Andybrwn7 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Good evening, Due to being semi-new to railway modelling, the reason being semi new is I inherited my dad's n gauge models just before he died. I have seen different software available to design a layout. My question is which one do members recommend to use? Also which is the best track to use?. I know I maybe asking a lot of questions over the next few weeks but any advice is appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted March 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ive just used something called scarm and it takes a little getting used to but its well worth a look, it even has all of the Hornby set track in its library as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loickebros Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I use Anyrail. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Tried Scarm bought Anyrail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_polo Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I would recommend Scarm, it's quite easy to use! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted March 11, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2015 This has been debated often on here, and there is no consensus - different people get on well with different systems. There is a SCARM thread run by the designer in the "Layout and Track Design" section under "Skills & Knowledge Centre", but my vote (only 'cos I've learned how to use it) goes to XTrackCad - downloadable free from this link: http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Started with XtrkCAD. Don't bother - just download SCARM. It really is the best one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I use Anyrail. Dave Thank you for the 'heads up'. I have used Templot but it is outrageously unfriendly. I have bookmarked Anyrail and I'll look into it later. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I normally use Templot, but used SCARM for Ingletyme as it uses Peco track, and found it pretty straightforward, at least for a small layout. I didn't bother to try any other software though, as it was just for a one-off design. I'm back to Templot for EM, and P4 standard broad gauge, now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2015 Started with XtrkCAD. Don't bother - just download SCARM. It really is the best one. You mean it's the one you like best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 I have used Templot but it is outrageously unfriendly. I have bookmarked Anyrail and I'll look into it later. That's a matter of opinion -- Templot is rather like Marmite to some folks. What is a matter of fact though is that Templot and AnyRail are not alternatives. The download page for Templot has this notice, although it often seems that few visitors read it: I have posted this information several time on RMweb but here it is again: Templot is for designing handbuilt track. Templot is TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for commercial ready-made track such as Peco, etc. It is not surprising that you have found it "outrageously unfriendly" if you have tried to use it for something for which it is not intended and does not work. PLEASE DO NOT USE TEMPLOT FOR PECO TRACK. For Peco track and similar use AnyRail, SCARM, 3rd PlanIt, CadRail, XTrackCad, Winrail, or any of several others but please not Templot. On the other hand none of those are of much use in creating construction templates or layouts for handbuilt track. If you don't like Templot the alternatives for handbuilt track are Trax3 and S21. Apologies for the bold stuff but I have tried so many times to get this point across. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Started with XtrkCAD many years ago - have tried all the rest WinRail, AnyRail, SCARM ... even Templot Still use XtrkCAD! - which may say something. But they are all different and some more complex than others. Perhaps Templot is really in a different league. However, I have found it quite difficult to get to use - it has far more bells and whistles than the rest (most of which can seem a bit clunky in comparison) a very steep learning curve. It probably depends more on what you want from the software and how quickly you want it. The same statement could be said of your track question. You are not just limited to Peco/Hornby anymore but it depends on what you want of the track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 ... Templot is for designing handbuilt track. Templot is TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for commercial ready-made track such as Peco, etc. It is not surprising that you have found it "outrageously unfriendly" if you have tried to use it for something for which it is not intended and does not work. ... It was my intention to use Templot to produce templates to use as a tool to produce hand made track. I wouldn't touch Peco etc with a bargepole. No amount of shouting on your part will disguise the fact that your product is very unfriendly and is therefore unfit for purpose. During my career I was a Business Analyst and Acceptance Test Manager for 15 years so I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to specifying and testing software applications. I think Templot is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of software I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that Templot would or could have passed any professional testing regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 It was my intention to use Templot to produce templates to use as a tool to produce hand made track. I wouldn't touch Peco etc with a bargepole. No amount of shouting on your part will disguise the fact that your product is very unfriendly and is therefore unfit for purpose. During my career I was a Business Analyst and Acceptance Test Manager for 15 years so I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to specifying and testing software applications. I think Templot is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of software I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that Templot would or could have passed any professional testing regime. Templot is my own software, created for my own use, the way I want it. It is available for anyone else to use free of charge if they like it, or not if they don't. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think Templot is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of software I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that Templot would or could have passed any professional testing regime. Really? In 15 years? Templot isn't even the worst software I've seen this week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think Templot is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of software I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that Templot would or could have passed any professional testing regime.If you think Templot is bad you should try some of the other offerings. Even some of the commercial rubbish that gets foisted on the public. Most, if not all, software is bad and has serious flaws. But also in most cases it was designed that way and then added to as the specification changes and the highly documented coding is adapted and changed by later programmers who have their own ideas on what the customer/user actually wants. Or use the bloated sticking plaster approach - instead of fixing the fault they just work round it. Concise coding no longer exists and programmers are made lazy by the fact we all have machines with large memory and fast processors. Apple/Microsoft/Google/Oracle all the big players are just as much to blame. I have just updated the itunes software (what the hell do I want with a compulsory apple watch App?) and yet another tranche of Microsoft bug fixes. All I seem to do these days is to be downloading the next round of bugs disguised as excuses. I'm not a fan of Templot (as I indicated above) and yes it is very difficult to use as a new user. But like the other available offerings it works sufficiently well to be popular in the absence of anything better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 No amount of shouting on your part will disguise the fact that your product is very unfriendly and is therefore unfit for purpose. You may think you know what you are talking about, but whilst the first part of your statement might be true (at least from your point of view) the second is clearly not true because hundreds of people - including me - are quite able to make Templot produce some fabulous results. That means it is fit for purpose in my definition. I have to say that I agree with 30801 above - you need to get out a bit more if Templot is the worst you have come across. I too, could get in a tizz that some of the user interface is not that convenient, or that some menu lists would be better as dialogues, or that the documentation could be easier to use - but then I could equally say that about AutoCAD (which costs the best part of five Grand) or Office 2015, or Lotus Notes or... - have you tried using Office "Help"? Now that really is unfit for purpose. I would be happier if you put some effort into getting your head round it before slagging it off to the world at large. Despite what you say, it is perfectly fit for its purpose - I know because I, apparently unlike you, actually use it. Now I am going to rule myself "off-topic" because Templot is NOT what this thread is about - as Martin pointed out. But, since you are clearly such a professional, perhaps you would care to share with us the name of the template design software you have selected to use instead - perhaps even that which you have written yourself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 I too, could get in a tizz that some of the user interface is not that convenient, or that some menu lists would be better as dialogues, or that the documentation could be easier to use Hi Howard, Thanks for your comments. I am as aware as anyone of Templot's shortcomings. Most of them are there for a reason -- mostly lack of time on my part. Templot is the product of one man in his spare time, not a global software corporation. For example I know and always have known that the complex menu structure would be better as dialogs and property sheets. But those things require an order of magnitude more programming effort than the drop-down self-clearing menus. Also in the days of Windows95/98 they consumed far more of the system resources than the menu system. I'm hoping to convert some of the more extended menus to dialogs before too long. Also to update all the Help docs and videos to the latest Templot version. What it all boils down to is that Templot is a work-in-progress, and unless I spend every waking moment on it for the next few years, it is likely to remain that way for ever. For example you might be interested in what I have been working on this week: 1. I fixed a bug related to the foot lines for flat-bottom rail. 2. I added a new option for centre-line-only track templates to be drawn in the style of the background shapes when used as dummy templates. They are often used as such to represent curving baseboard edges and other structures. This option will make them more prominent and their meaning clear. 3. I made sure that all modal dialogs can be escaped via the keyboard when running under Wine on Linux systems. 4. I added a startup warning note about modal dialogs, visible only when running under Wine. 5. Last evening and today I am working to improve the editor interface for the formatted text blocks on the sketchboard. The existing arrangement is clunky, and the inserted metafiles do not edit/update correctly if they have been rotated. (Rotating a metafile item on the sketchboard causes it to be rendered as a bitmap.) 6. I made another change, but I have now forgotten what it was -- that's another reason for the slow progress, the grey cells are dying fast these days. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 During my career I was a Business Analyst and Acceptance Test Manager for 15 years so I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to specifying and testing software applications. I think Templot is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of software I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that Templot would or could have passed any professional testing regime. OK. specify the software to do the job that Templot does (or doesn't, in your opinion). You're the expert - you tell Martin Wynne what he should be doing. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 You're the expert - you tell Martin Wynne what he should be doing. Yes please. Constructive Templot feedback and suggestions always very welcome. Short of starting again with a blank sheet. Which may be the best solution, but in which case it won't be me doing it. Over to someone else to have a go. This has wandered off-topic for the OP -- I have started a linked topic over on Templot Club if anyone wants to continue with this: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2650&forum_id=1 regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hi Howard, Thanks for your comments. I am as aware as anyone of Templot's shortcomings. Most of them are there for a reason -- You are very welcome Martin. But what I SHOULD have said is.. I COULD get in a tizz... but I prefer to just get on with it. Here is something I have been working on a with a friend just this last couple of days:- Maybe we are not too off topic - that looks like a pretty good way of designing a layout to me! But it is still not right - anyone got a 40 inch drawing of Newhaven Harbour they could let us have? :-) Best wishes Martin and keep up the excellent work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It's a case of "horses for courses". As I like to design and build complicated track formations that I could never afford to buy, I use Templot. It takes some effort to get the hang of it, but that's because it is a very powerful tool - not only that, it's very robust and it's even free! (Thanks Martin.) However, unless you want to create templates to build your own track and turnouts, Templot is probably not the tool for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hello, I think that for those that would rather find fault with things, and are not very capable, or cant make an effort should maybe try this product.http://www.brio.net/Products/railway trustytrev. :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hello, I think that for those that would rather find fault with things, and are not very capable, or cant make an effort should maybe try this product.http://www.brio.net/Products/railway trustytrev. I wish I'd known about that before Christmas, when I bought the Peco track for Ingletyme! It was easy designing the layout in SCARM, but having to attach point motors and solder wires all over the place before I stick it down is a real pain. I've just stopped for a break to recover my sanity! It was so much easier when I just layed handbuilt track and soldered wires to the top of the copper clad sleepers in discrete places later! Maybe Brio would have been far easier! I find Templot difficult and frustrating, because I don't use it much. Just as I get annoyed by GIMP, and Photoshop when I used to use it, and am now getting frustrated by upgrading from Pinnacle Studio 9 to 18. If I used it a lot I'd remember my way round it, but as I don't, I forget most of it and have to pretty much start again. But much as I'd like Templot completely rewritten in a way that makes it simple to use, I appreciate that Martin has done a brilliant job all on his own, and producing a really straightforward version is far too much to hope for. So I'm happy to live with it. I'd rather Martin added the ability to produce mixed gauge baulk road than spent loads of time making it more user friendly . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 No amount of shouting on my part will disguise the fact that my post is very unfriendly and is therefore unfit for purpose. During my career I was a Business Analyst and Acceptance Test Manager for 15 years so I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to specifying and testing software applications. I think my post is one of the worst, if not quite the worst, piece of I've ever come across and there is no way, absolutely no way, that I would or could have passed any professional testing regime. Fixed that for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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