Abandoned rolling stock in disconnected sidings

[fezza]

Why are sidings sometimes permanently disconnected before rolling stock is removed? There is a good case at Ancaster where a reasonably solid looking brake van was left in a siding disconnected from the main line. Are NR not required to remove stock before lifting connections? It seems very odd as it is surely very hard to recover stock thereafter?

[Reorte]

If its been sitting there for years its probably not going to be removable by rail anyway, so if NR don't want the land for anything else and do want to stop having to maintain the turnout it stays.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Reorte

[IWCR]

If  it  hasnt  been  maintained  &  serviced  it  wont  be  fit  to  run.  Possibly  also  left there  originally  with  a  defect.

In  some  cases  the  owner  of  the  stock  may  not  be  known  or  in  some  cases  there   is  no  owner,  the  stock  in  question  having  been  missed  when  similar  items  were  transferred to  one  of  the  new  companies.

Or  it  was  transferred  but  the  new  owner  isnt  aware  of   it,  or  the  owner  may  have  gone  bust  and  as  an  asset  it  wasnt  worth  recovery. by  a  receiver,  there  could  be  many  reasons.

Ownership  of  various  rolling  stock  items  was  in  a  state  on  confusion  after  privatisation,  I  am  sure  many  were  just  missed.

I  am  also  aware  of  some  items  sold  or  scrapped  by  operators  which  lately  turned  out  to  be  on  someone  elses  books.

Network  Rail  wont  normally  remove  abandoned  items,  this  costs  money,  if  they  are  in  the  way  they  will  likely  be  removed,  if  not  they  will  probably  remain  where  they  are.

I  am  aware  of  an  ex  railway  site  redeveloped  for  offices,  this  was  acquired  complete  with  trackwork  and  an  abandoned Tank  Wagon,  the  developer  having  to  clear  these.

 

Pete

[brianusa]

A very good prospect for model railways.  All too often we tend to model well used lines and features such as this are often overlooked as are weeds in our immaculately groomed main line track.  One has only to look at the real thing in a lot of places for inspiration,

 

Brian.

[Rugd1022]

On the Sutton Park line there are still a pair of ZCAs marooned on a short length of isolated track, with trees growing through them!

[Andy Hayter]

Simple answer:

 

Stock abandonded on a siding does not belong to NR.  Strictly they cannot remove it without informing the owners (if known) and in principle getting agreement,  

The best they can do is inform the owner or perhaps a series of companies who might be a likely owner, that if the item is not moved it will be cut off from the rest of the system on a specified date.

[newbryford]

On the Sutton Park line there are still a pair of ZCAs marooned on a short length of isolated track, with trees growing through them!

 

Likewise a pair of Sealion/Seacow near the site of Burnden Jn at Bolton.

 

They used to very visible on Google Earth, but not quite as much now. Dead centre on this: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5678881,-2.4197943,62m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Cheers,

Mick

[big jim]

I'm pretty sure they are gone now mick, removed when they started the electrification work, I've certainly not spotted them in the last 12 months, in fact the bolton bound loop has gone too!

 

They were stuff of legend when I was doing my driver training in Bolton back in 2001

Edited August 24, 2017 by big jim

[big jim]

There was a solitary 4 wheel drop side wagon in helsby, it may well still be there, not done a day time trip over there for a while

 

Also cockchute sidings in stoke is host to what I think is a SPA type wagon and longport up side has another 4 wheel hopper rotting away in the bushes, I have pics of both that if I can find will add to the thread

 

EDIT: piccies found

 

Longport

 

 

Cockshute

Edited August 24, 2017 by big jim

[TheSignalEngineer]

When the scrap contractors were lifting the old Down Yard at Stechford in the late 1960s there were still some wagons at the stop blocks. 

[pharrc20]

There is a RIV open plate 2-axle type wagon in the remains of the sidings at Northwich yard adjacent to the freight line and loop. The siding has also been home to two JEA limestone hoppers and an ex-coal HTA hopper for the past couple of months. Less obvious in amongst the trees on the other side of the main lines is a Grampus wagon.

 

Ah the Bolton Two a shame if they have gone now. Did someone manage to save them from the scrappers?

 

Paul

[Trog]

One of the sidings there is even older than the wagons having NSR chairs.

[Fat Controller]

 

 

 

 

One of the sidings there is even older than the wagons having NSR chairs.

 

This wagon, and another, had been used by Pooley's, the weighbridge suppliers, to carry test weights. They were already abandoned in these sidings (known as Pinnock Jct, IIRC) when I worked at Longport Yard in 1980.

[fezza]

It just seems odd in these days where there are environmental rules about everything that operators can abandon scrap or non operational stock in this way. I get the point about confusion over ownership but wouldn't ownership details be on the TOPS database or something similar?

[PaulRhB]

With several of the companies who had licenses being absorbed or going bust it has left wagons with no owner and no value as they would cost more to certify than their scrap value. We had 5 ex channel tunnel wagons dumped up the east yard headshunt for a couple of years after being stopped because control identified they were being moved without a valid certificate from Eastleigh. The company subsequently went bust and they sat blocking the headshunt which we used fairly frequently for charters shunt moves. It took us ages to get them removed as they were in a 'network siding' all operators are allowed to use. We had to prove an operational need for the siding and that they didn't have an owner to make the business case for the cost of removal. A crane and five lorries were needed as they couldn't be removed on rail due to no certificate. If they are on isolated track no ones going to be interested in removing them as they aren't in anyone's way until a project needs the land.

Edited August 25, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Fat Controller]

It just seems odd in these days where there are environmental rules about everything that operators can abandon scrap or non operational stock in this way. I get the point about confusion over ownership but wouldn't ownership details be on the TOPS database or something similar?

The probabilities are that the original operator has disappeared, anyone who remembers the vehicles and their location has died/moved/retired, and they may never have made it onto TOPS in the first place. It's not something that applies just to railways; any self-respecting farm will have a corner full of derelict equipment which might come in handy one day (if only they could find a Shire horse), likewise construction firms will have equipment that was written-down against the cost of a particular project, brought back to the yard, and forgotten about.

[fezza]

Interesting replies - many thanks. I suppose assets from defunct companies should pass into hands of administrators / liquidators but it is easy to see how these things get missed off asset registers.

[russ p]

There is a southern brake van in the disconnected down refuge at Manea

[Siberian Snooper]

Last time I looked the lowland that was propelled over the stop blocks at Tavi Junction yards was still sitting in the undergrowth gently mouldering away, I think that was way back in the '80s.

[Wild Boar Fell]

I believe there is a thread of a similar vein elsewhere on the forum, it was believed that a pair of Cartic-4 style rakes still existed on a severed siding in Dagenham.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Wild Boar Fell

[Hesperus]

They are just waiting there until a single middle aged man wins the Euromillions and has them and 50 or so classic cars restored to sit on them. 

[John M Upton]

There was a well wagon at New Cross Gate for decades which only finally went when the East London Line extension works went in.  Are the BR Blue Mk1 GUV and CCT vans still lurking at Oxford Station still?

Edited August 25, 2017 by John M Upton

[PhilJ W]

And theres also the Shenfield Shark.

[Dava]

It's the ghost fleet of wagons....what's hiding in the bushes at Healey Mills, Great Rocks Dale, Slough, Fort William....?

 

Dava

[John M Upton]

There is this old Mk1 CCT at Three Bridges:

Ex British Railways Mk 1 CCT Internal User Van 083602 (Formerly M94494) - Three Bridges Station 18/5/15 by John Upton, on Flickr

I used to think it was grounded but in fact it is still sitting on its running gear in the old goods bay on an isolated section of track and has been there for as long as I can remember.