Fay Sets the Pace Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) There are a number of pictures in today's Engine shed blog only one of which is actually stated as being a teaser for something from the 2017 range... Assuming that the picture shows a top down view of the back of the cab and coal bunker of a tank locomotive, then the two features that stand out are the raised lip along the back of the cab roof and the row of rivets either side of the metal seam in the cab roof, which, using the handly placed ruler, are about 1.10m from the back of the cab. This distance is almost the same as the trailing wheel diameter of the Wainwright H (of 3 ft 7 in). This picture (linked below) shows the only preserved Wainwright H, no. 263, with the raised roof lip and a roof seam the same distance from the back of the cab as the diameter of the trailing wheels, so I will go with the Wainwright H. But how and when will Hornby tell us for sure, though, Graham? https://nick86235.smugmug.com/Trains/2013/Spring-2013/i-cDBwKfN/0/XL/20130328_15-XL.jpg Edited December 13, 2015 by Fay Sets the Pace 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 There's more evidence to show it's a SECR H Class. Have a look at the images below... Hornby image (The TEASER) https://admin.Hornby.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Out-and-about-in-December-2015.jpg Images found on Google (Credits to the photographer) https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/052-2015-bluebell-railway-sheffield-park-south-eastern-and-chatham-railway-h-class-263.jpg https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/051-2015-bluebell-railway-sheffield-park-south-eastern-and-chatham-railway-h-class-263.jpg Can clearly see the lip (actually more like an L shaped piece) on the edge which has a row of rivets on it and also just beside it. Secondly there is a double row of rivets that runs along the centre of the roof. That can also be seen. And if you judge the size of Paul measuring the loco to the cab door on the loco. It also seems quite similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) There may be some credibility to this being the roof the H Class but here is a picture of the same roof during the recent overhaul. I remain to be convinced...... http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_news/oh_263.html Look at photo near the bottom for January 2010. Edited December 13, 2015 by ndg910 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The one thing I don't get, is why they need to scan another GW prototype. They are all the same, surely...? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2015 Why bother? It's academic now. But roughly two years from the decision that it is to be produced to the model going on sale, (if the intended release date is achieved) feels like brisk progress. Seen plenty of models undoubtedly in development by evidence of 3D prints and the like, for three, and four, and more, years. Although, given the introduction rate demonstrated by Hornby over the past eighteen months, there is a 'warning shot' in there. Consider that there will very likely have been a matching decision point in mid 2015 for the 2017 range introductions, and mostly likely in six months time another decision point for the 2018 range introductions; in order to keep the new introduction 'pipeline' filled. Hornby have pretty certainly been looking at the wishlisting - or it is an amazing coincidence just how many of the consistently most heavily voted for subjects are turning up in their range! - so for any competitor looking at a much requested subject, there's an indication of the speed required to get any potential duplicate out before Hornby have it on sale. The big difference with Hornby, and now seemingly working very much in their favour, is that they have in-house design (although I don't know if they do the CADs?) and access to a number of decent factories most of which are probably eager to find work and a steady income stream, plus although they are carrying a lot of debt they do have access to capital. This means they can get through the development stages and up to production fairly briskly provided the factories can do their part. Where they seem to have a problem - which is not unique to them by any means - is in getting production schedules right/hitting agreed production slots with signed off final decoration samples. It might not be down to them and could be a manufacturers' problem but that bit, and delivery dates to the UK, seems to be where things could be far better organised and is where management attention is needed. By contrast Bachmann - also with UK based design but a lot of the work (including CADs?) done in a single factory in China - have to take their place among Kader's other ranges and if, say, a decorated sample needs a re-work then pre-booked production slots are lost and releases are delayed. Plus there has reportedly been a design backlog in China. The other manufacturers face all the same sort of hurdles but either have to get credit with the factories or pay by stages as work progresses and the latter demands working capital (often fed purely by sales of the previous model) hence things can be delayed for far more than just technical reasons although as we have seen where the prototype isn't available to scan or drawings don't exist the research stage can also take a long time, and of course costs money which is not showing any return. Ideally then to turn round fairly quickly you need lots of working capital, good research backing (which can cost a lot), a good factory (they exist) especially one able to get it right first time with CADs, EPs and decoration samples, and a workable schedule that allows for all potential delays in order to hit the pre-agreed production slot. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2015 The big difference with Hornby, and now seemingly working very much in their favour, is that they have in-house design (although I don't know if they do the CADs?) and access to a number of decent factories most of which are probably eager to find work and a steady income stream, plus although they are carrying a lot of debt they do have access to capital. This means they can get through the development stages and up to production fairly briskly provided the factories can do their part. I listened to the Hornby presentation at Warley which was given by the gentleman in the first picture on this month's 'Engine Shed' together with design engineer (?) and sales colleagues, which was very informative. From what they said it sounds as though they do do the CADs in house - they mentioned the software that they use. I think the slide in the presentation said it took 2 - 2.5 years for a model to be completed from start of research to being on sale, although I think he actually used words to the effect of 'up to three years'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Sets the Pace Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) ndg910's link includes a photo (link below) of the cab roof of the Wainwright H nos. 263 being painted at the Bluebell Railway in January 2010. To my mind it looks pretty convincing that the new model is the Wainwright H, which makes me very happy. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_news/10/263_cabroof_derekh_24jan10.jpg Edited December 14, 2015 by Fay Sets the Pace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prtrainman Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 ndg910's link includes a photo (link below) of the roof of the Wainwright H nos. 263 being painted at the Bluebell Railway in January 2010. To my mind it looks pretty convincing that the new model is the Wainwright H, which makes me very happy. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_news/10/263_cabroof_derekh_24jan10.jpg The riveted piece on the right of Hornby's photo would need to be part of the sliding roof hatch bit and unfortunately it doesn't look much like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) The riveted piece on the right of Hornby's photo would need to be part of the sliding roof hatch bit and unfortunately it doesn't look much like that. I'm sorry, I'd have to disagree. There's a simpler answer, you're just looking at the cab the wrong way round. Edited December 13, 2015 by MGR Hooper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Sets the Pace Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) The riveted piece on the right of Hornby's photo would need to be part of the sliding roof hatch bit and unfortunately it doesn't look much like that. The riveted seam on the right of Hormby's photo is still there in the Bluebell photo (below). It is partially hidden by the white cloth next to the tea mug, but can be seen to the left of the handle of the green power drill when you zoom in. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_news/10/263_cabroof_derekh_24jan10.jpg Edited December 14, 2015 by Fay Sets the Pace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2015 Hornby really have got the art of froth generation down to absolut perfection. Could we compress it to make solid foam baseboards? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 So am I right in thinking that Hornby have just announced the 2016 range and are already dropping clues for the 2017 range? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I think that the riveted seam on the right of Hormby's photo is present in the Bluebell photo (below). It is partially hidden by the white cloth next to the tea mug, but can be seen to the left of the handle of the green power drill when you zoom in. http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_news/10/263_cabroof_derekh_24jan10.jpg Sounds like an argument for describing a brand new species of mouse based on finding the smallest toe bone. Will knowing the chemical composition of the layers of the paint shown in picture help? Edited December 13, 2015 by autocoach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium it's-er Posted January 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2016 There's a new Engine Shed today 1 January at http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/2015-the-year-of-announcements/ While it is mainly a résumé of 2015 since Hornby launched the Engine Shed in March, it conveys the excitement the Development Team at Hornby feel about their work and about Hornby's new products. About 2016 it promises "we may have a few surprises for you along the way. Plus, you can look forward to a series of exclusive announcements about our 2017 models throughout the year…" 2015 has been a great year for Hornby - and us! - with delivery of no less than 8 major models - K1, J15, Drummond 700, D16/3, King, S15 and Crosti 9F and just sneaking in at the end of the year the J50. Hornby have me hooked with the Engine Shed, and I suspect I'm not alone! With all good wishes to the Engine Shed for a great 2016, and looking forward to following you through the year, John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It has been a little difficult to keep up with Hornby, especially in the second half of 2015. Having at least half-a-dozen factories might be seen as not having all the eggs in one basket but it has had the effect of new models coming to market at very short intervals. With all these factories at work, this might well continue in 2017 until we all bankrupt ourselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 There's a new Engine Shed today 1 January at http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/2015-the-year-of-announcements/ While it is mainly a résumé of 2015 since Hornby launched the Engine Shed in March, it conveys the excitement the Development Team at Hornby feel about their work and about Hornby's new products. About 2016 it promises "we may have a few surprises for you along the way. Plus, you can look forward to a series of exclusive announcements about our 2017 models throughout the year…" 2015 has been a great year for Hornby - and us! - with delivery of no less than 8 major models - K1, J15, Drummond 700, D16/3, King, S15 and Crosti 9F and just sneaking in at the end of the year the J50. Hornby have me hooked with the Engine Shed, and I suspect I'm not alone! With all good wishes to the Engine Shed for a great 2016, and looking forward to following you through the year, John I so agree that Hornby have done very well for we buyers this year, the S15s, Crosti, D16s, King, and now the resumption of Bulleid Light Pacifics, bravo Hornby! (unbridled praise, tempered by the reality of minor production errors here and there) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Anyone else struck by the use of the term "official forum" or "official Hornby forum"? Used no less than eight times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Anyone else struck by the use of the term "official forum" or "official Hornby forum"? Used no less than eight times. I did notice the plugging of their own forum. Think I'll stick to just the one forum for now. Regards, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Anyone else struck by the use of the term "official forum" or "official Hornby forum"? Used no less than eight times. The Hornby forum can be quite interesting at times but it suffers from a serious lack of informed comment. It would be nice to see more RMWebbers take an interest in it. If Hornby is to really establish itself as the leading quality producer then a decent intelligent forum would help it on its journey, to the benefit of us all in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted January 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2016 The Hornby forum can be quite interesting at times but it suffers from a serious lack of informed comment. It would be nice to see more RMWebbers take an interest in it. If Hornby is to really establish itself as the leading quality producer then a decent intelligent forum would help it on its journey, to the benefit of us all in the end. The whole point of the forum is that it is by definition the people who use it, who form it. If it lacks informed comment, then it's because there are no informed comments being written. I know that there is always the questions of moderators. They to my mind are a bit like gardeners pruning a hedge. It depends on whether they are doing topiary and forcing the shape of the hedge, or merely cutting off the twigs that poke people eyes out. I do not use Hornby’s forum enough to comment on the moderation of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Bit disappointed they've left the teaser for the 2017 range still unresolved. I think most have identified the roof as that from an H class but would be nice to know. Roll on 2016 and more of the same from Engine Shed as in my view it's very informative and becoming an excellent marketing resource. The boys with blue boxes could easily do something similar which would be welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2016 Bit disappointed they've left the teaser for the 2017 range still unresolved. I think most have identified the roof as that from an H class but would be nice to know. Roll on 2016 and more of the same from Engine Shed as in my view it's very informative and becoming an excellent marketing resource. The boys with blue boxes could easily do something similar which would be welcome. If Hornby start confirming 2017 releases too soon, there'll be people clamouring for information about 2018 ones by the summer. J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 2, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think most would agree that the Engine Shed has been a real success for Hornby and has taken them from zero to if not quite hero then certainly doing an awful lot better than they were in terms of communication. I certainly agree with a comment above that it is something Bachmann might do well to emulate. One of the things that has worked well for Hornby about the engine shed is it has shown that behind the corporate image their model designers are passionate and proper enthusiasts just like we are. That may be considered an obvious point but sometimes Hornby as described as a plc in a way which uses the term plc in a pejorative way and ignores the fact that many within Hornby really are passionate about their product and trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think most would agree that the Engine Shed has been a real success for Hornby and has taken them from zero to if not quite hero then certainly doing an awful lot better than they were in terms of communication... It certainly has for one significant sector of its potential customer base. I rather doubt that it is so successful over the entire potential customer base, and particularly the group that regarded the print catalogue as just as significant part of the Hornby product line up, as the models displayed within it. That's no criticism of what Hornby's marketing team have decided to do in the way of changing their customer engagment methods. It is their business to run, and these are decisions they are fully entitled to make. The business results will supply the verdict on their performance.(With the internet enabling collaborative effort it seems to me that catalogue enthusiasts could create their own unofficial Hornby annual catalogue; emulating the football fanzines emergence in supplying what club programmes singularly failed to deliver to those enthusiastic for the kicking of balls.) Personally having seen Hornby transform their product delivery from sluggish and unreliable; to briskly delivering more new product variety, albeit with some small reliability issue in exactly hitting release dates, it's much better than before. Was anybody counting just how much completely newly tooled OO product went on retail sale in the UK in 2015? It feels like Hornby swept the board in numbers of all-new releases, to the extent that I would guess their total probably matched all the other OO players combined total. Why get agititated in any way about what future all-new product Hornby have in the pipeline is my attitude? After all they are banging out the all-new product fast enough that it will soon be revealed! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The Hornby forum can be quite interesting at times but it suffers from a serious lack of informed comment. It would be nice to see more RMWebbers take an interest in it. If Hornby is to really establish itself as the leading quality producer then a decent intelligent forum would help it on its journey, to the benefit of us all in the end. The Hornby forum can be quite interesting at times but it suffers from a serious lack of informed comment. It would be nice to see more RMWebbers take an interest in it. If Hornby is to really establish itself as the leading quality producer then a decent intelligent forum would help it on its journey, to the benefit of us all in the end. Personally I've found the Hornby is more narrow than this one in terms of content and breadth. It's user interface is also less useful. It is, however, very useful for resolving specific Hornby problems eg elink. The one great thread I did read was about a conversion someone was doing on one of the oo live steam products into a gwr King. I thought that was excellent modelling David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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