Bachmann Hawksworth Autocoach

[Brian Kirby]

Brian, it is only a case of being more typical towards the end of autuo trail working circa 1963-4. In earlier times, the typical was carmine or maroon ends with or without lining, born out by dated photographs in six of my colour albums. 

Yes, i should have made it clearer, i meant typical at the time of the photos, i.e. the 1960s.

 

Whilst trawling through the Kirby Towers bookshelves, i've just found my long lost copy of the GWS's book "Auto Trains", published in June 1981. It creaked when i opened it, but straight away i've found a pic (albeit b&w) showing the rears of two Hawk.autos, clearly both maroon and lined, just like the Bachmann. This might be the same train that Larry found earlier, it's loco 6430 again, this time pushing past Horrabridge, on the way from Tavistock South to Plymouth (no date)? The book also states: "in 1954 W235W to W244W had bus type seats in green upholstery, following the style of the rebuilt W221W".   BK

Edited November 9, 2015 by Brian Kirby

[chrisf]

. Good excuse for a bog on Ellesmere North?

Stubby? ...

 

Chris

[David Bigcheeseplant]

"There is also a picture of W220W Thrush at Dulverton in November 1962 on page 13 of the book British Railways Western Region in colour by Laurence Walters where the seat cushions and seat backs look a bluey- grey colour. The chrome hand rails on the seat backs are clearly visible.​"

 

I think I am looking at the same photo in Great Western Coaches in Colour by Kevin Robertson and would say the seats in Thrush look a brown/grey. The seats in Thrush where high backed with headrests  and are quite visible through the windows there was also an additional bulkhead in the big saloon.

 

David

Edited November 10, 2015 by David Bigcheeseplant

[Budgie]

I had an enjoyable time yesterday running my newly-acquired lined maroon autocoach around my new layout. I was pushing it with one of my 64xx panniers, and to ensure there were no problems I coupled it to the loco using one of Bachmann's couplings that look like brake pipe hoses.

 

One thing I noticed and can't remember having seen on here is that the coach has all-wheel pickup. This should make fitting lights easy. I was also wondering if it is possible to fit a sound decoder into the coach, given that the space for such things in the loco is very limited.

[coachmann]

I had an enjoyable time yesterday running my newly-acquired lined maroon autocoach around my new layout. I was pushing it with one of my 64xx panniers, and to ensure there were no problems I coupled it to the loco using one of Bachmann's couplings that look like brake pipe hoses.

 

One thing I noticed and can't remember having seen on here is that the coach has all-wheel pickup. This should make fitting lights easy. I was also wondering if it is possible to fit a sound decoder into the coach, given that the space for such things in the loco is very limited.

The all-wheel pick is a good point. It is possible to have a semi-permanently attached loco and coach for more current collection.

[Budgie]

The all-wheel pick is a good point. It is possible to have a semi-permanently attached loco and coach for more current collection.

Or you could buy a set of 2-pole electric couplings (Viessmann 5048). Gaugemaster are selling these for £13 a pair, Conrad electronic has them for £11.

 

I bought several sets several years ago for £6.85. Maybe at last I'll get to use them.

[locoholic]

I've just bought a couple of these autocoaches from Hereford Models, & I'm surprised that no-one (unless I've missed it) has mentioned on here that when you look in through the windows the height of the floor makes it look like someone has emptied a barrel of evaporated milk into the coach. The floor height seems very high, and the light colour of the floor accentuates the effect. I shall have to paint the floor to tone it down, which means I have to dismantle the most expensive RTR coach I've ever bought. I shall also put some passengers in, to help disguise the floor height.

[Douglas G]

"There is also a picture of W220W Thrush at Dulverton in November 1962 on page 13 of the book British Railways Western Region in colour by Laurence Walters where the seat cushions and seat backs look a bluey- grey colour. The chrome hand rails on the seat backs are clearly visible.​"

 

I think I am looking at the same photo in Great Western Coaches in Colour by Kevin Robertson and would say the seats in Thrush look a brown/grey. The seats in Thrush where high backed with headrests  and are quite visible through the windows there was also an additional bulkhead in the big saloon.

 

David

Hi David,

 

I have the Kevin Robertson book and it is the same photo as in the Laurence Walters book. However, the colour reproduction is very different—even though both books are printed in England by by Ian Allan. The print in the Robertson book has much less definition and has a definite reddish tinge, particular the shadows inside the coach. As the driving end is nearest the camera, it is the seat backs you can see with the nearest seats; they have a prominent horizontal chrome rail, presumably to give passengers something to hold on to given the tall seat backs and headrests. However, above the T of Thrush in the photo you can see a seat facing forward, which in the Waters book definitely looks a grey colour with a tinge of blue or green to it. It is a shame it is not possible to scan it in, for copyright reasons...

 

Another source of evidence is the book Great Western Coaches by Michael Harris. This states that when Thrush was internally renovated in 1952, it was given "diesel railcar type metal-framed seats upholstered in deep green striped material". I am guessing by 1962 the seats may have faded to look more of a grey colour, especially when viewed at a distance through the windows.

 

When I do a model of Thrush based on the forthcoming Farish N gauge version,I will use something like Humbrol 31, with some white added, for the seat fabric.

 

For the coaches in the 1954 second batch, numbers 235-244, the Exe Valley Line film and Peter Grays photos suggest to me light blue-grey colour is the best representation of the fabric as seen from a distance. I am not sure if it is permissible to do a screen grab from the DVD to post it here?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Douglas G

[chrisf]

I've just bought a couple of these autocoaches from Hereford Models, & I'm surprised that no-one (unless I've missed it) has mentioned on here that when you look in through the windows the height of the floor makes it look like someone has emptied a barrel of evaporated milk into the coach. The floor height seems very high, and the light colour of the floor accentuates the effect. I shall have to paint the floor to tone it down, which means I have to dismantle the most expensive RTR coach I've ever bought. I shall also put some passengers in, to help disguise the floor height.

 

I don't suppose this was mentioned in any of the reviews?

 

Chris

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Here is a couple of screen shots of Thrush It does seem the seats are green. 

 

I would be interested to see a screen shot showing blue seats, we know red seats where used as per my previous post.

 

David

[figworthy]

One thing I noticed and can't remember having seen on here is that the coach has all-wheel pickup. This should make fitting lights easy. I was also wondering if it is possible to fit a sound decoder into the coach, given that the space for such things in the loco is very limited.

 

At Railex this year, Lionheart had a 7mm auto coach and loco (I can't remember if it was a 14xx or a pannier).  They were using a sound chip that covered the auto coach as well as the loco.

 

Adrian

[locoholic]

Whilst my initial impression of the autocoach exterior was very favourable, the bright, shiny interior was extremely offputting, and demanded attention.

 

After nearly levering my thumbnails off, I managed to dismantle the coaches, without (as far as I'm aware) snapping any of the fine detail on the underframe off.

 

 

The plastic sandwich that makes up the floor is very nearly 4mm thick, which must account for the abbreviated representation of the seats.

 

I opted for muddy lino for the floor, and a wash of matt grot on the seats, to take off the glossy plastic shine and cut down on the light reflecting around inside the coach. To be honest, worrying about which colour cloth was used for the upholstery seems pretty irrelevant when the floor height in the coach is nearly a scale foot too high, and there are big, highly visible, slots in the floor.

 

 

The plastic passengers all had to have their legs amputated at ankle height. The prominent slots in the floor at each end of the coach are to accommodate the metal contacts. The slots were very noticeable when I first bought the coaches, and as the pickups don't do anything, this aspect of the design is quite baffling, having added to the price and detracted from the appearance of the model.

 

 

Once the coach is reassembled, the interior no longer catches the eye, especially if passengers are used to distract from the slots in the floor. Bachmann are to be congratulated on producing a fine model which, however, needs to be weathered on the inside - is this a first?!

 

 

[gwrrob]

Where do you put your nails to lever the body off please.

[Douglas G]

Here is a couple of screen shots of Thrush It does seem the seats are green. 

 

I would be interested to see a screen shot showing blue seats, we know red seats where used as per my previous post.

 

David

 

Hi David,

 

This is the best I can do at the moment - it gives the general idea.

 

 

It doesn't look like the high back type of seat shown in the picture of Thrush W220W on page 291 of Part 2 of the Lewis GW Auto Trailer book, but does look like the "bus" type of seat shown in the interior of W239W shown on page 293 of the same book.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Douglas G

[Market65]

Where do you put your nails to lever the body off please.

That is a good question, although I will be using old credit cards on mine when removing the body.

[dibber25]

Where do you put your nails to lever the body off please.

From memory (I don't have the review sample here) there's an instruction sheet which made body removal sound straightforward, although I haven't tried it yet. I find slices of old cards - AA membership, B&Q senior citizens etc - to be better than finger nails. (CJL)

[locoholic]

There are four catches on each side of the coach. You can see them best on the middle photo. The ones at the ends are the hardest to disengage, as the footboards get in the way. You just have to slide your thumbnails along the undersides of the coach body, trying to get enough of a grip on the underframe without snapping anything off - it's not easy, by any means. The catches do make an audible click when they let go, but they tend to click back again. It took me ages to get the first coach apart.

[Brian Kirby]

I do have a 4th Hawk. auto, built it donkey's years ago and i finished it in plain maroon, which has worked out well, now i have all the main liveries. It's numbered as W232W with maroon ends, as depicted in John Lewis's "GW Autocoaches Vol.2", seen at Oxford in the early 60s. Now here's a little test, can anyone regognize what kit it's built from? 

Is it:(1) a Comet kit?

       (2) a Westdale kit?

       (3) a MTK kit

       (4) something else?  

Clue: The person who produced this kit has been on this thread. (Weren't me Guv)     BK

 

       

       

[Market65]

I bet I end up breaking at least one of the catches!

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[chrisf]

I do have a 4th Hawk. auto, built it donkey's years ago and i finished it in plain maroon, which has worked out well, now i have all the main liveries. It's numbered as W232W with maroon ends, as depicted in John Lewis's "GW Autocoaches Vol.2", seen at Oxford in the early 60s. Now here's a little test, can anyone regognize what kit it's built from? 

Is it:(1) a Comet kit?

       (2) a Westdale kit?

       (3) a MTK kit

       (4) something else?  

Clue: The person who produced this kit has been on this thread. (Weren't me Guv)     BK

 

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Chris Leigh.  I do believe I have one somewhere.

 

Chris

[Brian Kirby]

Chris Leigh.  I do believe I have one somewhere.

 

Chris

Yes, well done Chris, go to the top of the class. I built it about twenty years ago, i seem to recall you could either use the parts as a total scratchbuild, or add the sides to a donor Airfix autocoach, what you see is the latter with substitute Bachmann bogies. Not the best etches in the world, crude in places, in fact i only used 90% of the sides (!), the etched guard's van doors were rhombic in shape, so i retained the Airfix double doors and rebated the main sides to blend in flush. I also had to enlarge the cab windows, they were deeper on the Hawksworths.

                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

[dibber25]

Yes, well done Chris, go to the top of the class. I built it about twenty years ago, i seem to recall you could either use the parts as a total scratchbuild, or add the sides to a donor Airfix autocoach, what you see is the latter with substitute Bachmann bogies. Not the best etches in the world, crude in places, in fact i only used 90% of the sides (!), the etched guard's van doors were rhombic in shape, so i retained the Airfix double doors and rebated the main sides to blend in flush. I also had to enlarge the cab windows, they were deeper on the Hawksworths.

                                                                                                  Cheers, Brian.

I didn't recognise it! Looks a lot better than it should. For me, the only give away that it's one of mine is the radius on the corners of the windows. I think mine were too big and I wondered initially, if Bachmann's were too small. My artwork was taken from a BR drawing (which originated with John and Tony of Mopok - they decided not to do the autocoach in their kits and gave me the drawing). From memory (I don't think I still have it) it was probably a GA but most small scale railway drawings especially GAs are not reliable, particularly on matters of detail. My etches were pretty horrible. I hadn't intended the artwork to be used as supplied but once the etchers had it, they made the negs and charged me, and I could not afford to have it re-made. There were extras on the edge of the etch (which I usually cut off) including a bench seat based on those carried by the Titanic. I never built one using the Airfix as a donor, although that was certainly what I intended. I built mine onto a Comet under frame and used the pre-formed ally roof which I got the chap from BSL coaches to make for me. He made me a second batch, not long before he died, and I still have several of them kicking around in my shed. (CJL)

[locoholic]

I forgot to mention that I had intended to put a driver in the cab on the autocoach. There's a good photo on p57 of On Great Western Lines by Roy Hobbs, which seems to show the driver sitting down. Was there a seat in the driving compartment? I tried putting a seated driver from the Bachmann 1950s loco crew set in, but it didn't look right. Any suggestions for a figure that's in roughly the correct pose, & what about a seat?

[Douglas G]

From memory (I don't think I still have it) it was probably a GA but most small scale railway drawings especially GAs are not reliable, particularly on matters of detail.

 

Indeed— it is not just detail, Chris.

 

The BR drawings of the different diagrams that I got copies of years ago from Swindon Railway Museum, and which were more recently published in the GWR Auto Trailers book, show the spacing of the side windows at either end VERY differently from how they were in the coaches as actually built, as I found when I did a scratch-built 2mm model a long time ago. I had to use distant side view photos in books and the pictures I took of a trailer at Didcot to get the window spacing right.

 

I discussed this with Colin Albright when he was putting together the excellent Ultima 2mm kit of these Hawksworth autocoaches. He would no doubt have used his research and knowledge when he had moved to Bachmann as Chief Design Engineer and the Bachmann models were being designed.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Douglas G

[K14]

I forgot to mention that I had intended to put a driver in the cab on the autocoach. There's a good photo on p57 of On Great Western Lines by Roy Hobbs, which seems to show the driver sitting down. Was there a seat in the driving compartment? I tried putting a seated driver from the Bachmann 1950s loco crew set in, but it didn't look right. Any suggestions for a figure that's in roughly the correct pose, & what about a seat?

 

There certainly was a bijou seatette:—

 

 

Note: The apparent white line on the droplight isn't all it may seem - it's actually a safety rail on top of the electric supply room behind.

 

Pose? From the scars on the wall in W231, in such a position that he could kick the wall with his heel & probably with a Wild Woodbine on the go as well if the contents of the flag holder were anything to go by!

 

Pete S.