Bob Reid Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Why would the ten years in Inter-City Blue & Grey that the same Mk3a's spent running up & down the WCML be a very narrow window? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Because there are still blue grey loco hauled coaches from the initial batches for sale, on push pull they were introduced in 1979 and went into Scotrail livery in 1984 so it's 5 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 10 years in Inter-City blue & Grey on the WCML and as first used on the P&P from 79/80 neither dates make any difference - they don't produce accurate Mk3a's anyway so it would mean re-tooling and not using HST trailers painted up to look like loco-hauled stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If you read my post it specified SC prefix b/g coaches not WCML, but you know it's not really worth the argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'm sure most folk could manage a bit of renumbering - getting accurate Mk3a's is more of an issue for me at least and it would be a good opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Last year I nearly snapped up a rake of loco hauled MKIIIs just in case when Hattons had them at £11 a pop. A missed opportunity if ever there was one, specially as I now have 26 and 27s in my stock list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 No doubt some MKIII.Scotrail coaches would help Farish with its sales of 47/7s but that would only work in that one livery and I doubt Dapol would chance.a range of loco hauled sc prefixed MKIIIs in blue grey which is a very narrow window.Eh? The rakes were in BG for the at least half their life on the service so not that narrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted March 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2013 Cant wait for Dapol dave to get his MK 3 in Scotrail livery plus of course the CO variation. Loco plus 4 or 5 Mk 3s look very good and ofcourse that well known rule applied - just started a second DBSO conversion ! ho hum Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Why would the ten years in Inter-City Blue & Grey that the same Mk3a's spent running up & down the WCML be a very narrow window? Because there are still blue grey loco hauled coaches from the initial batches for sale, on push pull they were introduced in 1979 and went into Scotrail livery in 1984 so it's 5 years. Only 7 FO's and 27TSO's were taken from the WCML for the new push-pull SCR sets in 1979. The remaing Mk3a coaches stayed on the WCML, therefore equating to around ten years. (The first Executive repaint to an FO being in May 1984 at the same time as 87006 and 87012). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Am I correct in assuming the major visual difference between a HST MK3 and MK3a is the roof vents? Also, am I correct in assuming that the Dapol MK3s have the roof as a separate moulding (for easy fitting of the light bar)? If so I have the following suggestion for Dapol Dave to consider... Tooling cost for a new roof (or more if you want to cover the buffets) should be considerably lower than for a whole new coach, and the big thing is whether there is demand out there for it. If people are happy enough to go with the wrong roofs, then there's little point tooling up the variant(s). It strikes me as a perfect Kickstarter campaign as you'll quickly determine if there is an upgraders' market out there and get an opportunity to pre-sell some of a next production batch with the updated roofs. Your basic £1 pledge just indicates that you'd like to see them produced, maybe your £10 pledge gets you 3 unpainted roofs (with an option to pre-order more) should the goal be hit etc. You can weave the option to pre-order the updated models into it all as well. A stretch goal could involve tooling up the buffets (and ambitiously maybe the BFO for the adventurous to bodge from the forthcoming TGS?). Whether the goal is hit or not, Dapol will have a very good indication of the level of demand for such an update. Then of course there's the possibility of doing a campaign for producing a CDL-less version (but that's a different ball park cost wise I should think). Edited March 14, 2013 by frobisher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well you'll need to convince us that we can make a return for our investment. Now a tool (single tool) for just the roof will be expensive (say £3k) so we'd need to sell 3000 at £1.00 each to pay for the tool, not including the 1000 roof mouldings, packing, shipping etc So Frobisher, my challenge to you is this....... 1) if it's such a good idea give me the money and i'll do you the tooling for you to make the money (loss or profit) from, or 2) get me 3000 sales (minimum) for the roof replacement and i'll see then if its viable. now a back of the fag packet answer would be no, but if the market is truly there please prove me wrong (as yes i'd be truly pleased to be so) Then dont get me started on coach bodies at £6k for the body tool then the chassis tool if the underframe is different, then the glazing tool...........its not somewhere i wish to go, but again if the demand is there.......etc. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2013 I would have 18 roofs for my loco hauled sets. So that leaves only another 2982 to find a home for! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted March 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'd have at least 20, though I might look at getting one 3D printed. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well you'll need to convince us that we can make a return for our investment. Now a tool (single tool) for just the roof will be expensive (say £3k) so we'd need to sell 3000 at £1.00 each to pay for the tool, not including the 1000 roof mouldings, packing, shipping etc So Frobisher, my challenge to you is this....... 1) if it's such a good idea give me the money and i'll do you the tooling for you to make the money (loss or profit) from, or 2) get me 3000 sales (minimum) for the roof replacement and i'll see then if its viable. now a back of the fag packet answer would be no, but if the market is truly there please prove me wrong (as yes i'd be truly pleased to be so) That's why I mentioned Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com) It's intended for exactly this kind of project, and your back of the fag packet calculations are actually more encouraging than I'd hoped. My gut feel is that an initial goal of £6,000 is where you'd need to be at (there are some fees to come out so income will be about £5,000 ish after fees should the goal be reached) which is 600 pledges of £10 which is not outside the realms of possibility for a KS campaign. Obviously the pledge levels (and rewards) would need to be carefully structured, but if correctly run the campaign will be able to tell you if it's viable through what are essentially committed pre-orders for the reward parts and it will allow the structuring in of pre-orders for the updated tooling coaches as well. If it doesn't hit it's funding goal, then you can point to that result and say "told you so". The "only" investment is the time and effort to run the Kickstarter campaign. Then dont get me started on coach bodies at £6k for the body tool then the chassis tool if the underframe is different, then the glazing tool...........its not somewhere i wish to go, but again if the demand is there.......etc. cheers Kind of thought that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Am I correct in assuming the major visual difference between a HST MK3 and MK3a is the roof vents? Also, am I correct in assuming that the Dapol MK3s have the roof as a separate moulding (for easy fitting of the light bar)? If so I have the following suggestion for Dapol Dave to consider... Tooling cost for a new roof (or more if you want to cover the buffets) should be considerably lower than for a whole new coach, and the big thing is whether there is demand out there for it. If people are happy enough to go with the wrong roofs, then there's little point tooling up the variant(s). The buffets had the same end vents as HSTs so don't come into this equation, just the TSOs and FOs (the loco hauled RUBs and HST TRUBs were, buffers apart, almost identical, at least in model terms - but not real life as they were wired differently). The early pattern roof could also open up the possibilty of a Prototype HST at some stage, of course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Cheers Bernard! Slightly less to worry about on that front than I'd feared. I'm currently picking a few experienced Kickstarter brains at the moment on unrelated projects (though related to my business) so I might be able to gauge the viability of this quite soon - I'll report back when I know a little more (and perhaps have something a bit more concrete for DapolDave). Edited March 20, 2013 by frobisher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted March 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 Hello all, In case no one has noticed, C&M models have commissioned Dapol to produce ScotRail liveried Mk3s to go with the forthcoming Farish 47/7 and DBSO. There is a thread on this at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69564-cm-models-commission-scotrail-mark-3s/ cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 And, of course, the ScotRail Mk.3s were loco hauled coaches that came from the WCML, so had the 'early' type end roof vents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR_Blue_1986 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Does anyone know when we will expect the delivery of fgw 2nd's and 1st's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR460 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) full set of farish swallows tgs and buffet with interiors all mint. in the accurate shade of paint for swallow unlike later farish and early Dapol for sale. Admin edit: Ebay link removed in accordance with the rules of the forum Edited March 26, 2013 by Mod4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattmeister Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Any update on the fgw 1st and 2nd coaches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) 600 pledges of £10 I wouldn't consider interest if the cost wa £10 per roof However, I myself currently require 30 such roofs for my loco hauled Mark 3A TSO, FO and CO coaches \ When you consider that is 1% of the minimum order required by Dapol... Edited May 24, 2013 by mjkerr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I wouldn't consider interest if the cost wa £10 per roof However, I myself currently require 30 such roofs for my loco hauled Mark 3A TSO, FO and CO coaches \ When you consider that is 1% of the minimum order required by Dapol... It wouldn't be £10 a roof in any case, it would be a pledge of £10 which would in all likely hood secure you a number of roofs if the project was successfully funded. Also it's not 1%. £30 is 1% of the tooling cost DapolDave mentioned above. The Kickstarter campaign would need to raise £6K in pledges because you have fees (to Amazon and Kickstarter for the transaction), material, production and mailing costs to deduct from that in addition to the tooling. Kickstarter (and the others...) are crowdfunding bodies. They are about raising capital through donation pledges (not investment - it's very clear about that) to enable projects to go forward. There may, or may not be rewards for pledges of certain levels, and that is why an awful lot of projects now are (successful) pre-ordering schemes for some companies' products. If sufficient interest isn't present, no one in billed, and no obligation to produce the project is expected. Crowdfunding is extensively (and successfully) used by the wargaming and roleplaying hobbies, film funding, computer peripherals, and less successfully for computer games. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruff Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 You could put me down for 12 roofs at the moment and another 8 for the C and M Scotrail ones when they are available. Has the kicksarter campaign come to fruition yet? Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 There's no Kickstarter campaign just yet. I've got a lot of other distractions at the moment (including, bizarrely another non-related Kickstarter campaign an affiliate company is working on) and am still fact finding on certain aspects of this, but it's not something I'd be personally comfortable running myself. It's one of those things that would work best run directly by the manufacturer (certain infrastructure is already in place, and certainly reputation is - people don't know me from Adam in hobby manufacturing) but first a sound case needs to be made to take the risk of running the campaign as there are costs involved there (production of the video, supporting materials, time of those involved etc.) regardless of whether it reaches its target(s) or not. My interest in this is enabling correct roofs for the loco hauled MK3s and their inclusion in future production for Dapol, not to have a little business selling the parts for upgraders. If the Kickstarter campaign happened, you'd place your pre-orders via that in effect. If you wait for it to be successfully funded in all likelihood it won't happen as you're exactly the kind of person that should be pledging support Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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