AMJ Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 See news item on BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31721334 The UK government has announced that it is selling its 40% stake in the cross-Channel train operator Eurostar to an Anglo-Canadian consortium for £757.1m. Under the deal, Patina Rail LLP will acquire the UK Treasury's entire share of the high-speed rail service. The French and Belgian national railways continue to own the rest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2015 See news item on BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31721334 The UK government has announced that it is selling its 40% stake in the cross-Channel train operator Eurostar to an Anglo-Canadian consortium for £757.1m. Under the deal, Patina Rail LLP will acquire the UK Treasury's entire share of the high-speed rail service. The French and Belgian national railways continue to own the rest And SNCF/SNCB still have the option to buy but at 15% above the offered price. If I were an investor the only thing which would worry me is putting my money into something which is run very much in the SNCF culture even if they do use as a way of finding out how to run a more progressive sort of railway. The SNCF influence dealt with Branson in pretty stark and rapid terms (reputedly leaving Virgin with a large quantity of red paint on their hands) and certainly put off some of the other various UK partners in the succession of joint ventures so if my money was going in there I'd certainly look for a big say in how things can be developed commercially although I understand that cost controls haven't necessarily sunk entirely to SNCF levels. But at least SNCB are in there as well which is probably a good thing overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2015 An Anglo-Canadian consortium eh? Can we look forward to an Atlantic Tunnel with regular visits from the Nightstar stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 As it is a French-Canadian company communication should be no problem......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Before this was announced I had heard of DB putting their hat into the ring for the 'UK' share of the business. However I believe DB are still looking to run London to Koln trains using modrn ICE stock. We keep hearing mutterings about through trains to Amsterdm and Koln but have as yet to see any, probably when there are enough of the new train sets available. These would make my trips to Germany and Netherlands much easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2015 As it is a French-Canadian company communication should be no problem......... From what I saw in the past i would think that French folk of the SNCF variety would not be at all likely to get on with French folk of the Canadian variety. And similarly the very few I met of the Canadian French variety who knew anything about it seemed to have a very low opinion of SNCF (but then so did most other folk with a business or railway management background!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 From what I saw in the past i would think that French folk of the SNCF variety would not be at all likely to get on with French folk of the Canadian variety. And similarly the very few I met of the Canadian French variety who knew anything about it seemed to have a very low opinion of SNCF (but then so did most other folk with a business or railway management background!). The old phrase - "Two peoples divided by a common language" - springs to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm surprised that we still have something to sell Cheers, Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm surprised that we still have something to sell Cheers, Bob. Yes after the "family silver" and the gold reserves fiascoes, UK plc appear to have become dealers in ferrous scrap metal (main office: Oil Drum Lane, W12). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The old phrase - "Two peoples divided by a common language" - springs to mind. I think that the differences between Quebecois and French are probably worse than the differences between English and Colonial English. It won't matter much, though. The CDPQ is really just an investment fund - it manages the Quebec public pension plan. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 We should be re-nationalizing most if not all of the once public assets Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 We should be re-nationalizing most if not all of the once public assets So the railways should revert to being fully private companies then? Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekl Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I cannot see that the sale will make any difference to the day-to-day running of Eurostar, although it may have an effect on long term planning. There are two takes on this (not in order of merit): 1. The UK government through BR and later LCR provided "seed capital" to run the service (with SNCF & SNCB) and supported it over a pretty ropey period - it never met traffic forecasts and I think still does not. Whether it does or not, it is clearly now sufficiently profitable to attract what appears to be a fairly good return - the sale price exceeds expectations substantially (although it might be quite interesting to know what it has cost to date - it was not profitable in the earlier years and must have had subsidy). Now that it is profitable, UK government sells and recovers the capital investment, to be used to do similar in the next project. It has to be said that George Osborne mentioned reducing the deficit rather than re-investment (although he did mention that). If the capital recovered is to fund (say) HS2, there is an argument. If it is to secure Mr Osborne's political need to reduce the deficit, perhaps less so. 2. The UK government has invested in the service and supported it through the difficult years (as above): it appears that it is now sufficiently profitable to attract investor interest but that also means a return on capital investment - clearly a short term capital gain (which it may not really be - see above on the cost of subsidy to date), but now that it is profitable, is it better to sell off for capital gain now or retain for the benefit of the longer term profits? Additionally, this is a major infrastructure resource (the trains and the level of service - the track and tunnel are seperate) into which UK government might want an input, any influence on which is being sold. SNCF and SNCB may take the view that they do not want or need to sell this sort of asset - it may also be that they take the view that they prefer to retain control over an asset which should be used in the public interest, which may not necessarily be the same as Canadian and UK pension funds. Oh well, you take your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 We should be re-nationalizing most if not all of the once public assets Yeah, let's start with the USA So the railways should revert to being fully private companies then? Adrian That's not what he said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2015 See news item on BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31721334 The UK government has announced that it is selling its 40% stake in the cross-Channel train operator Eurostar to an Anglo-Canadian consortium for £757.1m. Under the deal, Patina Rail LLP will acquire the UK Treasury's entire share of the high-speed rail service. The French and Belgian national railways continue to own the rest £757m. Nearly as expensive as Bachmann! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2015 Unfortunately its sales like this that only confirm my opinion that UK Governments are only interested in the short term. While it is true that passenger numbers have never lived up to those predicted at the time tunnel construction began (and I have a suspicion that said numbers were as high as they were to attract the necessary private investment in the tunnel a certain M Thatcher demanded as a condition for it going ahead in the first place) it is important to note that patronage has been rising steadily over the years and shows no sign of slowing dramatically in the future. This has allowed Eurostar to become a profitable operation which gives reasonable (if not spectacular) profits back to its shareholders with no expectations that this will not continue to be the case going forward. It speaks volumes that rather than be satisfied with a continual revenue stream for many years to come, in true Thatcherite tradition, the current government is obsessed with selling it off now for windfall for the Treasury cheered on by its usual friends in the City (who will no doubt already be looking at how they can increase their investment). Short term its great plan the Treasury gets a large wad of money and George can pay off a tiny bit of our debts, but long term (over 20 years say) said Treasury actually becomes proper because given enough time that original sale figure will be overtaken by the accumulated dividends paid out year on year by Eurostar to its shareholders. While it is very true that Government run enterprises don't tend to shine - if you unshackle them from Treasury / micromanagement by Westminster or enter into a partnership with the private sector - as is the case with lots of top performing European companies (e.g. 60% private 40% state) then many of them will over the years contribute far more to the exchequer than a total privatisation so beloved by a certain party and its supporters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 So the railways should revert to being fully private companies then? Adrian NO......is that clearer for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well a few months have passed by and the sale of the UK Treasuries shares went through. The Canadian led consortium who purchased the UK's share of the Eurostar TOC appear to only regard their shareholding as an investment and have no interest in getting involved with the running of the company. As such, an agreement has been reached allowing SNCF to take complete control of Eurostar, with the other shareholders (inc. SNCB) being effectively, sleeping partners. The European Commission have just approved these arrangements. Eurostar International continues as a stand-alone autonomous company, but their management team is now under the direct control of SNCF. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/high-speed/single-view/view/european-commission-approves-sncf-control-of-eurostar.html http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4976_en.htm . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Surprise, surprise. Napoleon would have loved it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 £757m. Nearly as expensive as Bachmann! Nevertheless, it should pay MP's expenses for another 12 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2015 Well a few months have passed by and the sale of the UK Treasuries shares went through. The Canadian led consortium who purchased the UK's share of the Eurostar TOC appear to only regard their shareholding as an investment and have no interest in getting involved with the running of the company. As such, an agreement has been reached allowing SNCF to take complete control of Eurostar, with the other shareholders (inc. SNCB) being effectively, sleeping partners. The European Commission have just approved these arrangements. Eurostar International continues as a stand-alone autonomous company, but their management team is now under the direct control of SNCF. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/high-speed/single-view/view/european-commission-approves-sncf-control-of-eurostar.html http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4976_en.htm . No change there then (the company having effectively been under the control of parachuted-in SNCF managers for some time past with many things changing to being done in 'the SNCF way') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Quite ironic really seeing as the Governor of the Bank of England is a Canadian ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 .....under the control of parachuted-in SNCF managers for some time past with many things changing to being done in 'the SNCF way') Mmmmm? As a stand-alone, profit making commercial company, that raises its own finance; is that in "the SNCF way" then? Incidentally the board (12 members) only has 3 SNCF members. The CEO and two non-executive directors. The Senior management team (9 listed on the web site), again has the CEO and 2 ex-SNCF members (and one of those had left SNCF and worked for Keolis, prior to joining Eurostar). . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Is the SNCF way better than the British way then? Are we to see more strikes on E*, blockades of HS1 at Dollonds Moor when the port workers at Calais drop the anchor for a day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 14, 2015 Mmmmm? As a stand-alone, profit making commercial company, that raises its own finance; is that in "the SNCF way" then? Incidentally the board (12 members) only has 3 SNCF members. The CEO and two non-executive directors. The Senior management team (9 listed on the web site), again has the CEO and 2 ex-SNCF members (and one of those had left SNCF and worked for Keolis, prior to joining Eurostar). . I think the French are using the 'stand-alone profit making bit' as a training ground for senior managers But whatever the board make up the day-to-day management process has become increasingly 'SNCFified' over recent years - but then SNCF always saw it as basically a sort of TGV route (branchline?) to London. Good job they don't still run to Waterloo or that would definitely be down for renaming if some senior SNCF folk were to get their way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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