Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[Mikkel]

 

I also bought the exact same pair! Although I binned the sprung underframe. 

 

LNWR in Pen Llŷn by Alan Jones, on Flickr

 

What a scene, Alan. Is the loco one of your Shapeways designs? I can't seem to find it on there.

 

 

Hi Mikkel

It is for this reason - and having experienced the PVA problem - that I now use superglue to flood the liquid lead.

Tony

 

Thanks Tony, I think I will try this next time. 

[Mikkel]

Almost finished the MR D299 today. Thanks to Compound2632 for the help with this one.

 

As usual the camera exposes all the little detail problems. The door patch should only have 4 bolts, the 3-links should be blackened, etc. 

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

Truly excellent, Mikkel

 

From my own experiences as of late, I must say the whole world of wagon modelling is very addictive!

 

 

Rob

[Northroader]

It's a best- seller already:

[Mikkel]

Truly excellent, Mikkel

 

From my own experiences as of late, I must say the whole world of wagon modelling is very addictive!

 

 

Rob

 

Thanks Rob. Well I wish I could weather to your standards, at some point I'm going to have to spend some time getting the hang of that art. But yes, I can easily understand those who spend all their time modelling wagons. It's a whole hobby in itself.  

 

The photos prompted me to look at the wagon again, there seems to be an issue with the lettering, maybe some microsol would help (again).

 

 

It's a best- seller already:

IMG_0829.JPG

 

Brilliant, Northroader!      I'm going to print that and show it to the family    Did Google Translate do that for you, or are you in fact my next door neighbour!  

 

Translating the story to Danish was hard work I tell you. "Slipper boy" for a start! 

[NHY 581]

Thanks Rob. Well I wish I could weather to your standards, at some point I'm going to have to spend some time getting the hang of that art. But yes, I can easily understand those who spend all their time modelling wagons. It's a whole hobby in itself.  

 

The photos prompted me to look at the wagon again, there seems to be an issue with the lettering, maybe some microsol would help (again).

 

 

Hi Mikkel.

 

I am still learning about weathering, making plenty of mistakes along the way! I photograph the wagon as soon as I think I have finished it. The camera sees it for what it is and like you, I will go back and make any adjustments.

 

The Midland wagon looks just fine. The underframe has that, heavy metallic look to it. A real solidity. With yesterdays announcement from Bachmann of the production of a 1P 0.4.4T, I can see me tempted to produce something pre-grouping in the future. Small yard/terminus, 1920's Bristol area.....

 

 

Rob

[Northroader]

Glad you liked the cartoon. Have you ever met anyone from England who could actually speak Danish?

[Quarryscapes]

What a scene, Alan. Is the loco one of your Shapeways designs? I can't seem to find it on there.

 

 

 

Thanks Tony, I think I will try this next time. 

 

No it was an old GEM kit, now moved on to a new owner pending replacement with Bachmann Coal Tanks. 

[Guest Midland Mole]

Glad you liked the cartoon. Have you ever met anyone from England who could actually speak Danish?

 

Well I have met a number of Danish people who speak English far better than most people in this country!

- Alex

[Penlan]

No it was an old GEM kit, now moved on to a new owner pending replacement with Bachmann Coal Tanks. 

A Gem 'Watford' Tank.

[Mikkel]

Glad you liked the cartoon. Have you ever met anyone from England who could actually speak Danish?

 

Oh yes, I even work with a couple (long-term residents here). Learning Danish is a smart career move, we'll outnumber the Chinese any day now.

 

 

No it was an old GEM kit, now moved on to a new owner pending replacement with Bachmann Coal Tanks. 

 

I look forward to seeing your Shapeways 517 body for the Hattons 14xx/48xx, if you're still considering that.

[Mikkel]

I've been experimenting with tarps/wagon sheeting. The Smiths' sheets are well known and I've been a reasonably satisfied user, as here on a certain cattle wagon. 
 

 
 
But for me they also have limitations. First of all their design is too late for my 1900s period. Luckily Ian has made some superb 1900 and 1903 designs, available right here on RMweb - thanks again Ian! You can modify them to new numbers, which is what I have done.

The Smiths sheets are made from paper, which tends to have a  matt and "light" look and feel. I wanted something with a more oily sheen, which would also stay in place to allow draping etc. This led me to these slightly costly but rather nice alufoil sheets from Dio Dump. They fold nicely. They can probably be made cheaper DIY, but for now I'm just testing materials. 




I first considered printing the sheet lettering directly on to the foil, but my printer wouldn't allow it. So instead I turned Ian's sheet design into a decal, using some dry-rub-off decal paper from Crafty Computers that I had in my drawer.




I won't go into the details here, the process is described in this video:

 
 
These decal sheets work surprisingly well, and I can see all sorts of applications for them at Farthing.




One hitch was that the decal paper I had was the transparent type, and because inkjet printers don't print white (never knew that), the lettering came out transparent. I solved this by painting the alu foil white (onto which the decal is applied). The Craft shop have another type of decal paper with white backing, which presumably makes this workaround un-necessary.

 

At this point I forgot to take photos, but I simply rubbed the decal onto the alu foil and the lettering was transferred very well indeed - and sticks as if it was printed on. Below are first results, I like it.








I'll experiment some more in the next couple of days, including how they work as actual wagon sheeting - I want to read up on that first.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Mikkel

[MikeOxon]

Oh yes, I even work with a couple (long-term residents here). Learning Danish is a smart career move, we'll outnumber the Chinese any day now. ............

 

While on matters Danish:  I received a jar of sweets for Christmas - Liquorice with white chocolate, raspberry, and chilli.  Highly addictive and high on my 'favourites' list - made by a Danish firm called Møn Dragée  beat any Chinese product any day

[bgman]

Superb tarps Mikkel, inivative as ever and very useful products.

[Brinkly]

Brilliant idea Mikkel, I eagerly await your results! This could be th solution for the China clay covers that we need for Bodmin.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

The most comprehensive account of how wagon sheets were used I've come across was an article by Bob Essery in Midland Record No. 3 - I'll see if I can dig it out. 

[Mikkel]

While on matters Danish:  I received a jar of sweets for Christmas - Liquorice with white chocolate, raspberry, and chilli.  Highly addictive and high on my 'favourites' list - made by a Danish firm called Møn Dragée  beat any Chinese product any day

 

Bacon and liquorice. A proud nation! 

 

And margarine, once. I've sometimes wondered if the Otto Mønsted margarine factory in Southall (subsequently Maypole, then Lever) could provide some inspiration for a works layout. Not quite as grand as Huntley & Palmer, but something similar perhaps (warning, pop-up ad may appear): http://s531.photobucket.com/user/paullangphotos/media/Ealing%20Then%20and%20Now/img817.jpg.html

[Mikkel]

Superb tarps Mikkel, inivative as ever and very useful products.

 

Thanks Grahame. I'm quite surprised by the decals, I thought they might crack when bent, or show the usual tell-tale signs of transfers, but they act and look as if printed on. 

 

BTW I'm puzzled why a British company would use the term "decals", I thought they were called transfers in the UK. Or is there a difference?

 

I have no connection with the companies involved.

 

 

Brilliant idea Mikkel, I eagerly await your results! This could be th solution for the China clay covers that we need for Bodmin.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

 

Nick, the DioDumps tarps are available on ebay at around 2.60 each. There is room for two 4mm wagon sheets on each with a bit left over for use in the yard or whatever. 

 

That's OK for a few wagon sheets, but if you want a large quantity the ideal solution would probably be to see if A4 sized alu foil sheets could be produced, spray painted black and then fed directly into a printer. My initial searches haven't found appropriate alu foil for that, but more digging might produce a result.

 

One potential issue is whether the DioDumps foil - which is thicker than paper - will fold neatly enough at the ends for a fully sheeted wagon. This is one thing I need to experiment with.

 

 

The most comprehensive account of how wagon sheets were used I've come across was an article by Bob Essery in Midland Record No. 3 - I'll see if I can dig it out. 

 

That would be a great help, many thanks!

 

GWR Goods Services (vol 2A p59) also has a section on wagon sheets and tarpaulins, including some useful notes relating to texture (the author explicitly states that sheets were the railway term for tarpaulins, so he uses them interchangeably):

 

"GWR sheet factories made new, and repaired old, tarpaulins not only for railway wagons but also for cartage vehicles. Tarpaulins were made from canvas, impregnated with linseed oil and vegetable black, the resulting material taking on a leathery texture which was still flexible in frost and snow.  Tarpaulin manufacturers aimed to combine toughness and lightness with durability. New sheets were tacky, and it was recommended that they be used straight away and not left folded. When new, the sheets (21ft x 14ft 4ins) weighted about 75lbs - anything more than a hundredweight (112lbs) was deemed too heavy to be handled by a railwayman working alone. Tarpaulins had a useful life of about six years." 

 

I've noticed that in 1900s photos some  sheets look very shiny and wrinkly (almost like the cheap modern plastic tarps you can get nowadays) and others looks more oily and smooth. I assume this reflects their age. I do wonder though if there were different grades, as some look thicker than others.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mikkel

[Ian Smith]

Very nice tarpaulins Mikkel.  So glad that someone has made use of my artwork    I like the way they have been folded over the loads, although the one over the barrels looks almost self supporting at the end but that could be the angle of the photograph.

 

No idea why/when the UK adopted "decals" rather than "transfers", I tend to use both terms almost equally (although probably using "transfers" more, but that almost certainly comes from the many Airfix kits I built as a boy/youth).

 

Ian

[Mikkel]

although the one over the barrels looks almost self supporting at the end but that could be the angle of the photograph.

 

Quite right Ian, I didn't notice that. The good thing about this material is that I could have fixed it in a second: It only requires a little finger pressure to form the sheet snugly around the barrels - as opposed to paper, which would probably need glueing or similar.

 

Edit: By the way I came across a variant of the 1900s tarp design, which seems to be a hybrid between the two you have made. The photo doesn't show the full sheet but I will keep an eye out for it in other pics, so we could possibly have a  third design from the period for our wagons.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mikkel

[Donw]

Very nice Mikkel.  Modern tarps are rated by the weight 200 gsm being heavy duty and 100 gsm lightweight I presume there would have been a similar grading years ago Sail cloth canvas is rated by weights.

There is a problem with printing the designs in that most peoples printers are not set up to print white, so the transfers make sense. Another way to do it would be to set up a silk screen printer for a small production. It is some years since I used a silk screen printer but I am sure it would work.

I must look up how Gorden Gavett did his in the MRJ article. I will report back.

Don 

[Mikkel]

Very nice Mikkel.  Modern tarps are rated by the weight 200 gsm being heavy duty and 100 gsm lightweight I presume there would have been a similar grading years ago Sail cloth canvas is rated by weights.

There is a problem with printing the designs in that most peoples printers are not set up to print white, so the transfers make sense. Another way to do it would be to set up a silk screen printer for a small production. It is some years since I used a silk screen printer but I am sure it would work.

I must look up how Gorden Gavett did his in the MRJ article. I will report back.

Don

 

Thanks Don. I see there are a number of instructional videos for simple DIY silk screen printing. I'll have a look.

 

A few alternative uses of sheets on the layout here:

 

In the yard for covering stored goods (at the back): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48792-tight-curves-in-a-ly-goods-yard/?p=552701

 

For cartage vehicles: http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Horwich&objid=1997-7059_HOR_F_3061

 

For protecting old stock!: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/ehlr/ehlr5.htm

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mikkel

[Norwenglish]

 

There is certainly some unexploited modelling potential around here, especially for historic layouts. We do not have a long tradition for prototype layout building in Denmark, so there are many unexplored opportunities. The number of kits and one-man-band manufacturers has also historically been more limited than what you see (saw?) on the UK scene (it's a small market). There have been changes in recent decades though, and there are some excellent prototype layouts being built now. As for Danish "civilisation", much of it is hyped to be honest. This book uncovers some of the myths. 

 

On a related topic, the rather nice Norwegian modelling mag "MJ Bladet" dropped though the letterbox the other day, and a certain slipper boy appears in the pages 

 

 

This is a modified "Scandic" version of the slipper boy story, written in Danish and with a more elaborated section on the layout itself in order to explain some of the British particularities.  Many thanks to the MJB team for featuring the layout, and to BRM for being open-minded on this.

 

Hi Mikkel,

 

I was wondering if there was any feature or pictures from the Bergen model railway exhibition in the magazine? As they were taking lots of pictures of our layout when we were there, and we were thinking of getting a copy in case any of the pictures made the cut.

 

Thanks,

Stuart

[Mikkel]

Hi Stuart, there are a couple of pages on the Bergen exhibition. No pictures of Rotherhurst, but there is a description of the layout 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Mikkel

[The Stationmaster]

I've been experimenting with tarps/wagon sheeting. The Smiths' sheets are well known and I've been a reasonably satisfied user, as here on a certain cattle wagon. 

 

 

 

But for me they also have limitations. First of all their design is too late for my 1900s period. Luckily Ian has made some superb 1900 and 1903 designs, available right here on RMweb - thanks again Ian! You can modify them to new numbers, which is what I have done.

 

The Smiths sheets are made from paper, which tends to have a  matt and "light" look and feel. I wanted something with a more oily sheen, which would also stay in place to allow draping etc. This led me to these slightly costly but rather nice alufoil sheets from Dio Dump. They fold nicely. They can probably be made cheaper DIY, but for now I'm just testing materials. 

 

 

 

 

I first considered printing the sheet lettering directly on to the foil, but my printer wouldn't allow it. So instead I turned Ian's sheet design into a decal, using some dry-rub-off decal paper from Crafty Computers that I had in my drawer.

 

 

 

 

I won't go into the details here, the process is described in this video:

 

 

 

These decal sheets work surprisingly well, and I can see all sorts of applications for them at Farthing.

 

 

 

 

One hitch was that the decal paper I had was the transparent type, and because inkjet printers don't print white (never knew that), the lettering came out transparent. I solved this by painting the alu foil white (onto which the decal is applied). The Craft shop have another type of decal paper with white backing, which presumably makes this workaround un-necessary.

 

 

At this point I forgot to take photos, but I simply rubbed the decal onto the alu foil and the lettering was transferred very well indeed - and sticks as if it was printed on. Below are first results, I like it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll experiment some more in the next couple of days, including how they work as actual wagon sheeting - I want to read up on that first.

 

Wagon sheets should go over the raves of open wagons - a load sheeted like the one in 4162 would still get wet (if it rained) as the water would run off the sheet inside the wagon.  Sheet 31331 is correctly applied so it goes down the outside and over the ends of the vehicle.

Edited January 12, 2017 by The Stationmaster