vac_basher Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I enjoyed building the Minilok (visable here: http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1 ) so much that I've decided on a more involved scratchbuild..... The Armstrong Whitworth D9 1-Co-1 diesel locomotive. Built in 1933 and often forgotten as the first mainline diesel to run in the UK. Infact, untill quite reccently I didn't know about it myself. I'd always assumed the LMS Twins had been the first mainline diesel locos to run in the UK. So I was very curious about this machine..... There's some photos and history of it here: http://www.derbysulzers.com/aw.html (where my drawing also came from, thanks!!) I've never seen a model of this, and I can't really see Heljan doing this one (but it wouldn't surprise me if they did! ) So I thought I'll have a go at knocking one up myself. After some research, elaborate plans were made, and the neccesary material was sourced over the past few weeks. Today I was finally ready to make a start on construction. Unlike the Minilok which I regreated having rushed because it could have been so much better if I had of taken my time, on this one I'm going to go at a more relaxed pace and hopefully achieve better results. So, here's the foto of todays progress..... The chassis/floor and half the frames! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you're going to model this loco then I would have a look at http://www.rcts.org.uk/shop/publications/Armstrong%20Whitworth.htm , even if you only borrow it from the library. It gives a fascinating insight into the work of Armstrong Whitworth in the field of diesel traction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks Bernard, I'll have to see if I can get hold of a copy of that.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Will you be having a go at the Beyer-Ljungstrom turbine engine next? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 My goodness Horsetan! That is an odd machine! But I think I'll pass on that one It amazes me sometimes how many locos there are/were out there that I'd never even heard of.... Oh, while I'm here I'd like to make an information appeal. I've already asked the question here: http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1 but I'll ask it again, as it seems I wasn't technically asking for the correct part Therefore, does anybody know if any cast (metal or plastic, I don't mind) sandboxes, recessed footsteps, and suspention springs are available, suitable for this loco I'm knocking up? I hope I can get my hands on something because it would save allot of work and the results would certainly be better. Fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This machine came up on here some time ago. I think that I introduced it as competition for Chards "favourite" loco. It was probably Mike Edge who then joined in with some more details. Looking forward to progress as it is a groundbreaking machine from the world leader in heavy engineering. Not too sure how good the drawing is as from memory a couple of areas do not quite tie up. I presume you are using the drawing that I have seen as I know of no other. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 They are quite characterful. The same drawing is in the book too. I've got something similar on the go myself, albeit a little smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Will you be having a go at the Beyer-Ljungstrom turbine engine next? Hi All, I am glad someone else is into the Museum of Retro Technology website - absolutely brilliant isn't it Horse? For those prepared to lose several hours of their life going through it (!) the address is: http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/museum.htm The railway wing is the first port of call for us train geeks but the rest is equally fascinating! Carbonic Acid powered engine or combat cutlery anyone? Sorry to go off topic. All the best, Castle Edit: Sorry, accidently clicked post before I had finished! I am really interested by early and prototype locos either steam or diesel - they are a great choice of subject. I will enjoy this thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Bernard Lamb, the drawing I'm using is the one on the derbysulzers.com website. I had to esstimate some of the dimentions, so my model won't be spot-on. Bernard TPM, similar design! That one's a 2-Co-2 (or 4-6-4 in old money) "my" one's a 1-Co-1 (2-6-2). Armstrong & Whitworth did allot for export, so I guess that must be one that went over seas. I notice the single buffer and over all height of about 9ft. Would I be correct in assuming it is narrow gauge? By any chance do any colour photos of these loco's exist? I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'm wondering what colour I'll have to paint it Anyhow, here's a foto of todays progress. Appologies for the poor quality, I took it with my phone.... As soon as I have something that vaguly begins to look like a locomotive I'll get the camera out and take some proper snaps. Could anybody kindly point me in the right way as to how I should go about doing the bodyside vents? Also, as this is only my second scratchbuild (and my first had a flat roof) could you kindly tell what the usual procedure for doing the roof would be? That roof has already caused me to loos a fair ammount of sleep. I was looking for a suitable sized cardboard tube and I was thinking of making a resin casting of it, but there must be more straight forward ways..... What if i were to build the general profile of the roof up using strips of plastic and then putting filler over it and smoothing it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hi Vac Basher Any ideas on powering the loco? It is one I have shyed away from because I am not that good an engineer to design a drive system for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hi Clive I'm building this model just for the fun of it. I have no need for it because it doesn't fit in with any of my layouts ( Come to think of it, neither does my Deltic Prototype; DP2; Lion; Kestral; Falcon; or the LMS Twins) so I don't plan to stick a motor in it. So it will just be a static model. To have it powered would have made it double superflous! But I wouldn't have thought it would have been too complicated.... Could you not do something with an old Lima/Hornby motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 ...I am glad someone else is into the Museum of Retro Technology website - absolutely brilliant isn't it Horse?... Steam for steampunks! Now, how about a "new build" Turbomotive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Bernard TPM, similar design! That one's a 2-Co-2 (or 4-6-4 in old money) "my" one's a 1-Co-1 (2-6-2). Armstrong & Whitworth did allot for export, so I guess that must be one that went over seas. I notice the single buffer and over all height of about 9ft. Would I be correct in assuming it is narrow gauge? Yes, it's narrow gauge. As well as locos they did build, it's clear that there was a lot of design studies for locos that didn't get built too. The book goes into some detail on proposals put to the GWR, but at the end there's an appendix listing many others too. But you can never have enough old British diesels Could anybody kindly point me in the right way as to how I should go about doing the bodyside vents? If you scale up the grilles you should be able to calculate the height of the slats. You should be able to get close to one of the 'standard' thicknesses for plasticard (20/30/40 thou." at a guess). If you cut an edge square and clean, then scrawk an angle along the edge, you can then use this to make a 'pile' of slats for the grilles which, when hard, can be set into the bodyside. Alternatively, find something moulded with the correct pitch grilles and cut into appropriate sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hi Clive I'm building this model just for the fun of it. I have no need for it because it doesn't fit in with any of my layouts ( Come to think of it, neither does my Deltic Prototype; DP2; Lion; Kestral; Falcon; or the LMS Twins) so I don't plan to stick a motor in it. So it will just be a static model. To have it powered would have made it double superflous! But I wouldn't have thought it would have been too complicated.... Could you not do something with an old Lima/Hornby motor? Hi I have looked at a Hornby pancake. There are two holes for the bearings on at 29 mm from the centre axle and one at 25 mm, a little under but that is not too much of a problem. The same basic casting was used for tender drives, that would give 4 ft driving wheels and spoked. Just need the gear wheels from a Western for the short wheel base end. Pick ups on the pony trucks as the driving wheels will have traction tyres. There was an article on building this loco in a very old Model Railway News (or not quite so old Model Railways). I know I have it somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 BernardTPM, thanks for the suggestion. I wish I had of seen it earlier as I've been having a late night session and have already done the vents! I squeezed some thin plasticard between my pliers, so that the teath marks were left imprinted on the plasticard. I then cut it to the required sizes and stuck it onto the body. Although not perfect I was just about satisfied with the results because they were certainly better than the unforgiving methods I'd been previously contemplating - either scoring the vents directly onto the body (ouch!) or heating a small screwdriver and melting them in (ouch, again!) To be honest I didn't complety understand what you said, but nevertheless if I had of gone with your method I think the results would probably have been better. Going though my parts box I found some Bachmann Class 37 frost grills which were almost perfect in size for the radiator grill. I've also found some Class 37 buffers which I'm going to use and some Bachmann Deltic footsteps which are about the right size but will need the addition of an extra step. The only problem at the moment is that it's slighty wide. I'm not sure if it looks far too wide because still not having a roof makes it seem low and fat. Although measuring it up it is infact about 1mm too wide. I didn't account for the 0.75mm strips which I used on the bodysides, did i! By the time I realized it had all been glued together. If I had of noticed before I would have modified the chassis/floor.... Now, due to the quantity of glue I've gone and used, I think, the only way I could correct that would be by making three cuts leghthways to remove a central part of the chassis/floor and sticking a new floor, to the correct width, above the remains of the old one. But i don't really know. It seems allot of trouble for just 1mm. We'll see how I feal about it during the next few days.... Still, appart from that little error I'm pleased with how it's coming together. Here's tonight's photo. The frames have only been provisional attatched so I could see what it was begining to look like. I'll need to get some wheels first before I put the frams into their deffinitive position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 This thing is clearly the grandaddy of the Fell. ...Also, as this is only my second scratchbuild (and my first had a flat roof) could you kindly tell what the usual procedure for doing the roof would be?... Use a former and heat plasticard so that it drapes over it, then allow to cool. ...Any ideas on powering the loco? It is one I have shyed away from because I am not that good an engineer to design a drive system for it. For a near fit, the standard 08 shunter chassis would be my choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Regarding the radiator grille, these are made up of vertical elements. They used the same style of components in all their diesel units, varying in number and length according to the degree of cooling required. There's a very good close-up photo here http://www.flickr.com/photos/23689245@N08/3590064260/sizes/o/in/photostream/ Note how, apart from the middle, presumably home-made replacement, they have very obvious vertical elements to the fins. There are also numerous small details that were common across many builds, so it's worth doing an image search to get the flavour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Use a former and heat plasticard so that it drapes over it, then allow to cool. Can plasticard be put in the microwave? There are also numerous small details that were common across many builds, so it's worth doing an image search to get the flavour. Brilliant idea! Today's progress. Won't go into much detail because dinner time is approarching..... First of all I modified the floor/chassis, as described in the last post. I thought that as I'm only going to build this model once I may as well loose a bit of time on it and hopefully end up with a model that is more correct. The funny thing is I have a fleet of Heljan Class 47s and it doesn't botther me at all that they're too wide! Then I dashed out and got some wheels. These were duly fitted. I never realized what a pain it was to get the bearings all level. I must have lost a couple of hours just doing that! But, I say, what beauties these wheels are!! By that stage it was begining to vaguly look like a locomotive, so out came the camera as promised..... In this photo the rivets I added yesterday can also be seen. They're not very good. I'm hoping they'll look a bit better when painted, but if when I prime them there's no improvment I'll probably sand them flat and leave them off. This was when I was originally going to call it a day, but I kept on going for a while "just one more bit" I kept on saying to myself. Notice the second floor which I'd fixed in place above the original floor which I modified to make it more narrow. Not pretty, but it serves it's purpous. So we now have cabs on it. The front part is just provisionally fixed in place so I could test the curvature of the roof. I think the roof curvature looks more or less equal on both sides. The loco does seem to be leaning to the left, but I think this may just be because the camera could have been at a slight angle. Going for me dinner now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Cracking stuff, try getting some Archer rivets, you'll need to provide a gloss surface for them to float on to, but that should not present a problem at this stage. Totally recommend these rivets, used them on my DJH Brit, worked really well. http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2012 That roof has already caused me to loos a fair ammount of sleep. I was looking for a suitable sized cardboard tube and I was thinking of making a resin casting of it, but there must be more straight forward ways..... What if i were to build the general profile of the roof up using strips of plastic and then putting filler over it and smoothing it? Hi Vac Basher I use laminates of 40 thou plastic card. On the end view of the drawing I mark the centre line in 1mm spaces. I then draw horzontal lines on these markings. These lines give the width of each layer of plastic card. These are then cut out and cemented together, they look like a set of ornimental steps. Using a file I take off the corners and the roof starts to take shape. Filler is then applied and smoothed for the final shape. Laminates added to body Filed to shape Filler added Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Mike, very interesting those rivets are. Are they self adhisive? Wow Clive, quite a fleet you've got going there! Now that's what I was thinking of doing for the roof.... I'd tried the heated plasticard method as 34theletterbetweenB&D suggested, but I obviously didn't do it correctly. I put the plasticard in the microwave (when Mrs Vac Basher wasn't around ) and even after sevral minutes it wasn't getting soft, so I put it in a plate of water and microwaved that for a bit. The effects were not as expected, all i succeeded in doing was shrinking and warping the plasticard. Well, here are the photos of tonights progress.... Appologies again for the poor quality, I only realized once I'd downloaded them onto the computer. Seems like I must have had my camera on the wrong setting. Taking shape! I'm rather pleased with the buffers as they're actually sprung! That was a feature I unsuccesfully tried to add to the Minilok when I was building it. So I'm pleased that's worked out ok on this one Familiar face? A bit like in the previous foto from this perspective, this time it's leaning right, but as can be seen that's because the wheels aren't sitting on the rails properly. I was about to call it a night, when after a couple of shots of Jameson I found the courage to do something about those bodyside steps. I just drilled them out. Not perfect by any means, but ok I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Vac Basher I use laminates of 40 thou plastic card. On the end view of the drawing I mark the centre line in 1mm spaces. I then draw horzontal lines on these markings. These lines give the width of each layer of plastic card. These are then cut out and cemented together, they look like a set of ornimental steps. Using a file I take off the corners and the roof starts to take shape. Filler is then applied and smoothed for the final shape. Laminates added to body Filed to shape Filler added If you use alternate layers of black and white plasticard then you get clear contours when filing it round and you can make sure that your filing matches on both sides. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi No the rivets are held in a transfer film, so a quick soak in water, 30 seconds or so, then slide off the backing paper into position. If you've got an old bottle of Klear, then paint some on to the position of your required rivet detail. Wait 20 mins for it to dry and then on go the transfers. Wait for those to dry, 24hrs - that's what I leave mine - and then re-coat to protect them while the rest of the build goes on. Quick and very easy solution to an age old problem. The rivets come in different sizes and in different spacing. I'd suggest you bought the beginners pack as you get a good selection in size and spacing and plenty of them. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 You might be able to find a section of plastic coach roof to suit the basic profile, culled from an old r-t-r coach. You'd still need to profile the cab ends, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Looking forward to how you get on with the other end. That will be a bit more involved with the contours of the bonnet. The same idea as Clive suggests for the roof should work. I do find this whole project raher dangerous. I have always had a liking for odd locos and there is a copy of the drawing somewhere upstairs and probably enough wheels to suit. Keep up the good work. Re your comment on colour. Never given it a thought and just assumed that it was black. The "eyebrows" would seem to be a very light colour. White? Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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