East Coast Main Line to Virgin Trains East Coast

[Bob M]

The point is you can change the TOC, you can change the colours, but will anything that really makes a difference actually change? I wouldn't expect them to sort out ride quality in a week.

 

Bob

[definate maybe]

I maybe the only one but I actually prefer the interim livery. Obviously the purple stripe would be replaced with a red one but there is something that doesn't quite work for me on the full livery. I think its mainly the sinister sharks mouth and the weird swirl.

Mark

[cravensdmufan]

I will really miss East Coast.  In my opinion it was a quality service which was making good money for the taxpayer rather than private shareholders.

 

I have travelled many times over the past three years on both WCML and ECML often upgrading to 1st Class.

 

Some comparisons:

 

Virgin WCML: Very cramped trains (often with a window pillar for a view!), woeful catering ("you want a snack box mate?!"), station staff wandering around in scruffy fleeces. And much more expensive walk on fares.

 

East Coast - Roomy Mk3 and Mk4 stock (room to stretch the legs), Nice hot meals on proper plates, smart looking staff in quality uniforms.

 

Very sorry to see it go.

[Phil Mc]

A few shots from today, some things reliveried, others not.

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[stewartingram]

I still think that the FS 91 puts the Virgin livery to shame.

 

Stewart

[Phil Mc]

It's clever how they designed the full Virgin livery on the 91's so that the dirt running down the bodyside looks like it's supposed to be there ! 

[cravensdmufan]

A few shots from today, some things reliveried, others not.

Good photos, thanks for posting.

 

But I still don't like anything about Virgin. The walk on fares are far from cheap and the livery doesn't make me cheerful!

 

Sorry!

[mjkerr]

I still don't like anything about Virgin. The walk on fares are far from cheap

Virgin don't have any say in these fares, compare other TOCs

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....In my opinion it was a quality service which was making good money for the taxpayer rather than private shareholders.

 

 

The return EC made was on the back of Zero investment.

If the projected outcomes are realised over the term of the new franchise, the new operator should be making significantly more money for the taxpayer, than under EC.

Not forgetting the investment requirements and pledges.

Profits and dividend returns for the private shareholders will be dwarfed by the return to the government.

 

Of course that is barring some economic catastrophe, or a GNER or NEX type failure to deliver on economic commitments.

 

.

[Derekstuart]

Sorry if this is political- it isn't meant to be, as there are other places to discuss the total balls up that was privatisation.

 

But we were told that the real reason for privatisation was to increase competition. Now with both North-South main lines operated by the one company, how is that the case?

 

One wonders if being awarded the ECML might have something to do with virgin's threat of suing the DfT for the last franchise eff up.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Sorry if this is political- it isn't meant to be, as there are other places to discuss the total balls up that was privatisation.

 

But we were told that the real reason for privatisation was to increase competition. Now with both North-South main lines operated by the one company, how is that the case?

 

One wonders if being awarded the ECML might have something to do with virgin's threat of suing the DfT for the last franchise eff up.

 

That issue was covered at length when the franchise was awarded to VTEC.

The competition issue is a red herring, as hardly any of the two routes traffic actually competes with the others.

[m0rris]

Agreed but it is also worth pointing out that the East Coast has plenty of internal competition with Grand Central and First Hull Trains providing services that East Coast operators have been unwilling to do and providing these services to some of the highest standards in the country.

[mjkerr]

The franchises are competing on three levels, and still do to this day

 

Level 1 -

Localised travel

 

Example A :

Glasgow - London

Passengers can choose between West Coast, East Coast, or combinations which include one or both of these two plus any other

 

Example B :

Glasgow - Edinburgh / Aberdeen - Edinburgh

Passengers can choose between ScotRail, Cross Country, East Coast, or combinations which include any one, two or all three

 

Level 2 -

Alternative transport

Passengers can choose between rail and other forms of transport for all or part of that journey

 

Level 3 -

The franchises are sold on a bid basis and performance (ie their profit or loss is based on that)

[Purley Oaks]

Just returned from a two-day trip to London by VTEC - all very good.

 

Slight change is that VTEC allowed us to board the return train (KX 1700) a full 25 minutes early which meant there was not the usual rush, much more leisurely and pleasant. EastCoast would not allow boarding until 10 or 15 minutes before departure which led to more people hanging around the concourse and a massive rush.

A change for the better imo.

 

Mal

[Bomag]

Just returned from a two-day trip to London by VTEC - all very good.

 

Slight change is that VTEC allowed us to board the return train (KX 1700) a full 25 minutes early which meant there was not the usual rush, much more leisurely and pleasant. EastCoast would not allow boarding until 10 or 15 minutes before departure which led to more people hanging around the concourse and a massive rush.

A change for the better imo.

 

Mal

 

Given the number of people firing up real-time trains website while walking into KX, plus being able to access platforms from the bridge, means that the option of feigning ignorance is not going to work as well as it did.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Bomag

[jamie92208]

Given the number of people fireing up real-time trains website at while walking into KX, plus being able to access platforms from the bridge, means that the option of feigning ignorance is not going to work as well as it did.

If they have sorted that problem at the Cross it will be a great start to the franchise.  It's been one of the my main bugbears for many years and hasn't changed regardless as to who was actually running the trains.

 

Jamie

[smiths park]

91.124 the Virgin liveried power car is no longer with its set. It's hooked up to a grey East Coast set.

[great central]

Just returned from a two-day trip to London by VTEC - all very good.

 

Slight change is that VTEC allowed us to board the return train (KX 1700) a full 25 minutes early which meant there was not the usual rush, much more leisurely and pleasant. EastCoast would not allow boarding until 10 or 15 minutes before departure which led to more people hanging around the concourse and a massive rush.

A change for the better imo.

 

Mal

 

There can be perfectly sound reasons that passengers are kept waiting, depending on turnround times. The train will have to be cleaned, re-stocked and new reservation labels placed on seats. It also depends on the time the train crew are allowed to do all this, they may also have a statutary break allowed. These kind of things are, I'll admit, an irritation but if you have 9 coaches to deal with, and then be checked it can take quite some time. As I say to people would they like the train clean and res lablels in place or just take their chances?

I know that it takes a minimum of 15 minutes to clean and label two coaches properly with two cleaners. If it's to be done faster, that'll mean more staff who have to come from somewhere

[Purley Oaks]

There can be perfectly sound reasons that passengers are kept waiting, depending on turnround times. The train will have to be cleaned, re-stocked and new reservation labels placed on seats. It also depends on the time the train crew are allowed to do all this, they may also have a statutary break allowed. These kind of things are, I'll admit, an irritation but if you have 9 coaches to deal with, and then be checked it can take quite some time. As I say to people would they like the train clean and res lablels in place or just take their chances?

Hi great central

Completely agree with you - and whether this was a one-off or not I don't know, but it felt like a good way to start a new franchise. Hope it continues

Mal

[The Stationmaster]

There can be perfectly sound reasons that passengers are kept waiting, depending on turnround times. The train will have to be cleaned, re-stocked and new reservation labels placed on seats. It also depends on the time the train crew are allowed to do all this, they may also have a statutary break allowed. These kind of things are, I'll admit, an irritation but if you have 9 coaches to deal with, and then be checked it can take quite some time. As I say to people would they like the train clean and res lablels in place or just take their chances?

I know that it takes a minimum of 15 minutes to clean and label two coaches properly with two cleaners. If it's to be done faster, that'll mean more staff who have to come from somewhere

But alas it has long been the situation at the Cross that fully prepared trains have remained sat in platforms when passengers could board but they are not allowed to (unless they have some means of slipping past a gate).  There are various reasons for this one of which is a train arriving at the opposite platform face where it makes good sense to separate the flows plus of course the matter of train servicing and preparation.  A staff of two doing cleaning and labelling strikes me as parsimony taken too far - the tasks are different and can be carried out independently and simultaneously, it is simply a matter of having enough folk to do the job with the right equipment.

 

Turning round a 9 coach train is not a major task however Rules of The Plan show many KX turnrounds to be allowed between 30 & 40 minutes (depending on the origin of the train although both Hull Trains and Grand Central can work on 20 minutes at certain times and under certain conditions).  Operators can of course exceed the minima (if platforming permits) but there is clearly time built in to allow for late running - which increases with the distance run - with a minimum of 30 minutes for an East Coast train.  That time has to include clearance of arriving passengers, cleaning and labelling, and entraining departing passengers and 30 minutes strikes me as quite generous for either an HST or a train formed with Mk4 stock, a similar amount is allowed at Paddington for an HST arriving from Swansea or west of Exeter but when we look more closely at turnround work content (and therefore a smaller allowance for incoming distance) only 20 minutes is allowed at Paddington for an HST from either Bristol or Cardiff and that, I think from past experience, gets much nearer the true work content for a train the size of an HST but it obviously depends on how the work is organised and manned.

 

As a matter of possible interest a full length, 18 coach, Eurostar set was allowed a minimum turnround time of 35 minutes at Waterloo and there was no difficulty in achieving it.  However I understand this has been increased at St Pancras - partly due to slower movement of detraining and entraining passengers so I've heard.

 

There is incidentally as far as I'm aware - no such thing as a 'statutory break' for traincrew - any break allowed, and its duration, depends entirely on what the particular operator has come up with on the basis of risk and human factors assessments although it is usual practice to make some sort of provision during longer shifts and in some cases to build in allowance for punctuality reliability.

[lmsforever]

I have found that Virgin WC to be a good service the trains are okay they work well (apart from toilet pong occasionally) the staff are attentive in both classes and the food in first is reasonable.The staff on stations do wear fleeces but so do many company staff and as to to East Coast sure they returned a lot of cash but they did not really invest in the franchise their stock is basically clapped out.The HST sets are well and truly worn out and the mk fours are tatty inside and will benefit from a refurb by Stagecoach but even then they wont be perfect ,the state run service was no more than a stop gap and would never have provided investment that is required to maintain a high standard.Unfortunately the new franchise seems to be mired by political jibes by bodies that want state micro control of everything in the UK .

[Richard E]

I had to chuckle tonight on VTEC on the way home. The guard came through to do his ticket inspection with a shoulder bag bearing a badge clearly displaying the GNER logo - nice one sir!

[96701]

I had to chuckle tonight on VTEC on the way home. The guard came through to do his ticket inspection with a shoulder bag bearing a badge clearly displaying the GNER logo - nice one sir!

An Inter City East Coast bag would have been better.

[westie7]

I've still got a GNER glass tumbler somewhere in my cupboard.

[31A]

I've got a cast crest off the side of a coach under the stairs!