Peterborough North

[tetleys]

Hornby doesnt know about the green J6's named after Yorkshire puddings....

 

Aye up Pudding

ETC

Rag Pudding

Spotted Dick Pudding

Theres now't init fer me Pudding

And Coachman doesn't know that most Yorkshire of puddings. ...................the Tom Puddings. the early square tub shaped barges long trains of which were pulled along the Aire and calder canals from pits round the West Riding to Goole where they were lifted out of the canal to be loaded into awaiting ships for export. I'm not sure whether I ever saw a green J6 carrying such a name though.

 

I visited Peterborough North today and as usual there were plenty of new locos to underline in my ABC, they were all beautifully turned out in varying levels of weathering and all looking very much at home. I can also confirm that Gilbert must have been a very good boy this year because Santa dilivered a brand new Hornby B17 Grimsby Town to him just after lunch and whilst we checked out his layout. I'm actually not sure kids have to be well behaved before Santa visits because according to Mrs. Tetleys I'm certainly not in that category but nevertheless I received a most welcome Christmas surprise.

 

Gilbert gave me a 'layout warming present' a superb and bespoke Hornby B.1 61023 Hirola complete with an Ardsley shed plate (And a DCC chip)! I had my very first experience of DCC operation as Hirola circulated through Peterborough North, light engine. Sorry no photographs because Gilbert's hands were 'all of a dither' as he finally managed to extract his new B17 for closer inspection, Hornby certainly take no chances of damage during transit.

 

I would like to thank Gilbert very much for his 'layout warming gift' to me and to Tim for his own input in turning a great loco into a masterpiece, the weathering is brilliant as it is on Gilbert's own recent additions to his meagre collection.

[Timara]

Gilbert gave me a 'layout warming present' a superb and bespoke Hornby B.1 61023 Hirola complete with an Ardsley shed plate (And a DCC chip)! I had my very first experience of DCC operation as Hirola circulated through Peterborough North, light engine. Sorry no photographs because Gilbert's hands were 'all of a dither' as he finally managed to extract his new B17 for closer inspection, Hornby certainly take no chances of damage during transit.

 

I would like to thank Gilbert very much for his 'layout warming gift' to me and to Tim for his own input in turning a great loco into a masterpiece, the weathering is brilliant as it is on Gilbert's own recent additions to his meagre collection.

 

My pleasure Dave. Even though it did at two points cause me a bit of angst (thanks to Hornby's over-use of lube oil almost ruining the finish), I was satisfied with the end result. I've posted photos over here in my weathering thread.

 

I look forward to seeing it earning its keep on Upper Batley in the fullness of time!

 

Cheers,

[LNER4479]

Any idea (you fully experienced LNER/ER kit builders) how the LR kit goes together (in comparison to [say] a DJH)? If it is easy enough for me I might try to build one and then 'insulate' the old boiler (and make the kit quieter as well ).

 

Hi 60022,

 

You didn't appear to get any response to this (unless others PM'd you?). I hardly dare categorise myself as a 'fully experienced LNER/ER kit builder' but I do happen to be making a LRM D2 for my project at the moment, which is similar in complexity to J6 you might say. You can check it out in my thread #102. The main difference is that the LRM kit is 100% etched brass and nickel silver; every DJH kit I've known uses (beautifully created) whitemetal parts for the boiler/firebox, and sometimes other superstructure items as well. I guess this makes the LRM kit a little more time-consuming by comparison.

 

It a beautifully engineered kit though and I am thoroughly enjoying putting it together. Just working on the front end at the moment, fitting the lifeguards and the buffers. I shall be posting further progress shortly.

 

Sorry to hijack thread GN - but he did ask!

[great northern]

It's not my fault that new things keep appearing. Temptation is put in my path.

 

This is a special working from "somewhere in East Anglia".Being deliberately vague? Am I? It's the only way I can think of to avoid upsetting Andy Rush.And why are emoticons still greyed out? Here's another photo.

 

 

And another.

 

 

I reckon this one is even better than the Sandringham. It captures the appearance of a Footballer exactly, and the new Hornby green is so much better. That, coupled with the fact that the lining is less heavy and garish than Bachmann's, makes this for me at least the best RTR rendition of Brunswick Green yet. We will celebrate the fact with another photo.

 

 

And one from a new angle.

 

 

And finally, the classic side on shot. This has been well worth waiting for - one of my all time favourite classes of loco produced in such a stunning form, I really could not ask for more, except maybe that more Footballers had been shedded a bit further North. And how could I now have this weathered into the condition shown in that photo a while ago? Sacrilege!

 

 

I shall have to have some more of these.

[davidw]

Very pretty engine. Mine's packed under the tree!

[landscapes]

Hi Gilbert

 

Very nice photo.

 

I can't wait for Tottenham Hotspur to come out.

 

David

[andyrush]

Looks in pristine condition, considering that it is withdrawn

[great northern]

Looks in pristine condition, considering that it is withdrawn

Withdrawn September 1958 Andy, and my layout is set in August of that year, with just a little bit of leeway in either direction. But yes, I now know that 1650 was in filthy condition in her last days, and I suspect my back up excuse, that she stopped off at March on the way to Doncaster for cutting up, and owing to a shortage of locos March decided to use her for a little while...... no? thought not.But had that happened, March would have cleaned her up surely? Alright I give up. She will become 1653 in due course.

 

Which reminds me, I have been meaning to ask you this. 1630 is shown as transferred from Stratford to March in July 1958, but as withdrawn in September of that year. Is it likely that it worked from March at all, or was it one of those paper transfers?

[andyrush]

SNIPPED

 

Which reminds me, I have been meaning to ask you this. 1630 is shown as transferred from Stratford to March in July 1958, but as withdrawn in September of that year. Is it likely that it worked from March at all, or was it one of those paper transfers?

No, I think it would have been the last hurrah for 1630 to help out on the holiday passenger services for a couple of months - the RO for the period might say something. This undated picture http://www.themodelcentre.co.uk/images/uploads/B17/61630.jpg

shows the engine at March with what looks like a 31B shedplate and a full tender of coal, but of course this could have been during her earlier sojourns at there up to 1951 and again briefly in 1954. I don't have Yeadon so I don't know if she ever got the later crest.

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

she stopped off at March on the way to Doncaster for cutting up, and owing to a shortage of locos March decided to use her for a little while

 

Didn't exactly that happen to Hull City which had already had the nameplate removed and she ran for a short time with Borstal - Schools Class chalked on the splasher?

Edited December 23, 2012 by jwealleans

[great northern]

No, I think it would have been the last hurrah for 1630 to help out on the holiday passenger services for a couple of months - the RO for the period might say something. This undated picture http://www.themodelcentre.co.uk/images/uploads/B17/61630.jpg

shows the engine at March with what looks like a 31B shedplate and a full tender of coal, but of course this could have been during her earlier sojourns at there up to 1951 and again briefly in 1954. I don't have Yeadon so I don't know if she ever got the later crest.

 

Andy

She had her last general overhaul in October 1956 Andy, so would have still had early crest. She went to March in '58 from Stratford, so is hardly likely to have been in pristine condition on arrival. Would the March cleaners have got to work on her do you think?

[great northern]

 

Didn't exactly that happen to Hull City which had already had the nameplate removed and she ran for a short time with Borstal - Schools Class chalked on the splasher?

Hull City is a strange case Jonathan. Last general in December 1957, and every B17 that arrived at Doncaster after April 1958 did not get a general overhaul. 1660 arrived at Doncaster on 4th February 1959, over two years after last overhaul, and yet received a casual light repair instead of going straight onto the scrap line. The name plates were if I recall correctly sold to the eponymous club and removed, but the engine was transfered to March in January 1960, and soldiered on till the very end in June of that year. I can't find any record of withdrawal and reinstatement.

 

I remember seeing her at Lincoln on the early morning March - Doncaster stopper in filthy condition but without the unofficial name. However when browsing the web a while ago I found a photo of her at Wellingborough of all places, and the "nameplate" was definitely there then.

 

Can Andy Rush enlighten us on this one I wonder?

Edited December 23, 2012 by great northern

[Guest Tom F]

Hull City is a strange case Jonathan. Last general in December 1957, and every B17 that arrived at Doncaster after April 1958 did not get a general overhaul. 1660 arrived at Doncaster on 4th February 1959, over two years after last overhaul, and yet received a casual light repair instead of going straight onto the scrap line. The name plates were if I recall correctly sold to the eponymous club and removed, but the engine was transfered to March in January 1960, and soldiered on till the very end in June of that year. I can't find any record of withdrawal and reinstatement.

 

I remember seeing her at Lincoln on the early morning March - Doncaster stopper in filthy condition but without the unofficial name. However when browsing the web a while ago I found a photo of her at Wellingborough of all places, and the "nameplate" was definitely there then.

 

Can Andy Rush enlighten us on this one I wonder?

 

Am I right Gilbert that 1660 was one of the B17s to retain it's original type boiler and never get a 100A boiler? I guess with the coming of Diesel Traction, it didn't seem worth some being rebuilt.

[great northern]

Am I right Gilbert that 1660 was one of the B17s to retain it's original type boiler and never get a 100A boiler? I guess with the coming of Diesel Traction, it didn't seem worth some being rebuilt.

Yes Tom, always had the Dia 100 boiler. Another conundrum though. Thorpe Hall ex plant 23/11/57, rebuilt to Part 6 with Dia 100A boiler, but Hull City, which came into Plant while Thorpe Hall was still there emerged a month later still with Dia 100. Curious. Oh, and 1631 Serlby Hall had been rebuilt to Part 6, leaving works on 7/10/57.

[andyrush]

The only light I can throw on 1660 is that somehow the loco was a 'beneficiary' of the somewhat chaotic process of introducing diesels into East Anglia. The theory seems to have been that as the EE 2000hp Type 4's took over the Liverpool Street - Norwich trains, Britannia's would be transferred to March to replace the V2's which would then go to other ER sheds. Similarly, as other lower powered diesels replaced them, B1's from all East Anglian sheds would gradually filter to March to replace the B17's and K3's there. As can be seen by looking at the actual transfers, nothing so smooth and orderly actually happened. The Brit's seemed to have been cordially disliked by March men and this was reflected in some of the jobs they were given. Similarly, poor condition B1's were not seen as equivalent to the 31B B17's or even the K3's.

 

I wasn't aware of the works situation of 1660, but if it didn't require much work when it got to Doncaster, it could well have been patched up and sent back to Lowestoft for a few months before being ousted by diesels, finishing up at March, where it suffered from the reduction in cleaning that was taking place as a result of driver training on diesels.

 

Andy

[D1001]

Whilst admiring the dedication involved in putting together this database (as one who has been involved in an infrastructure database for the last 30+ years), at the moment it needs treating with some caution as the following will demonstrate (with apologies for the Sweedy bias!)

 

 

B17 61626 Brancepeth Castle

 

BRD

32A at 01.01.1948

31C w/e 06.12.1958

31B w/e 11.04.1959

31A w/e 12.12.1959

WDN 11.01.1960

 

Actual

32A at 01.01.1948

31B by --.08.1950

31C w/e 06.12.1958

31B w/e 11.04.1959

31A w/e 12.12.1959

WDN --.12.1959

 

B17 61641 Gayton Hall

 

BRD

31A at 01.01.1948

WDN 28.01.1960

 

Actual

31A at 01.01.1948

31B by --.08.1950

WDN --.02.1960

 

I'm not bothered about the withdrawal dates (difference between 'shed' and 'official' dates?), but to a casual reader some of the present information will give a false impression, and this includes the 'snapshots', which is what first highlighted the problem to me by consistently understating the March depot allocation.

 

Nevertheless, I recognise a project of this nature will always be a 'work in progress' and wish the compiler(s) the best of luck

 

Andy

I am in the proecess of putting the allocations between 1948 and 1950 in - that is what is causing that problem - it is a work in progress and that is part that hasn't been finished yet - I really should make that clear on the front page ...

[great northern]

Today we have had light. I shall not be churlish by complaining that there was too much of it. Anyway, it allowed some more shots, which are I suppose my Christmas card to all of you who visit here. I've no idea how to do snow scenes or other such stuff, so it is still August 1958 in Peterborough.

 

 

Here is that now familiar scene looking North, but with quite a lot more than usual going on. Grantham A3 Persimmon is on the 5.35pm KX - Newcastle, while an Ivatt 4 arrives from South Lynn. In the distance a WD waits on the Down slow, the crew probably hoping that they won't get the road even after the express has gone, because overtime pay is not far away. On the engine road is a ghost, as the last J3 was withdrawn some years ago, allegedly, but this is the one that got away. Behind her is the District Engineere's sentinel. Four for the price of one eh!

 

 

And now the same scene, but looking from near Spital Bridge.

 

 

We've zoomed in more, so no more WD, but too much sunlight.

 

 

A couple of steps to one side....... Avoiding the running lines of course.

 

 

And a bit more zoom again.

 

 

Someone else must have taken this one, no way would I have been allowed across the main lines with all this going on, if at all.

[Guest Tom F]

I really love the grey overcast sky, it compliments the rather grubby crimson and cream Gresley stock.

[fishytrains]

Great photos of a very busy scene. Thank you for sharing your layout with us Gilbert. Have a great Christmas.

 

Mike

[great northern]

The only light I can throw on 1660 is that somehow the loco was a 'beneficiary' of the somewhat chaotic process of introducing diesels into East Anglia. The theory seems to have been that as the EE 2000hp Type 4's took over the Liverpool Street - Norwich trains, Britannia's would be transferred to March to replace the V2's which would then go to other ER sheds. Similarly, as other lower powered diesels replaced them, B1's from all East Anglian sheds would gradually filter to March to replace the B17's and K3's there. As can be seen by looking at the actual transfers, nothing so smooth and orderly actually happened. The Brit's seemed to have been cordially disliked by March men and this was reflected in some of the jobs they were given. Similarly, poor condition B1's were not seen as equivalent to the 31B B17's or even the K3's.

 

March men seem to have been very conservative Andy? I've often wondered why there were no B1's shedded there right up until the demise of the last B17's - presumably the GE influence was still strong. One could always tell that the B17's there were highly regarded just by looking at the way they were turned out.

 

I've often wondered also if certain locos were traditionally used on particular routes. I must have observed March engines on the Harwich - Liverpool boat train at Lincoln for five years, and whilst some locos were seen heading it, others never seemed to turn up at all, and that applied to the locals on the GN/GE as well. Come to think of it, the Doncaster - Peterborough North train via Boston, which was well photographed, was the same too.Thus the likes of 1619/26/27/38/41/43 were very regular visitors, while for example 1621/33/45/46 I don't remember seeing at all.

 

The same thing occurs with Cambridge shed's 1652. Almost every single photo I have ever seen of it, and it was a well photographed engine, was on the Cambridge - Kings Cross trains. The rare exceptions usually show it on the Boat train at Lincoln or Sheffield! Can you, or anyome else, cast any light on this?

 

I wasn't aware of the works situation of 1660, but if it didn't require much work when it got to Doncaster, it could well have been patched up and sent back to Lowestoft for a few months before being ousted by diesels, finishing up at March, where it suffered from the reduction in cleaning that was taking place as a result of driver training on diesels.

 

Andy

[great northern]

Sorry folks, the previous post got scrambled somewhat. Still comprehensible I hope?

[andyrush]

Yes, March men were conservative! It probably reflected the high average age of the top link drivers who worked the passenger jobs. I never did get a straight answer from people I spoke to at March about how actual engines were rostered, but I suspect that the main Joint Line B17 jobs were individual engines for specific drivers and that they weren't used on much else. This would be relatively easy to accomplish, given that the depots passenger engine workings were nearly all daytime jobs. Some of the diesel workings in later days were almost as exclusive, with EE Type 3's with known 'good' boilers rarely being seen on freight workings.

 

Are you sure that the sightings of 1652 at Lincoln weren't on the summertime 9.8am/9.15am (MFO, TWTHOQ) Cambridge - Manchester Central which acted as a relief to the 'Boat Train' proper, and was a 31A B17 job to Sheffield Victoria? The train should be identifiable in photos on the down journey by the lack of a restaurant car as the second vehicle from the engine.

 

Andy

[mikemeg]

Gilbert,

 

What a great joy this thread has been, throughout this year.

 

May I wish you a very merry Christmas and a happy, healthy and properous New Year. Finally, may I thank you for creating a model of a railway which, quite simply, just 'tells it like it was' for those of us who were fortunate enough to see it and for the many more who never saw those halcyon days.

 

Days when steam reigned supreme and when the railway was a truly wondrous thing to behold.

 

Very best regards

 

Mike

[Gravy Train]

Hi All,

may I also take this opportunity to thank Gilbert for this very absorbing thread and for his time posting up regularly to keep this thread going and with some greart photoshots, to thank everyone for there kind comments , it is much apreciated and very encouraging.

 

May I wish you all a very Happy Christmas and prosperous New year and look forward to next year to see Peterborough North develope even further.

 

cheers

Peter A L

[Guest Tom F]

Merry Christmas Gilbert!

May I thank you for all the help you have given me personally over the last 2 years, and the enjoyment your thread has created.

Here's to 2013!