The Furness Valley Railroad

[chaz]

I can't help with the questions, just want to say that this is a fabulous project that I'm enjoying reading about.

 

Thanks for the kind comment - I will continue reporting my progress.

[chaz]

Chaz - I know you've been tree-making recently - Have you seen my post at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116997-another-method-of-making-those-tall-pine-trees/&do=findComment&comment=2504768

 

No, but now I have the link I will check it out. Thanks for that.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Signals such as this

 

Ball signal.jpg

 

Also the switches would have indicators visible from the cab unlike points i the UK

 

SVMRC 2.jpg

 

(and they would not be going that fast anyway!)

 

Rgds Andrew

 

Thanks for the info' Andrew. I  will have indicators on switchstands, when I have switchstands!   That signal (the type that gave rise to the term "highball") is there, I guess, because of the flat crossing. I think otherwise signals would be rare on the narrow gauge.

 

I suspect that trains that are heading for the passing siding should stop to allow time for a crew member to climb down and set the switch. And, as you say, speeds will be low. Maybe after passing over reversed switches the conductor (?) would leave the caboose to reset the switch to the main?

 

Chaz

[AJon30]

Here's a simlar ball signal on the Sandy River Railrad in Maine.

 

 

If you are up for a challenge a 3way stub switch would look quite nice!

 

Rgds Andrew

[chaz]

Here's a simlar ball signal on the Sandy River Railrad in Maine.

 

Phillipsyard.jpg

 

If you are up for a challenge a 3way stub switch would look quite nice!

 

Rgds Andrew

 

I suspect that the photo' you have posted is an early one. It is fascinating, thanks for putting it up.

 

There is a good article on building a 3way stub switch in the 2013 On30 Annual and I am tempted to build one for the terminal station when I get that far. The switch-stand in the photo' looks a very interesting piece of kit - the one in the annual is a harp stand.

 

Of course a Tortoise is not much good for working a stub, unless I can find a way of getting it to stop accurately aligned in the centre position. I'm thinking of two solenoids that interact with the electrical switching to cause the stall motor to stall in the right place by positioning a vertically sliding stop against which the moving rail will touch. There will need to be two stops, one for each direction. Or is there an easier way? Maybe a motor drive worked from a cheap DCC decoder and aligned by eye?

 

Chaz

Edited November 20, 2016 by chaz

[mudmagnet]

Following progress with interest Chaz! Looking great so far.

[Donw]

Chaz I think it would be a Brakeman aligning the switches under the control of the conductor unless on the narrow gauge the conductor had to do both roles. On the standard gauge there would usually be two brakemen of a freight.

 

Don

[chaz]

Chaz I think it would be a Brakeman aligning the switches under the control of the conductor unless on the narrow gauge the conductor had to do both roles. On the standard gauge there would usually be two brakemen of a freight.

 

Don

 

Although we can't model a brakeman walking to the switchstand etc we could bring trains to a stand before setting the road and again after clearing the station limits if necessary so that the turnouts can be reset to the main. Or would they rely on the crew of the next train to set their own route?

[Donw]

Although we can't model a brakeman walking to the switchstand etc we could bring trains to a stand before setting the road and again after clearing the station limits if necessary so that the turnouts can be reset to the main. Or would they rely on the crew of the next train to set their own route?

 

I have a feeling they would re-align to the main. Probably the train would pass slowly over the exit turnout as the last vehicle cleared the turnout the brakeman would re-align to the main (assuming the train had been in the loop) and the run and hop onto the caboose the conductor would then signal to the driver that all was clear so he could accelerate away.

Don

[chaz]

I have a feeling they would re-align to the main. Probably the train would pass slowly over the exit turnout as the last vehicle cleared the turnout the brakeman would re-align to the main (assuming the train had been in the loop) and the run and hop onto the caboose the conductor would then signal to the driver that all was clear so he could accelerate away.

Don

 

That certainly sounds credible. It would be nice to have such working methods confirmed by someone "in the know".

 

The American narrow gauge certainly had a lot of practices that seem strange to me. For instance I believe that water tanks would often be sited at a station so that they could be used by traffic in either direction - so a train might stop for the loco to take on water before it drew up into the station area.

 

However the FVRR rule book will feature the now infamous Rule One - so subsequent rules can be written (and rewritten) to suit myself.

 

Chaz

[Donw]

That certainly sounds credible. It would be nice to have such working methods confirmed by someone "in the know".

 

The American narrow gauge certainly had a lot of practices that seem strange to me. For instance I believe that water tanks would often be sited at a station so that they could be used by traffic in either direction - so a train might stop for the loco to take on water before it drew up into the station area.

 

However the FVRR rule book will feature the now infamous Rule One - so subsequent rules can be written (and rewritten) to suit myself.

 

Chaz

 

I used to have the Model RailRoader at one time ( a three year sub at a discount when the pound was high compared to the dollar not like today) that featured quite a lot of articles on operation. My favorite is the double sawby two freights longer than the passing loop having to cross at the station. Now that will be an operating challenge to test any visitor who thinks they know it all. Another is doubling or tripling a hill where the load is too heavy for the loco. These sort of things make sense in remote areas and involve a lot of work for the crew setting out flags and detonators to protect parts of the train. Very necessary on lines controlled by Timetable and Train Order rather than absolute block working. 

Don

[chaz]

In an earlier post I commented on the random nature ot the Fast Tracks turnout ties and how these might be too obvious when repeated over and over...

 

 

...having laid these four turnouts I don't think the effect is too bad, in fact looking at the formation the repeat is hardly noticeable - you have to look for it quite hard. I'm confident that once the ballast, dirt, weeds etc are added their will be no problem (but I still don't like the two very narrow ties, or is it a split tie?). What is more obvious are gaps where ties look missing because of joins - a few balsa ties slid into position will close the gaps.

 

Chaz

Edited November 25, 2016 by chaz

[chaz]

....My favorite is the double sawby two freights longer than the passing loop having to cross at the station.....

 

Don

 

Intriguing!   I am tempted to sit down with paper and pencil and work out how this is done. In fact I doubt that it will ever be necessary on the FVRR as I discovered yesterday that the passing siding is long enough for a loco + seven cars + caboose. Of course I could run a couple of longer freights as a puzzle... (but only after I have figured out how its done).

 

Chaz

Edited November 26, 2016 by chaz

[chaz]

WOOPS!

 

 

Oh dear, I am a clot. That white wire, which is the dropper to the crossing, should be soldered in the next gap along to the right so that it can feed both the nose of the crossing and the wing rails. This means that that bit of the closure rails to the left of the insulating gap is dead - which rather defeats the live frog arrangement. A discrete wire joining two ties solves the problem and will later be hidden in ballast or weeds. I discovered this the other day when running a meter over the rail tops. Luckily only two turnouts need the extra connection. But I won't be making that mistake again.

 

I could correct the problem by lifting the turnouts BUT that is a real pain involving quite a lot of work - easier to sneak in an extra link.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

"....My favorite is the double sawby two freights longer than the passing loop having to cross at the station...."

 

Got it!

 

(I am going to use the US term "siding" for the UK "loop")

 

The two freights are too long for the passing siding - lets call them red and blue. The red train is going east, the blue one west.

 

The blue train is divided leaving some cars behind on the east side. The blue loco pulls some cars into the siding.

 

The red train passes the blue on the main and stops well clear of the siding turnout on the east side with the uncoupled tail of blue cars blocking its path.

 

The  blue loco uses the passing siding to run round the cars and propels them up the line to the west leaving them well clear of the siding.

 

Leaving the cars on the line to the west the blue loco returns to the passing siding and stops.

 

The red train reverses back along the main and stops on the west side. It has the front section of the blue train behind it.

 

The blue loco reverses back from the siding and retrieves the section of the train left on the east side - it pulls these onto the siding.

 

The red train now has a clear run on the main and can proceed eastward.

 

The blue loco now propels the rear section of its train back to the east side, uncouples, retrieves the cars sitting on the west side, uses the siding to run round them, reunites the two sections and proceeds.

 

If the trains are too long to do the job in one cycle the principle is extended, with the red train shuttling back and forth while the blue loco takes a section at a time, runs round it and propels it on, the red train just has to get out of the way so that the blue loco can pass its train on a chunk at a time. It would take a while!

 

I think its even possible with a single ended spur rather than a full loop, but the red train has to move the cars off the blue loco and push them west itself.

 

Chaz

Edited November 26, 2016 by chaz

[Donw]

That will do it Chaz, there are a number of variations. It is a lot of shuffling about but out west on lines where there may only be one train each way daily it makes sense. Splitting the trains would need extra engines and crew. 

 

The first time I operated at an exhibition was on a friends layout at the Watershed in Bristol. After being shown the ropes the other two dais ok on your own while we take a look round sure I said. As the left I discovered they had put a freight together in the fiddle yard to big for the terminus loop then went out front to see how I coped. Fortunately I did not panic and worked it out without any manual intervention.

 

Don

[chaz]

... ....I discovered they had put a freight together in the fiddle yard to big for the terminus loop then went out front to see how I coped. Fortunately I did not panic and worked it out without any manual intervention....

 

 

Something similar happened on Dock Green at the last show when one of my operators (no names, no packdrill) misread one of the sequence cards and put two lots of four wagons on the transfer siding locking everything up solid. It took some time to shunt it back to something approaching correct. As long as you don't panic it's always possible to shunt your way out of chaos.

 

Keep calm and carry on shunting?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

The track gang were in action this afternoon...

 

 

...laying the rails for the team track.

 

 

I laid it using some code 70 rail I was given. In the picture below the team track is in the foreground with the main line, laid in code 83 behind it. Does the difference show up in this picture?

 

 

I ended the team track with a tie bumper (car stop). Some sort of bumper would be essential here - as any over-running car might well hit the end of the depot building.

 

 

Just try to imagine the end of the spur buried in the dirt and weeds.

 

A hint of operating fun to come...

 

 

#7 has just spotted a couple of boxcars on the team track and is now pulling away with the rest of the way freight.

 

Chaz

Edited November 28, 2016 by chaz

[Donw]

The difference is subtle but visible as it should be.

 

Coming on nicely.

 

Don

[chaz]

You will note that I abandoned the idea of thinner ties on top of packing in favour of just getting on with it. The ends of the ties, especially on the sidings and spurs, can be left showing almost their full depth (a look I have seen in lots of pictures of US NG track). However I need to come up with materials for ballast and ground cover between the tracks which look convincing. I am wondering whether silver sand will give me a suitable look? Anybody tried this or can suggest alternatives.....?

 

Chaz

Edited November 29, 2016 by chaz

[2ManySpams]

I used coloured silver sand as ash ballast on New Haden Colliery. Looked good on a 4mm layout IMO.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/NHC.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjni-jKy87QAhVbFMAKHUIeCggQFggLMAA&sig2=0F15ezYcpSKP6pTQ1ZdkwQ&usg=AFQjCNESKaQG7-5MeRiygfVV0WWL--PEPw

[Jeff Smith]

Chaz,

 

I use Woodland Scenics pretty well exclusively. Medium for the ballast and fine for road surfaces. For track ballasting I use the tried and tested dry application with diluted PVA dropper. For other surfaces I spread neat PVA, sprinkle on, press down and add the dropper as necessary with thicker piles etc. I also add the flocking on top of wet surfaces.

 

I found a real bonus of having a road crossing as it makes a perfect re-railer. Especially useful for all the 0n30 bogie stock......might be worth adding if you haven't already got one in mind!

[chaz]

I used coloured silver sand as ash ballast on New Haden Colliery. Looked good on a 4mm layout IMO.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/NHC.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjni-jKy87QAhVbFMAKHUIeCggQFggLMAA&sig2=0F15ezYcpSKP6pTQ1ZdkwQ&usg=AFQjCNESKaQG7-5MeRiygfVV0WWL--PEPw

 

I followed your link and was very impressed with the look of your colliery areas - most convincing. How did you colour the sand - did you apply the sand and paint it later?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Chaz,

 

I use Woodland Scenics pretty well exclusively. Medium for the ballast and fine for road surfaces. For track ballasting I use the tried and tested dry application with diluted PVA dropper. For other surfaces I spread neat PVA, sprinkle on, press down and add the dropper as necessary with thicker piles etc. I also add the flocking on top of wet surfaces.

 

I found a real bonus of having a road crossing as it makes a perfect re-railer. Especially useful for all the 0n30 bogie stock......might be worth adding if you haven't already got one in mind!

 

Thanks for those ideas Jeff. Do you have any photos of the results that you could post here? Or a link to where I can view some?

 

There will be a grade crossing somewhere in the station area to give road access to a building or two and I will probably also include a dirt road crossing the line beyond the station area - I will probably hide the road's exit behind trees as I did the river.

 

Chaz

Edited November 29, 2016 by chaz

[Jeff Smith]

Chaz - see the Leesburg link below