have put money into them as well so I'm not 100% sure on what the arrangement is.

As for the 800s...

 

Press Release

"This is part of the £5.8bn programme covering the design, build, finance and maintenance over a 27.5 year period of the class 800 series fleets of the Great Western and East Coast Main Lines."

 

The Class 800s are financed by DafT who have contracted out to Agility Trains, who then lease to the TOCs.

 

That's my understanding any way, happy to be corrected ?

Edited June 26, 2017 by SouthernMafia

[Ron Ron Ron]

Press Release

"This is part of the £5.8bn programme covering the design, build, finance and maintenance over a 27.5 year period of the class 800 series fleets of the Great Western and East Coast Main Lines."

 

The Class 800s are financed by DafT who have contracted out to Agility Trains, who then lease to the TOCs.

 

That's my understanding any way, happy to be corrected ?

 

 

(My bold.)

The IEP procured Class 800's are not financed by the DafT, but by the financial partners in Agilty Trains, who are a consortia of international banks and investment groups, headed up and managed by a division of HSBC.

 

These include Japan Bank for International Cooperation, HSBC, Lloyds Bank, Mizuho, Bank of Tokyo-Mutsubishi UFJ, Mitsubishi UFJ Trust and Banking Corporation, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, Sumitomo Mitsui Trust Bank and the European Investment Bank (EIB).

 

All the Daft have paid for, is the very expensive procurement process and NR are paying for any infrastructure work required to accommodate the trains.

 

 

.

[SouthernMafia]

Hmmm.

 

Neither class actually owned by the DfT or First though, surely?

 

Have all liveries since trains were owned by ROSCOs been vinyls?

 

I thought FGW/GWR had stopped using vinyls with at least some of their trains because they were corroding underneath.

My understanding of this has changed - during testing the IETs are still Hitachi's and so aren't being painted. Once the Passenger certificate is granted by the ORR then GWR have a bit more control over them, and subsequent new builds will be green ex-factory, and painted. The only vinyls will then be the logos, ala the 802 that arrived 10 days ago (that hasn't been vinyled yet but is planned to be)

[10800]

A bit late with this video (I needed a new card reader to transfer from camera to laptop) but here is the train passing Teignmouth last Thursday

 

 

[jamie92208]

A bit late with this video (I needed a new card reader to transfer from camera to laptop) but here is the train passing Teignmouth last Thursday

 

Was there a lot of bogie squeal as it went round the bend. It almost sounded like a pacer.

 

Jamie

[JJGraphics]

Was there a lot of bogie squeal as it went round the bend. It almost sounded like a pacer.

 

Jamie

 

 

Certainly sounded more like a Pacer than a modern unit. I don't recall flange squeal like that on videos of other trains in that location.

 

I also got the impression that not all of the engines were running . . . anyone else notice this?

 

John

[10800]

Sharp curve, superelevation, slow speed - nearly all trains squeal.

[Zomboid]

I also got the impression that not all of the engines were running . . . anyone else notice this?

 

John

The engines are pretty quiet from the outside (at platform idle & acceleration at least), and there aren't any on the driving cars, which may have given that impression.

[rob D2]

Gotta say that thing looks pretty cool in GWR green.look forward to seeing one here in Swindon

[Davexoc]

Certainly sounded more like a Pacer than a modern unit. I don't recall flange squeal like that on videos of other trains in that location.

 

I also got the impression that not all of the engines were running . . . anyone else notice this?

 

John

I thought I could detect a couple of wheel flats in there too.

 

Could it be a couple of engines have shut down to save fuel while coasting?

 

Dave

[Steadfast]

The green pair have been shuttling to Frome and back tonight, passing Westbury several times. I was impressed how quiet the engines are, noticeable given the noise of the 158 idling not too far from the 800s. The interior looks very stark and white from what I could make out through the windows whilst they were stopped at the station. More like the inside panelling of an airliner than a train. I think if that panelling was darker it'd look a lot more appealing and offer a more upmarket appeal. The seats didn't look too bad through the windows, they looked quite thick, but it's difficult to tell without being inside the thing and however much padding it has, comfort is always subjective. On that first impression I'd say they seem technically impressive but with a stark look and bare bones specification internally.

 

Jo

Edited June 29, 2017 by Steadfast

[D854_Tiger]

Those Maybach engines have been significantly de-rated in the class 800 presumably to save on maintenance costs and will of course be less noisier so configured.

 

I believe even when configured to produce an extra 200 bhp, for the class 802, the engines will still not be running at their highest rating.

 

As others have stated, a five car unit is formed as DT-M-M-M-DT three power cars and two trailers basically.

 

Nine car units are DT-M-M-T-M-T-M-M-DT five power cars and four trailers.

[Co-tr-Paul]

When it passed Long Rock, only one engine per set was running. Both directions.

[D854_Tiger]

When it passed Long Rock, only one engine per set was running. Both directions.

 

Maybe something to do with testing, maybe broken, maybe the motors are configured to shut down for lower power situations or maybe the seawater has been getting in after all.

[jamie92208]

I wonder if they have a set on standby to send down the seawall section during the next storm.

 

Jamie

[modfather]

When it passed Long Rock, only one engine per set was running. Both directions.

Some of the test runs have been on restricted power to prove emergency plans.

 

Others are just poor engineering.

[jim.snowdon]

Others are just poor engineering.

Unless you have inside knowledge, in which case you ought to be thinking before speaking, that has to be something of a presumption. One thing I am sure Hitachi are not, are amateurs.

 

Jim

[cornish trains jez]

I think it's quite clear that multiple unit technology is not the way forward and the quicker those in charge realise that loco hauled stock is the still the way forward, the better really.