Ellesmere North (W.Region 1957)

[bgman]

The old glass plate was dug out of the garage, it not having been used since my full-time painting & lining days 11 years ago. The '0' gauge boiler bands still on it must be from a City of Truro I painted back then and which appeared in Railway Magazine.....

 

WEB glass plate.jpg

 

The link is, I have been re-spraying boilers and lining out the boiler bands. The image below shows the typical bands as printed by the RTR companies.... 

WEB Boiler bands 1.jpg

 

Freshly lined boiler bands with wider spaced orange lining on a loco I repainted from lined black....

WEB boiler bands 2.jpg

 

Hi Larry,

 

May I ask with regard to your resprays, I have a Railroad Adderley Hall which I intend to detail and also respray (early period GWR green).

As i'm in two minds as to stripping it right back or spray over the factory applied green (hmmm !) do you or anyone else reading this interesting thread have any experience/thoughts of using something like Precision Paints or enamel in general directly onto the the body/tender shell ?

I hope you don't mind me asking here ?

 

Regards

 

Grahame

[coachmann]

Hi Grahame, I spray on top of the Hornby finish. Apart from a 'Manor' sprayed with Precision enamel, all the other loco jobs for my layout have been done using using cellulose that had been mixed to match Precision P100 many years ago.

 

I refused to paint RTR plastic models in my painting & lining days and so I have no experience of stripping the stuff.  The current Hornby surface is usually very good so why remove it I says.

[bgman]

Hi Grahame, I spray on top of the Hornby finish. Apart from a 'Manor' sprayed with Precision enamel, all the other loco jobs for my layout have been done using using cellulose that had been mixed to match Precision P100 many years ago.

 

I refused to paint RTR plastic models in my painting & lining days and so I have no experience of stripping the stuff.  The current Hornby surface is usually very good so why remove it I says.

Hello Larry,

 

Thank you for your response it's much appreciated.

I suppose the obvious thing to do is try a small area first with a mist coat from my airbrush then several coats until I'm satisfied.

 

If all else fails then I'll strip it back, although I'm reasonably happy with the lining to the boiler ( however I might do what you've done ) we shall see.

 

Keep up the good work, I know I've said it before but it's a great model in the making and I hope it gives you much pleasure !

 

Grahame

[coachmann]

I know I've said it before but it's a great model in the making and I hope it gives you much pleasure !

It is the first layout that has actually. Simplicity as a keyword has been ditched in recent weeks though, spurred on with the DCC sound aspect more than anything else. A plan by David Jenkinson for a small town terminus intended for his Kendal Mk.II layout will probably by adopted. The complexity of trackwork will be far more interesting to run and the station can equally be a through station when I extend outside the shed and have trains working in from Whitchurch. It will remain a red route** and will make better use of Hall and Grange 4-6-0's on corridor trains. I have outgrown the predominantly freight Ellesmere North, but no track will be lifted while it is needed for testing locos progressively being fitted with sound chips. Winter has come at a good time!

 

**The real Cambrian Ellesmere-Whitchurch- Wrexham route carried a blue weight restriction

[bgman]

It will interesting to hear you findings ( no pun intended !) when you find a sound decoder which suits your requirements for your locomotive/s.

I have been developing a layout now I'm retired, albeit an early Epoche I/Ii Bavarian' ish based theme which uses European rtr locomotives and I've found the decoders and sound to be excellent with a heavy bass sound as standard.

That said I am considering and earlier GWR period smaller layout too so I can run my stock of early locos with sound hence my initial sentence.

 

Cheers

[coachmann]

After starting with a particular brand, I found a Digitrains program far more to my liking and so I have standardized on Digitrains Zimo's. The initial decoder has now been reblown by Digitrains. So far I haven't fitted a bass-reflex speaker but I am aware of their potential for making steam exhaust much deeper. On the basis that many GWR 2-cylinder engines sound pretty much alike, the same 'Hall' program is going in a Grange, 38XX and 'Dukedog'.  I first listened to sounds of the real locos (though not a Grange of course) and in particular the preserved Dukedog while on its home line and on the Severn Valley. From that I decided the Hall chip would do in preference to a pucker Dukedog recording by a different firm.  A friend is kindly working on the CV's and the myriad variations and so I haven't heard the 4-4-0 as yet.

[gismorail]

Looking at your photo's and enjoying you excellent eye for a nice track level shot excellent Larry. Whilst I'm havin a browse through peoples excellent work I'm getting a rough ride up here in Carrog the wind is howling and the rain is coming down in biblical fashion, I bet you shed is 'Rocking and Rolling' down there on the coast. The river Dee has risen seriously this afternoon and I'm sure there will be a few worried people hoping that the track bed is still in place on the Llangollen Railway in the morning.

I get a great deal of inspiration from your work long may it continue good Sir. 

[coachmann]

Looking at your photo's and enjoying you excellent eye for a nice track level shot excellent Larry. Whilst I'm havin a browse through peoples excellent work I'm getting a rough ride up here in Carrog the wind is howling and the rain is coming down in biblical fashion, I bet you shed is 'Rocking and Rolling' down there on the coast. The river Dee has risen seriously this afternoon and I'm sure there will be a few worried people hoping that the track bed is still in place on the Llangollen Railway in the morning.

I get a great deal of inspiration from your work long may it continue good Sir. 

Thanks. I hope you are not seriously affected. Sounds like it could be a repeat of almost exactly 51 years ago when flooding precipitated the Llangollen line's closure. Must be smashing living in Carrog, a dream in fact with the sound of steam trains coming through open windows. 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

It is the first layout that has actually. Simplicity as a keyword has been ditched in recent weeks though, spurred on with the DCC sound aspect more than anything else. A plan by David Jenkinson for a small town terminus intended for his Kendal Mk.II layout will probably by adopted. The complexity of trackwork will be far more interesting to run and the station can equally be a through station when I extend outside the shed and have trains working in from Whitchurch. It will remain a red route** and will make better use of Hall and Grange 4-6-0's on corridor trains. I have outgrown the predominantly freight Ellesmere North, but no track will be lifted while it is needed for testing locos progressively being fitted with sound chips. Winter has come at a good time!

 

**The real Cambrian Ellesmere-Whitchurch- Wrexham route carried a blue weight restriction

 

Hi Larry.

 

Will the new layout still be Ellesmere North?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Hi Larry.

 

Will the new layout still be Ellesmere North?

 

The many layouts of Larry perfectly embody Theseus' Paradox....

[coachmann]

Hi Larry.

 

Will the new layout still be Ellesmere North?

 

The many layouts of Larry perfectly embody Theseus' Paradox....

 

Triggers Broom Station is not a bad choice, however, it will remain Ellesmere North.    

[APOLLO]

Right Larry, you've done Pennine main line scenery at Greenfield and a bucolic ex Great Western branch scene.

 

What about some urban grot - Oldham Clegg Street - Sheepwashers Lane end, Glodwick Road, or even a simple junction station like Werneth  (with the fierce incline down to Middleton Jcn / fiddle yard ?.

 

Just been re-reading (for the umpteenth time) your excellent Foxline book Delph to Oldham. What an interesting line it was back in the 50's when you lived / worked there.. Many interesting places to model in this book..

 

I know you won't though. Good luck with whatever you decide, it's sure to be interesting.

 

Brit15

[johnd]

Book ! Is it still available and where from.

 

Title please ?

[coachmann]

'Delph to Oldham' by L.Goddard and J.Wells (Foxline). Includes Lees MPD, motor trains and the line to Ashton-U-Lyne. Booklaw took over the Foxline publications. I did two Janes type colour albums : 'Colour of the North Wales Mainline' (Diesel era). And 'The Conwy Valley Line' (inc. Trawsfynydd). 

[APOLLO]

I love the Foxline "Scenes from the past" series of books and have most of them. They are well written, well illustrated and have excellent maps / diagrams. If you are modelling or wish to model a line covered by one of these books they are invaluable. I've been collecting them for years.

 

Though mostly the subjects are in the North West there are a couple of North Wales / Great Central books also. Quite a few different authors, hard to pick a favourite they are all excellent. Larry's Oldham book is Scenes from the Past Part 49. These books give brilliant layout ideas, especially for the 60's / 70's modeller. Based on these books, a couple of nice layouts I have "thought" planned are.

 

Oldham as mentioned, Basically a short stretch of 2 parallel twin track lines with 2 stations each end, and loads of sidings in between..

 

Colne, a through station where the L&Y met the Midland head on (at the station). Interest here is smallish station, curved viaduct over the town then extensive carriage sidings and loco shed. In summer up to around 1966 many holiday excursion trains would start here, reversing from the sidings over the viaduct to the station, then off to the seaside (Southport / Blackpool etc) picking up passengers at Burnley, Blackburn etc. This would make an ideal exhibition layout with a difference. Book is by Stuart Taylor, Scenes from the past 26 Journey Through East Lancashire Part One.

 

I would like to see a similar book on Larry's modelled area, Wrexham / Ellesmere. The Wrexham area had quite a complex web of lines up to the 70's.

 

Brit15

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Part of my research into Ellesmere has shown that the actual Cambrian Station was on the North edge of Ellesmere....

 

There was an Ironworks, Bridgewater Foundry, alongside the Canal Basin, later this was a creamery! (Dairy Crest closed it down.)

 

Ellesmere had a trade in Malt, at one time there were around 30 Maltings!

 

Timber was also a traffic, Oak out, and Scaninavian softwoods inwards (Ex Ship in Ellesmere Port.) (Trade started off on the canal...)

 

Limestone for fluxing (Ironworks) and Lime kilns (which also used coal..)

[coachmann]

I would like to see a similar book on Larry's modelled area, Wrexham / Ellesmere. The Wrexham area had quite a complex web of lines up to the 70's.

Me to. I am relying very much of the pictures posted by friend PGH, in fact I have printed two this evening ot study the track layout at the Whitchurch end.

 

Greg Fox worked for BR and was an excellent draftsman hence the profusion of track layout plans in his Foxline publications. My book was to be No.50 but Greg had reserved it so it took No.49. No. 50 'Stockport to Whalley Bridge' was a landmark and I did his cover design in gold to suit. THe new Foxline logo I designed for my cover was adopted as standard.

[coachmann]

Part of my research into Ellesmere has shown that the actual Cambrian Station was on the North edge of Ellesmere....

 

There was an Ironworks, Bridgewater Foundry, alongside the Canal Basin, later this was a creamery! (Dairy Crest closed it down.)

 

Ellesmere had a trade in Malt, at one time there were around 30 Maltings!

 

Timber was also a traffic, Oak out, and Scaninavian softwoods inwards (Ex Ship in Ellesmere Port.) (Trade started off on the canal...)

 

Limestone for fluxing (Ironworks) and Lime kilns (which also used coal..)

Thanks for that. I painted an iron works on the backscene 'on top of the hill', with inspiration from Brymbo Steel before I dreamed up Ellesmere Colliery.

[Zomboid]

I suppose if it's all change again, perhaps you ought to consider doing the CLC/LNER routes of that area...

[DerekEm8]

 

 

What about some urban grot - Oldham Clegg Street - Sheepwashers Lane end, Glodwick Road, or even a simple junction station like Werneth  (with the fierce incline down to Middleton Jcn / fiddle yard ?.

 

Just been re-reading (for the umpteenth time) your excellent Foxline book Delph to Oldham. What an interesting line it was back in the 50's when you lived / worked there.. Many interesting places to model in this book..

 

I know you won't though. Good luck with whatever you decide, it's sure to be interesting.

 

Brit15

We once considered a layout based on Werneth- Tunnel mouth to the Hollinwood/ Middleton incline junction could be modelled in less than 10 feet BUT Werneth's huge goods yard (which was at right angles to the Station) could just about fit on a 20ft x 8ft extension.

Hence a no-no.  But would have been interesting.

[coachmann]

The GCR/LNER ran through the town I was born in, the L&Y/LNER/LMS through the town I was educated in and the Cambrian/GWR in the places I spent happy holidays in, so its a no brainer. 

[runs as required]

Um....here's a silly idea (I've always specialised in them).

The reason I delight in clicking in here is

1

The extraordinatily speed with which you work to post thoroughly credible images of railside scenes that one needs to look twice at to check that they are actual models.

2

The quality of your photography

3

The almost unbeliievable way in which LNW Greenfield morphed into Delph...then Delph transformed within a week into GW Ellesmere!

 

Now you've understandably fallen for sound, the subtleties of DCC and a desire for a more complicated station layout. You are attracted by the Jenkinson terminal / possible through layout (though I bet you will never stop adapting any track layout iteratively) .

 

My silly suggestion is that the future plan enables you to very quickly change the surroundings to your railway modelling: flat landscape / hilly terrain: up high/ claustrophobic down in valley ; lakeside with reflections? 

Rural/urban (with industry,  mining, quarrying)     GW/LM/LNE.

The Vale of Clwyd might be an almost plausible location for such carryings on.  A ficticious Mold General perhaps?

 

Quick! Where did I dump that coat of mine.....

 

dh

[Jason T]

Hopefully not off topic but the model/ book shop at Haworth station on the KWVR had two copies of Larry's excellent book in when I popped in in Saturday. I bought my copy a couple of years ago and it is a great book; there is even a photo of our esteemed host on the footplate of an A Class with a magnificent mop of hair. Larry that is, not the A Class; a hairy loco would be a tad weird.

[Zomboid]

The GCR/LNER ran through the town I was born in, the L&Y/LNER/LMS through the town I was educated in and the Cambrian/GWR in the places I spent happy holidays in, so its a no brainer.

SECR?

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi Larry...

 

I hope you like this!

 

Here is the sum of my research, using the books and maps in our possession (Not any good maps of Ellesmere, but Google Maps, etc. will supply those...)

 

Also see this site! You can select old maps, including one shewing the coal and mineral areas, and they are overlayed onto an aerial view, with a slider to determine the transparency of the old map....a great asset!

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14&lat=52.9108&lon=-2.8970&layers=161

 

Ellesmere North. (A part-fictionalised history...)

 

Ellesmere Sketch Map

 

 

Ellesmere in Shropshire was to become the centre of a canal network, the Ellesmere Canal was never completed as planned, but survived to become part of the Shropshire Union Canal, and the canal from Hurleston to Llangollen, via Ellesmere, is today a popular route for pleasure cruising, known as the Llangollen Canal.

 

Trade..

 

Ellesmere had an Ironworks, the Bridgewater Foundry, which was alongside the canal basin.

The canal company’s large maintenance and boat yard was situated at the canal junction.

There was a good trade in timber, homegrown hardwoods, such as Oak, were shipped out, and large quantities of imported timber from Scandinavia came inwards. One large Timber Yard was situated near the Foundry at the canal basin.

Ellesmere, and Whitchurch, were important centres for the production of Cheshire Cheese. Cheese fairs being held in both towns.

There was later a large creamery by the canal basin at Ellesmere.

Ellesmere became a centre for malt production, with 30 maltings being recorded in 1861. These supplied the breweries at Wrexham, as well as other places.

Limestone for use as a flux in Iron Smelting, as well as for the production of Lime for use in agriculture as a fertiliser was an important traffic passing through the area from quarries at Llanymynech, etc.

Coal was required for various industries, the town gasworks, limekilns, ironworks, etc., as well as for domestic consumption.

The North Wales Coalfield extended almost to Ellesmere. The nearest Coal Mine being at Chirk, to the West.

 

EDITED to add...

 

There was also a large "Smithfield" Cattle Market next to the Station. (Seen on a map!)

 

Railways...

 

The area was attractive to the new railway companies, and a lot of arguments and thwarted ambitions were to pass before things settled down.

 

Wrexham gained a railway in 1854, with the Shrewsbury & Chester Railway station. Soon to become part of the Great Western Railway, this line tapped the mineral resources around Wrexham, with branch lines to Minera and Ffrwd, etc., and joined Shrewsbury to Chester via Gobowen, Chirk, Ruabon, Wrexham and Saltney.

 

In 1861 the Wrexham, Mold and Connah’s Quay Railway Act was passed. This company had big ambitions, and was soon to promote more routes. The main line was eventually to be from Hawarden Bridge (Junction with the line to Seacombe) to Wrexham, with branches to Brymbo and Ffrwd, and a connection to the L&NWR at Penyfordd.

 

There were plans for a route from Wrexham to Whitchurch from 1861, but the WM&CQR were not in a position to actually build the line, the rest of the WM&CQR main line to Wrexham was still under construction, not being opened until 1866.

 

In 1864 the WM&CQR had plans for a route from Wrexham to Holt and Farndon, with a later 1865 plan to extend this to join the London & North Western Railway Chester and Crewe line near Waverton.

 

These plans were countered by the L&NWR promoting its own Bill for the “Dee Valley Railway” from Waverton to Farndon, Holt, and Wrexham.

The resources of the L&NWR triumphed, and the Act was passed in 1865. Construction started quickly, and the line was opened in 1872.

 

A further Bill was submitted to Parliament in 1869 for a new line from the L&NWR Station at Wrexham Central to Whitchurch via Bangor-on-Dee and Ellesmere, where it would join the newly built Cambrian Railways line from Oswestry to Whitchurch.

This was a joint line, being promoted by the L&NWR and the Cambrian Railways.

The  Act was passed, and construction started in 1870. The line opened in 1880.

In practice, most traffic was carried by the Cambrian Company, with a passenger service being run by the L&NWR from Chester to Wrexham, Ellesmere, and Whitchurch.

 

A temporary Cambrian Railways Terminus near the Canal Basin in Ellesmere was later to become the Goods Station, after the opening of the Joint station at Ellesmere North, to the east of the triangular junction with the line from Wrexham.

 

In 1887, after problems with the GWR agreeing to the design of the bridge, the WM&CQR was extended from the small terminus alongside the GWR Wrexham General Station, under the GWR, to join the L&NWR and Cambrian Companies at Wrexham Central Station.

 

The GWR put in a connection to the Cambrian side of Central Station from Croes Newydd in 1900, taking over the site of some flour mills to allow this.

 

This allowed through working of L&NWR trains from Wrexham Central, via the GWR to Croes Newydd and the Moss Valley line to Ffrwd Locks. There the joint L&NWR and GWR line to Coed Talon joined, allowing trains to reach Mold and, via Denbigh, to the North Wales Coast at Rhyl.

 

In the Grouping (1923) the Cambrian became part of the enlarged Great Western Railway. The WM&CQR, which had become part of the Great Central Railway, became part of the London & North Eastern Railway. The L&NWR became part of the London, Midland & Scottish Railway.

 

The GWR saw the route from Wrexham via Ellesmere and Whitchurch as a diversionary route for trains to Shrewsbury from the Shrewsbury to Wrexham via Ruabon line. The bridges, etc. were strengthened, and the route re-classed form “Blue” to “Red” under the GWR route availability scheme, allowing all but the heaviest “Double Red” locomotives to use the line.

 

Under British Railways, at first little changed. Later regional changes would have an effect though, as all the lines became part of the London Midland Region.

 

Except for the main lines, Shrewsbury to Chester via Ruabon, Wrexham Central to Bidston, Chester to Crewe, and Crewe to Shrewsbury via Whitchurch, the network centred on Wrexham was mainly closed in the 1960s.

 

Railways Around Wrexham and Ellesmere...