well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[steve45]

On 19/03/2024 at 17:51, The Bandit said:

As I said before, I only use dcc in the most basic way. I’ve read the instructions but they seem to assume you already have some knowledge of dcc. I would like instructions which have very small steps to reach the desired result.

Have you watched Youtube, there is an enormous amount of stuff on there with multiple videos covering the same subject in a lot of cases

[Captain Kernow]

On 18/03/2024 at 13:05, woodenhead said:

I don't think it's alchemy but I think the decision to go DCC is whether it will add or detract from your enjoyment of what you model.  If you've been DC all your life and you're not feeling constrained by it in what you want to achieve with a model then there is no impetus to change.

 

I did it because I'd had enough of my pitiful attempts at a control panel, a pathetic reason really given I could happily wire up the layout with lots of sections (especially in the fiddlyard to stack trains), I could do the point motors with polarity switching, I even wired the railway so I could use two controllers anywhere on the layout, but I could not make a control panel beyond a black box with lots of holes drilled in it to save my life.  So when I went back to a terminus layout I thought I'd give DCC a go and bought some cheap chips from Rails.  Now I don't need a control panel as I have a piece of paper and an NCE Powercab to control all my locos and points.  I also gave sound a try as I really wanted a class 25 warbling away in my station.

 

But my impetus for DCC was my fear of the control panel

There are so many 'horror stories' about folk not being able to make DCC work as they want it to, various functions not working etc., that I am permanently put off, I'm afraid!

 

[John Besley]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

There are so many 'horror stories' about folk not being able to make DCC work as they want it to, various functions not working etc., that I am permanently put off, I'm afraid!

 

 

Actually i did get frustrated but asked a question here and had the right answer regards use of multiple locos and the Recall button works a treat for me.

 

However I did have a couple of instances where the sound portin of the decoder stopped working... powered the loco off by removing from the track turned off the controller and hey presto it works again, why does it do that?

[The Bandit]

That happened to me - my loco just stopped working for no reason so I too turned off the handset and then went for total belt and braces and even pulled the plug out of the wall socket - sad I know! When plugged back in it all worked perfectly. Weird!

[steve45]

Most systems have their own forums on which you can ask questions and lots of people are helpful with answers, Digitrains and NCE are two of which I know of.

 

Like most things in life, people get to hear of horror stories far more than successes.

Edited March 20 by steve45
spelling

[steve45]

1 minute ago, The Bandit said:

That happened to me - my loco just stopped working for no reason so I too turned off the handset and then went for total belt and braces and even pulled the plug out of the wall socket - sad I know! When plugged back in it all worked perfectly. Weird!

It's digital.................I have to reboot my computer on occasions when it slows down and freezes

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

There are so many 'horror stories' about folk not being able to make DCC work as they want it to, various functions not working etc., that I am permanently put off, I'm afraid!

 

 

There is no getting away from the simple fact that choosing/using DCC is overall a more expensive option than DC, indeed if you choose it can become very expensive. But that choice is up to every individual. However if you are prepared to undertake it in a series of small steps, learn and experience it at each level before moving on if you need or want to, then most people seem to find they are pleased they made the decision to adopt it. Basically I think of it as having a DC PWM controller in each loco tuned to react to my commands in the way I have told it to (via the cv settings). This helps to explain why some decoders cost a bit, the better quality ones. The big differential is with the system you choose along with the decoders. Go with the cheapest options and the results can be disappointing compared to getting the best to suit what you want, which isn't always the most expensive.

 

When I decided to try it I had a DC layout built in the normal way with section switches, point frogs switched by micro-switch etc. So I bought a DCC system, and a few decoders (non-sound), fitted the decoders into the locos ( N gauge 6-pin decoder DCC ready models I knew ran well), un-wired the DC controller, wired in the DCC one, and left all the section switches on.  I have never looked back.  Yes, over the 14 years since I have had the odd duff decoder, Zimo's actually, dead right out of the packet, but apart from that no real issues with decoders. Over time with the experiences gained I moved on one step at a time to fitting decoders via 'hard-wiring', then adding stay-alive, finally sound decoders in locos in the larger scales. 

 

Bob

 

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

There are so many 'horror stories' about folk not being able to make DCC work as they want it to, various functions not working etc., that I am permanently put off, I'm afraid!

 

 
Yes there are horror stories but blown out of proportion in many cases by rants 😉 

Oh I understand the frustration, I had a loco emit smoke that killed its decoder (it was replaced), two that just refused to go and required the decoder resetting to come alive and a few times they’ve had no sound until taken off and put back on a few seconds later. 
But then again I’ve had motors die in minutes on DC locos (Bachmann), locos requiring multiple mods to run without self destruction as an ever present risk (Heljan), motors that ran so noisily they were only tamed by a DCC decoder (Hornby) and locos that arrived with their internals hanging out (Dapol).

DCC adds an extra bit to fail and as it is effectively a mini computer sometimes it needs switching off and on again, that was also true of the full size 66’s in the early 2000’s, so much so that it became a known thing amongst the Signallers to ask drivers if they’d tried it! 😆

As I said before the biggest issue I find is poorly written or non existent info on setup and fault finding, that’s not particularly surprising in small manufacturers as the ones making it are so familiar with the tech that it doesn’t occur to them that others aren’t and often struggle to explain it in simple terms. My father and brother are both electrical engineers and are befuddled by the concept that I have no understanding of electronics yet you’d definitely want me to wire your layout over them as I get electrics and I can solder and organise wiring looms far better because I expect and want fault tracing to be simple. They wired an incredibly complex relay bank that controlled automatic sections on our garden railway in just two colours! 
I have learnt the few basics and wrote them down as I find where it is in different manufacturers systems, failing that I ask here and I enjoy it 99% of the time. 
 

The other 1% I feel like defenestrating the loco or software designer 😉

 

 

[woodenhead]

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

There are so many 'horror stories' about folk not being able to make DCC work as they want it to, various functions not working etc., that I am permanently put off, I'm afraid!

 

It depends I think what you expect of DCC.  As I’ve said I am a numpty when it comes to the detail on DCC but I’ve managed to install chips, both pins and hard wired.  I’ve also fitted speakers and recently stay alives.   I might need something to help contain shorts but a lot of the other gubbins is just stuff I don’t actually need.
 

I only went under the hood so to speak with CV settings to make my DMUs start better.  But you know what, the issue was not DCC it was dirt and a decent cleaning regime was the actual

answer.  One class 35 had some gremlins but I think I was given the wrong file on the chip as the second with the same chip and sound file order worked perfectly. 
 

A couple of chips blew but Zimo offer a good replacement warranty so I’ve not lost out anywhere.

 

But this isn’t to say you need to choose DCC, it needs to offer you something that you’re not currently getting from DC else what is the point.

 

For example I like to have a train loco chase an ECS out of the platform.  It’s easy with DCC, but no less possible with DC, it just takes planning in the design stage.

 

You have plenty of other skills when it comes to modelling and I’ve certainly never thought “that Captain, what he needs to embrace is DCC”.

[Donw]

you only have to run a typical DC loco in the dark to see odd sparks at the wheels. This is because the pickup system is imperfect.  DCC works by changing the polarity the timing of the changes indicates a zero or a one. The poor decoder is trying to work out the string of zeros and ones so the odd interruption can confuse it. Messages are repeated to minimise the issue, but it is little wonder that sometimes it turns the sound off or something else. However this happens rarely and switching things off and back on sorts it out.

 

One of the things I really like is the fact that when I stop a loco it stays stopped. It does not move if someone throws a section switch and connects the loco to their controller by mistake or just not thinking that the track my loco is on is also live. I have seen this happen when more than one person is operating  and when the one operator has forgotten to switch off one section.

 

Don

 

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Donw said:

One of the things I really like is the fact that when I stop a loco it stays stopped. It does not move if someone throws a section switch and connects the loco to their controller by mistake or just not thinking that the track my loco is on is also live. I have seen this happen when more than one person is operating  and when the one operator has forgotten to switch off one section.

Unless someone else selects the same loco number...

[NHY 581]

Morning all, 

 

That was an exciting couple of days but Sheep Dip is as ready as it will be ( given the time spent) to face the masses at Nailsea. 

 

Layout is done and everything is checked and plonked in the dining room ready to pack later. Rather late finish last night/ this morning but all good. Progress was assisted by headphones and a good dollop of Guns and Roses, Slash and Myles Kennedy. 

 

All done....then I stood back and realised I'd made a complete horse's arse of the screw spacing on the front fascia. 

 

Not overly worried. It happens and is easily resolved.......but not in the time I have left so it will go as is and I can correct it before the next outing in October. 

 

Anyone going to Nailsea, I'll see you there. Feel free to treat that particular corner of a foreign school that is Ovine for the weekend as base camp Sheep while you saunter about the rest of the show. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Worsdell forever]

1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

 

All done....then I stood back and realised I'd made a complete horse's arse of the screw spacing on the front fascia. 

 

 

As long as it doesn't lift it's tail you should get away with it.🐎

[woodenhead]

23 hours ago, Donw said:

One of the things I really like is the fact that when I stop a loco it stays stopped. It does not move if someone throws a section switch and connects the loco to their controller by mistake or just not thinking that the track my loco is on is also live. I have seen this happen when more than one person is operating  and when the one operator has forgotten to switch off one section.

 

Don

 

Unless it is fitted with a stay alive, a big one and the run time has not been cut down to a couple of seconds.  Then try and stop it as it mounts the baseboard and heads for the edge like a lemming.

 

Or as it my case last week, riding over incorrectly set blades on a single slip, shorting the track and refusing to yield until it completed it's trip over the crossing on it's relentless march, though I regained control once it was back on the rails.

[Donw]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Unless it is fitted with a stay alive, a big one and the run time has not been cut down to a couple of seconds.  Then try and stop it as it mounts the baseboard and heads for the edge like a lemming.

 

Or as it my case last week, riding over incorrectly set blades on a single slip, shorting the track and refusing to yield until it completed it's trip over the crossing on it's relentless march, though I regained control once it was back on the rails.

 

Well  that's bad driving going into a slip set against you.  But more importantly if you have hefty stay alives you really need to think like a railway where they have traps to divert errant vehicles out of harms way. But also have a safe distance head of a stop signal to allow for possible overruns. Strong buffers may also be adviseable.

 

I suggest a couple of seconds is more than enough stay alive. Of course in 7mm if there is enough flex in the turnout operating mechanism the loco will usually push the blades open. If you have a frog juicer it shouldn't cause a short so keeping control.

Careful layout design where you can have crossovers at the ends of loops  means a loco will not run against the blades merely  run into the headshunt  buffers (you do have both turnouts of a crossover worked by the same lever(switch) I presume.  

 

Don

[Rivercider]

Hi Rob. It was good to see Sheep Dip today at Nailsea, it is a lovely little layout.

 

I enjoyed the show, and hope to catch up again at the SWAG do.

 

cheers

Edited March 23 by Rivercider
Spelling

[leavesontheline]

Yes, very nice to see Sheep Dip today. Maybe the third (?) of your excellent layouts I've seen in the flesh. Did you see 'Bleat'? His sheep were flocked ..... 

[John Besley]

6 hours ago, leavesontheline said:

Yes, very nice to see Sheep Dip today. Maybe the third (?) of your excellent layouts I've seen in the flesh. Did you see 'Bleat'? His sheep were flocked ..... 

 

I'd be flocked if all you had to eat was that type of grass

[NHY 581]

11 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Hi Rob. It was good to see Sheep Dip today at Nailsea, it is a lovely little layout.

 

I enjoyed the show, and hope to catch up again at the SWAG do.

 

cheers

 

Morning K, 

 

Good to see you yesterday. Thank you. Dippy pretty much behaved itself. I've got a nice spot, tucked away. 

Once today is attended to, it's full on for SWAG and the new project. 

 

8 hours ago, leavesontheline said:

Yes, very nice to see Sheep Dip today. Maybe the third (?) of your excellent layouts I've seen in the flesh. Did you see 'Bleat'? His sheep were flocked ..... 

 

Morning, 

 

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed Dip. It's probably one of the most satisfying of the layouts so far. Operation is quite simple really but it does have one or two quirks which make it fun to operate in places ( read "why did I build it like that ?!)

 

I didn't stray very far from the layout yesterday so haven't really seen much of the other exhibits as of yet.  I'm hoping to nip about before doors open today but I need to sort an errant wire/connector which by the end of the day was giving me a Norman Collier effect to the controller.........but I may also have a wander towards the end of proceedings if it tails off before close of play. 

 

So, here's to day two of what thus far has been a very enjoyable weekend. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Gilbert]

3 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Morning K, 

 

Good to see you yesterday. Thank you. Dippy pretty much behaved itself. I've got a nice spot, tucked away. 

Once today is attended to, it's full on for SWAG and the new project. 

 

 

Morning, 

 

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed Dip. It's probably one of the most satisfying of the layouts so far. Operation is quite simple really but it does have one or two quirks which make it fun to operate in places ( read "why did I build it like that ?!)

 

I didn't stray very far from the layout yesterday so haven't really seen much of the other exhibits as of yet.  I'm hoping to nip about before doors open today but I need to sort an errant wire/connector which by the end of the day was giving me a Norman Collier effect to the controller.........but I may also have a wander towards the end of proceedings if it tails off before close of play. 

 

So, here's to day two of what thus far has been a very enjoyable weekend. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

The offer of one of our apprentices still stands...

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Gilbert said:

The offer of one of our apprentices still stands...

 

He looks a bit old for an apprentice. 

 

 

[Gilbert]

3 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

He looks a bit old for an apprentice. 

 

 

Every day's a school day....

[paulbb]

Any Sheep Dip images from the show to titilate us with?

[F-UnitMad]

8 hours ago, Gilbert said:

The offer of one of our apprentices still stands...

I like the subtle indoctrination going on there. If Mr Sheep Bloke won't take the 7mm Standard Gauge bait just yet, ply him with doses of narrow gauge.

Same 16.5mm gauge as he's used to, but nice bigger models.... 😉👍🤣

[Captain Kernow]

10 hours ago, paulbb said:

Any Sheep Dip images from the show to titilate us with?