Simon Moore Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Forgive me please i have sinned yes I have done it , i've finally cracked & gone mad i must have done ..... I dug out of the cupboard today a MTK class 76 kit which i got off ebay some years ago & never ever built. As we all know MTK castings are enough to scare anyone into a cowering mess. Today i felt a bit kamakazi & decided to go into the ring with this kit & see if i could handle a few rounds of torment. I've always ready bad reports about these kits & when you look at the castings they really are awful, my kit didnt have any instructions & all the castings looked like a 5 year old made them but i thought i would have a go. I thought if i could put it together then i can build anything & well see what you think...... I didnt bother we the build photos i just did a finished product photo or 3. The thing what amazed me was it A didnt kick up to much of a fuss to the point where i was in a corner shaking & very pale with dilated eyes & B it actually captures the loco rather well to say the castings are awful & terribly rough. I'm not saying it's perfect but i am rather pleased at the outcome of the model so far which has egged me on to finish the model off & somehow motorise it. The Em1 is one of my favourite locos of all time & i am thinking of possibly doing a Msl hobbies model at some point in the future but for now i am going to bash this into a banger blue 76 which runs & pulls a rake of wagons. I did own until recently a hollywood foundary bullant fit for the class 76 which i bought from Dc kits but i am thinking of using the new msl hobbies motor bogies & scratch build a unit to hold the sideframes & motor bogies to the body. The only problam i think i might possibly have is building a frame from scratch because its something i've never attempted before. Let me know what you think. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Are the bogie side frames cast to the body sides? Sorry, can't tell from the pics. I think the best way to describe it (hope you don't mind!) is 'Agricultural'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselbob Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hi Simon My apologies, but Red Devils description of Agricultural is not far out, and that is no criticism of your efforts. You have got further than most people get with an MTK kit, all MTK kits are an absolute nightmare, and never quite look like they are supposed to, and we all know that it wont before we start building them, it seems to be a pennance that every modeller has to undergo at some time, just so you can appreciate how good every other makers kit are. You have survived so far without any major trauma it seems, and you are to be praised for that, but, the time has come to put it away in a dark cupboard, don't try to motorise it as that is Heart attack Material, and under no circumstances try to Glaze it, or the funny farm awaits. Oh the Memories... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Best of luck Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The 74 is looking good so far, Will Agree with Bob, the MTK kits are awful?! And a modelling confession I must make, I did actually think one time the MTK castings used in thier 73 kit "Might" be useful for adding to the Lima Model!!! ok Ive said it! How wrong was I?! ahem ... well moving on as with many models, Sometimes You think of them in the deepst Corner of your mind, and think to yourself "I wonder why I never finnished it??" many times Ive thought that thought, and gone back to a project! The MTK is bad, But depending on your skill, Id say you could Pull off a good model still, But have confidence in your abilities and all will hopefully prevail .. Best of luck NL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I think it actually looks the part, the 76's were very solid looking, and dare I say it, fairly basic even slightly crude perhaps. The basic elements of the design are strictly utilitarian and hark back to the mid 1930's. That they were still slogging away into the 1980's on MGRs and such is testament to their basic sound design, remember as well they used regenerative braking long before it became 'fashionable'. B) I presume it's whitemetal, and as such pretty weighty, so I would suggest using a hefty motor. Is the bogie wheelbase correct, and can you find a RTR motor bogie that matches? The DC kits resin ones suggested a modified Lima Western bogie, which is the route I have taken with almost all mine. The only ones I haven't have some kind of scratchbuilt frame with a double ended motor driving both axles. Of the two, only one runs and that is quite noisy. However fitting a Lima bogie could prove difficult with a whitemetal body as it is quite high and i'm not sure there would be enough clearance. Would any of the more modern chassis with central motor and shaft driven bogies be adaptable, the problem is the low roof area where the pantographs are fitted. As for glazing, just cut and shape each window as you go. Go on, you know you want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Are the bogie side frames cast to the body sides? Sorry, can't tell from the pics. I think the best way to describe it (hope you don't mind!) is 'Agricultural'. No the side frames are seperate castings at the minute it is only tack soldered to the inner frames so i could see the finished result. Hi Simon You have survived so far without any major trauma it seems, and you are to be praised for that, but, the time has come to put it away in a dark cupboard, don't try to motorise it as that is Heart attack Material, and under no circumstances try to Glaze it, or the funny farm awaits. Oh the Memories... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Best of luck Bob Bob the dark cupboard is resisting i think i might have MTKitis or some other illness haha, The glazing was the part i was worrying about a little because it is a messy inside & i know flushglazing is well out. The 74 is looking good so far, Will Agree with Bob, the MTK kits are awful?! And a modelling confession I must make, I did actually think one time the MTK castings used in thier 73 kit "Might" be useful for adding to the Lima Model!!! ok Ive said it! How wrong was I?! ahem ... well moving on as with many models, Sometimes You think of them in the deepst Corner of your mind, and think to yourself "I wonder why I never finnished it??" many times Ive thought that thought, and gone back to a project! The MTK is bad, But depending on your skill, Id say you could Pull off a good model still, But have confidence in your abilities and all will hopefully prevail .. Best of luck NL I think it actually looks the part, the 76's were very solid looking, and dare I say it, fairly basic even slightly crude perhaps. The basic elements of the design are strictly utilitarian and hark back to the mid 1930's. That they were still slogging away into the 1980's on MGRs and such is testament to their basic sound design, remember as well they used regenerative braking long before it became 'fashionable'. I presume it's whitemetal, and as such pretty weighty, so I would suggest using a hefty motor. Is the bogie wheelbase correct, and can you find a RTR motor bogie that matches? The DC kits resin ones suggested a modified Lima Western bogie, which is the route I have taken with almost all mine. The only ones I haven't have some kind of scratchbuilt frame with a double ended motor driving both axles. Of the two, only one runs and that is quite noisy. However fitting a Lima bogie could prove difficult with a whitemetal body as it is quite high and i'm not sure there would be enough clearance. Would any of the more modern chassis with central motor and shaft driven bogies be adaptable, the problem is the low roof area where the pantographs are fitted. As for glazing, just cut and shape each window as you go. Go on, you know you want to Great central yes it is whitemetal & your right a sound designed loco which did 30 years service on its native route. The motor i am thinking of using a bullant combo they do some nice bogies with shafts from a central engine or possibly 2 of the bullant motor bogies. Msl hobbies do these >>> http://www.msl-hobbies.com/page4.html which are for the class 76 kit they do. Before i go ahead with finishing this one i am tempted with the class 76 kit they do which is £59. I think possibly the etched version might tempt this one back into the cupboard to collect more dust. Another idea is possibly build this as a dummy loco which can be towed around the layout. The one thing i will say about MTK kits is for their time they gave you a crude model but of prototypes that wasnt on the market at the time & still arnt. I have always wanted to model the woodhead route but with these kits being a little tough to construct & dc kits version off the market it only leaves the msl version which has been updated to use rtr motor bogies which is a huge plus because no matter what you know it will run. I think i am going to have a bash at one of the msl versions see what i think it might push me into building a em2 afterwards. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The 74 is looking good so far.... Yeah, I think that's part of the problem with MTK products, this being a 76 I built their 'Western' in 1977 and it made an alarmingly convincing resemblance of a rake of Mermaid being propelled by the Fell, with a clown driving. On fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 ... The motor I am thinking of using a bullant combo they do some nice bogies with shafts from a central engine ... That's the way to do it, using an 1833 if you want something that will move that mass of whitemetal around without becoming distressed. For sure the mechanism will be significantly better than the body shell, but there you go. Don't even think about this lump as an unpowered unit in a double header; use it as the traction unit, have the nice etched one you build next as the passenger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruciethefish Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Considering the appalling quality of what you started with, I'd say that this is a very creditable effort.. It seems to have gone together pretty squarely, & there aren't any huge gaps obviously visible, which with an MTK is a result! Setting about it with some wire wool & filler will smooth out any lumps & bumps, & though comparatively crude, when motorised, it should pull a house down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 You have got further than most people get with an MTK kit, all MTK kits are an absolute nightmare, and never quite look like they are supposed to Aww, come on . I know it is fashionable to bash MTK but at the time they filled an important niche. Many loco classes were unavailable from other sources then and multiple units were almost unheard of. Yes the kits were quite rough and ready but with perseverence you could get something half-decent out of them. At least it was a lot easier than scratch-building, particularly for some of the more obscure prototypes. I have a soft spot for MTK kits and here are a class 313 and a class 83 just to prove it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward66 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 What a pity the Trix models were HO, as I recall they looked pretty good. Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I know MTK kits are awful but I to have a soft spot for them. I brought this class 73 off Ebay (£15)it was never built to run (it had been bolted to a plynth)as its been super detailed with the Craftsman kit plus lots of extra wires on the bogie sides and the bogies have been spray painted all over (sticking the wheels to the chasis). My poor photo does not do it justice, you can't see the joins. I have build a couple of MTK diesels, a Wagonbasher Rail bus which is comeing out realy well, and a couple of EMU's. Soon I will start on a Warship but these castings will need some serious work and I have a Bristol rail bus to build as well. Todays kits and RTR models are in a different class, but there is a charm to old whitemetal kits and the brass kits from Eames Jamieson etc. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 As promised earlier, here is my class 83. Please forgive the finish, I foolishly assumed that because trains have a gloss finish the model should too. Ahh well, we live and learn. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogman1969 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah, I think that's part of the problem with MTK products, this being a 76 I built their 'Western' in 1977 and it made an alarmingly convincing resemblance of a rake of Mermaid being propelled by the Fell, with a clown driving. On fire. pmpl !!!!!!!!!!! mtk , they do have a use you know , as ballast for kits .........there used to be a rumour that some of the white metal used was a by product from a nuke power plant .............however , in the bad old days , it was mtk or scratch build , so keep it on a shelf as a momento of times past ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Meh! MTK are good, compared to Q kits... And for the OP - good job on that EM1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 If you saw how and where Colin used to manufacture his kits you would be amazed - It was like a small winter wonderland but instead of snow there was talcum powder everywhere. Here is one of my sins! XF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Hi Simon My apologies, but Red Devils description of Agricultural is not far out, and that is no criticism of your efforts. You have got further than most people get with an MTK kit, all MTK kits are an absolute nightmare, and never quite look like they are supposed to, and we all know that it wont before we start building them, it seems to be a pennance that every modeller has to undergo at some time, just so you can appreciate how good every other makers kit are. You have survived so far without any major trauma it seems, and you are to be praised for that, but, the time has come to put it away in a dark cupboard, don't try to motorise it as that is Heart attack Material, and under no circumstances try to Glaze it, or the funny farm awaits. Oh the Memories... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Best of luck Bob if flush glazing is out due to the inside of the body castings, would some Glue n Glaze work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 They (MTK) dabbled in steam outline, I built two BR Standard 76xxx class moguls in the 1980's, they weren't bad, - there again they weren't that good either, since sold them both on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I must dig out my Class 155 and 156 which I purchased from Colin ready made, in the late 1980's, for £90 each !!!! XF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2012 I have almost bought kits from both MTK and Q - but have not, 1 of my Lima 50s has MTK bogie frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Allegedly the late Colin Massingham, the brains behind MTK (and the 7mm range marketed as "El Crappo" kits), never once bothered to consult a scale drawing or GA when planning his kits. He just did it all by eye. They (MTK) dabbled in steam outline, I built two BR Standard 76xxx class moguls in the 1980's, they weren't bad, - there again they weren't that good either... Ah, the Steamcast range. They were sh*te. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Reverting to the MTK 76, the biggest issue seems to be that the outlines of some of the windows are a bit rough and ready . The cab front noticeably. A thought - and I don't know if this is workable - it is possible to produce an overlay in say 10 thou plasticard (or just possibly very thin brass though that would be infinitely more difficult ) with cab front windows that are the right size and have sides that are dead straight? This could then be glued onto the top, raked, bit of the cab front. The upper light between the cab front windows would need to be reinstated but flush glaze could be inserted behind the overlay within enlarged openings in the whitemetal (at first glance the cab front windows look a bit large as well as slightly ragged) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Please forgive the finish, I foolishly assumed that because trains have a gloss finish the model should too. Ahh well, we live and learn. You've just been taken in by the gloss-is-evil-brigade... Weather over a shiny finish and the results can be excellent on diesels, electrics and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Found the pictures of the same DC Kits loco you've built. A truly hideous model that I've never seen anyone else complete - and I've know a few people that bought them. Porous distorted castings is the best way to describe them. Junk. ..... The earlier resin model wasn't any better.... I take it Charlie Petty no longer sells this kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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