hayfield Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Not much progress this morning Cleaned up both cylinders and I hope I have got it round the right way, bit worried about the crosshead being whitemetal, also too big to fit as it needs the slots clearing/deepening Just placed in place to see if all is OK I really need a plan better than I have and think I should add rivets rather than dab bits of glue in place. Advice would be welcome please 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sej Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi John: That's looking very nice, I do like a Southern tank loco. It's a fascinating arrangement, having the front wheel bearing and springs attached to the crosshead bars. Perhaps you could file a certain amount of metal from the bearing surfaces and replace it with nickel silver if you're worried about the white-metal wearing away? As for rivets, I very much like Archer resin transfer rivets. I find that they go on pretty easily and once left to dry for a day or so, don't come off again. I'm quite partial to a dab or two of Araldite Steel epoxy too. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I do not like white metal cross heads or slide bars. They bend too easily. They should not wear if properly fitted. Your car big ends run onto the stuff. I used laurie Griffins cross heads slide bars and under hung spring and axle box. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I do not like white metal cross heads or slide bars. They bend too easily. ..... There is a place for whitemetal, and it's not in the motion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 There is a place for whitemetal, and it's not in the motion. But the big railway did use white metal in parts of the motion! Along with a lot of its bearings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 But the big railway did use white metal in parts of the motion! Along with a lot of its bearings. Note: bearings. Not entire structures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 There is a place for whitemetal, and it's not in the motion. This is your quote above is it not, and it does not say in that quote any think about entire structures of the motion. Me Lord. But I will agree that W/M should not be use to make parts of the valve gear. But it does make a fantastic bearing material as long as it's kept lubricated. OzzyO. PS. sorry Htan. PPS. so what about a bearing with a W/M centre and???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thank you all for taking the time to reply, other than the cylinder (which is fine in whitemetal) its only the crosshead and piston rod which are in whitemetal, the rest of the parts are from a nickle silver etch. I have heard about Archer rivets and most seem to be very positive. Who sells them and any idea which size (if they come in different sizes) do I require Any idea where I can get a decent plan from please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sej Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi John: try this www.archertransfers.com/AR88091.html or go to the website and look for 0 Scale rivet starter set. The website has some excellent information and fascinating products including eye-ball decals for model figures. Marvellous! They are also very helpful and the shipping costs are not too onerous. Various model shops and companies sell them in the UK. I usually pick mine up at exhibitions. Try googling Archer Transfers. There is a very nice drawing in the combined edition of "Locomotives I Have Known" by J.N. Maskelyne. The scale is a bit ambiguous and I don't know how accurate it is but it's very pretty and has lots of rivets showing. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Simon Thank you that is a great link and watched one video. Looks like I need the 0 gauge set AR88105. Do they go straight on to the whitemetal or should I prime the loco first. I can download a couple of photos from Google which show the rivet detail, I guess its rivet representation / in the correct place rather than the exact number of rivets (am I about to be chastised!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 I have a few days off, today I had to repair the frame of one of our patio doors, thankfully the worst part is done and the house is watertight. A few more bits to do over the next couple of days, but I guess not all will be plain sailing. Still back to the main event, had a few moments between DIY and club night The second cylinder has been finished and fitted in place. Cannot do too much more till the packet comes from Roxey mouldings with the hornblock alignment rods to arrive. I have opened up the slots of the crossheads a bit, but still a bit stiff, so will carry on opening them up a small amount till they free up Once I have the drivers on I will be able to set the 2 chassis to body fixing holes. Once I have the nuts soldered in place I can carry on with the body 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sej Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hi John: That's looking very good. I'm itching to have a go at one myself having nearly bought the kit a number of times. I've used Archer rivets on both bare, clean brass and nickel silver with primer over the top, or on top of the primer. Both seem fine as long as you leave them time to dry hard to the surface. I would check first by having some practice runs on scrap metal pieces and also check that the paint you intend to use doesn't affect the transfers. I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of rivet counting now and then and am also perfectly pleased with achieving an impression of the rivet pattern if time, difficulty or matters of scale get in the way. The photo shows Archer rivets applied directly to the smokebox wrapper and spray painted with Vallejo black primer, on my 4mm J15. Cheers Simon 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Simon Thank you, I may have not made my self clear about the rivets. After watching one of the archer videos I plan to use them in strips, so for a given length they (hopefully) will be in the correct place, but may be 16 rather than 15 or 17. I will use the nearest match I can. I was torn between the P class and the Beattie after seeing them at St Albans in January. Years ago I made a body of an 02 in plasticard and a 4 wheeled coach, The plastic W irons have failed over the years so bought some etched ones from Hobby Holidays. I must admit I do like the weight of the whitemetal locos and this is only a small one !!, do have a go well worth it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian G Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I have one of these to build, and have lots of Laurie Griffin parts, I will watch your build with interest. Ian G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 In Between DIY I opened up the holes in the chassis for the bearings for the axle bearings as I need to locate the positions for the fixings nuts, which are not in the position marked on the footplate I will glue some plasticard spacers to the bottom of the footplate to locate the chassis in a central position, then all I need to worry about the where on the centre line both holes need drilling The chassis will be un-soldered and tacked back into position as its slightly out of square. I also need to alter the pony wheel carrier, its too long, a bit wide on one end, the wheel is sitting about 1 mm too low. Still waiting for the hornblock alignment jigs which hopefully will be with me very soon Next problem is how much side play in the wheels, the front wheels can't move that much, otherwise they will foul the slide bar assembly. The rear wheels are the driven ones which again need to be quite tight on side play. So it will be the forward drivers that will have the side play, no advice in the instructions as to how much though, at the moment its about 1.5 mm The chimney is just been placed into position. I have decided to make a cradle to build the body on, so need some 20 mm pine strip I have one of these to build, and have lots of Laurie Griffin parts, I will watch your build with interest. Ian G Ian What extra parts have you and where did they come from please 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hello Hayfield, that looks like it will build into a nice looking loco. One thing to look out for IIRC is that the coupling rods are out side of the connecting rods on these locos. On a loco of this length you should get away with about 0.5 - 0.75mm of side play on the centre axle. Any chance of a photo of the arrangement of the bearing on the front axle? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 As you can see its an oblong 4 sided tube Its not only a tad long, but also slightly wide at one end. Both easy to rectify Also the frames need the slot deepening by 1 mm. The instructions suggest that the unit is able to slide up and down a bit, perhaps even sprung As I said I will be taking the chassis apart to do a couple of things, then I will solder it up square I have just made a simple building frame so i can support the footplate whilst building the body 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted June 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2015 Interesting to follow your progress with this kit, I had one for a while, but never did anything with it and eventually sold it on. Cheers, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hello Hayfield, looking at the front axle "bearing" you will have to stop most side play as you don't have much room behind the slide-bars Etc. so some form of stops at the inside ends could be good, also a spring that works on the centre of the "bearing" could be a good idea. Or you could use a rocking bar on it. like you would on three point suspension. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This is how I did mine I made side beams for the front two axles pivoted on a tube split in the centre. The bushes are soldered to the beams the wrong way around and filed back to give no side play on the front, and a minimal amount on the leading driver. This means the motor gear box can be mounted on either driving wheel. I put mine on the rear fixed axle, also no side play. Sorry not the best photo and complicated as I had to rebuild my chassis as it was a part made kit when I got it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have been putting mt 4 mm spares into a 48 draw & 9 draw racking draws, no idea I had so many. Anyway the chassis was stripped back I decided to both shorten the length of the bogie wheel carrier and instead of making the slots bigger in the chassis I filed notches in the top of the carrier ends, this has resulted in about half a millimetre movement upwards. I am thinking og soldering a brass tube in the centre of the top and have a wire arrangement that not only holds it in place but allows it to rock side to side and up and down (only slightly though) Underside showing the new holes and whitemetal spacers, as I thought they were better being soldered to the footplate than the chassis Nuts soldered in place (bit untidy but used normal solder for strength and to fill in old hole positions). The chassis mat still need moving backwards a little more still, but will adjust the position by enlarging chassis holes if needed. The instructions suggested adding a further chassis spacer at the front vertically, this I dis as well as adding another in the centre of the chassis Body placed on top again just for show, I can now remove the chassis and start the body build, think I have earnt a beer 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 You will need to watch the side to side movement. It will be very close to hitting the inside of the crossheads etc. As it is such a small loco I would do as I did and make it as a 0-6-0. It is hard but you need to get away from the OO gauge building of chassis. There is never as much side play and slack need as the RTR manufacturers put in. This all stems from trying to get them to go around tight curves. My BTW has no side play as such and happily goes through a Peco point. In O gauge as with OO there is plenty of slop in the wheels and track. So much so you can make the track gauge 31mm instead of 32mm and Slaters wheels still work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Peter Thanks, the slop on the front wheels is virtually nil, the rear wheels will also be no slop and after what you have said I will restrict the front drivers. Going to keep to 32 mm gauge as for whatever reason my Ixion Hudswell Clark did not like the 31 mm gauge turnouts. Cab now assembled and will need some filling, also will need to get my head around the brass boiler and its relationship with the front splashers. Still enjoying the build, better get some 7 mm track sorted out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Did a bit more after the last post The boiler, smokebox and roof are just placed in position. Still quite pleasing. Next up is lots of filling and sanding, 2 places needed filling due to the hot iron in 2 places, some blemishes on the castings and just filling in the joints. I will use either Green Squadron Filler or Milleput. Just noticed the roof is not fitted in place correctly in the photo Still plenty of castings in the bags, a few or which are alternatives which will not be used. I may use some other bits I have I was hoping to use the water pump, but I cannot see any images with it on. The boiler will be fun as I will need to sirt it out to match the wheel splashers and it needs to miss the chimney spigot . The smoke box needs a clearance hole over the chassis fixing nut/bolt, I am also of a mind to drilling out some of the whitemetal in the chimney. There is a warning about using sprung buffers fouling the cylinders, so I may just stay with the cast ones The plan with the kit is helping me with some of the details. The sun is coming out and its gardening time after lunch Edited June 14, 2015 by hayfield 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 For the build you are doing with the metal front buffer plank and the wooden one at the rear it had injectors, not the donkey pump. It is going together nicely It seems quite quick to assemble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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