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Ever been to the British museum, Walked the Smithsonian museums dotting the mall in Washington, HK History museum... they are full of kids and tourists eager to learn history. Kids learn far more in museums than adults do, if presented correctly. Kids and tourists want to be influenced, that's why they visit, curiosity, learn something different. As for food in a museum... because when people leave.. they tend to not come back after lunch. No kids, no future... then no need for a museum... how many adults "discovered railway enthusiasm" in their 40's... not many.. they discovered it as a kid, grew up with it, then maybe after a period "rediscovered it" it in later life.

I've never been to the National Gallery, I've limited interest in art, my perception is that it's wall to wall paintings.. probably stale stuffy boring full of Lovejoy cast types hence I don't go..Skin deep.. maybe, but the same principle applies to people's interest in trains... I'm sure it's different than that, I don't know, my interests lie elsewhere, hence why breaking a stereo type is crucial, and railway enthusiasts really were the ultimate stereotypes in the 1980's, and the hobby has done massively well to break it, to the point of social acceptability today... creating world class museums, chocolate box railways that translate railways into entertainment was the key to it. If the NRM was based In Southall shed, as it looks today, you can guarantee no one would ever go.. despite being in the edge of london.. image is important, facilities comes next, then the entertainment...Didcot learned it too, it's much more than a shed full of locos.

He might be right. Indeed there maybe too many steam locomotives in the UK for the industry to support in the future.A Railway museum exists to interpret railways to ALL of us. The NRM has evolved from York shed into a museum, because the demographic visiting the museum has changed. It's no longer full of 16-30 year old males "copping" numbers. Today it's families, kids that only can name 4 or 5 engines at most, (+ Thomas & co), every engine after that is just another engine. None of those families appreciate why they existed or why their world is what it is today. Railways of the 1960's is a lost world. Ask a kid to name a V2, or why it exists is too far out there to be understood, do fish even go by rail any more ? - I dunno I've been an enthusiast for decades. Newspapers, TPO, Parcels, MGR, Speedlink, Redstar even the guards compartment exist only in our memories, preserved railways and model layouts.. it's a lost world, having rows and rows of locos does nothing to explain that. A few years back on safari, the gamekeeper asked if anyone could name types of Antelope in South Africa.., queue me to an astonished crowd as I rattled off all my B1's., teenagers can't do that, I doubt even many 40 somethings can either.. the fact that Everything, Fish, meat, tomatoes, beer, milk, whisky all went by rail tooo... all That world too is gone. Is the museum being Disneyfied, is the concentration of our hardrailways being diluted... maybe... but if that's what it takes to get footfall through the door, then needs be, as the alternative... looks like the Warsaw Railway museum, few visitors, a bit shabby, rundown, outdoor, no facilities and I doubt visitors could even care less what they used to do, it's just a line of rotting wrecks that unlike much of the other 200 locos rusting in the country, these occasionally gets to share a can of lime green paint every decade. German forums are full of frustration that the only surviving streamlined 03 is in Warsaw.. unloved and unable to do anything about it. If people leave the museum thinking Green Arrow is the fish train engine, 2500 is a commuter engine and that massive Chinese engine was actually built in the U.K. And exported to the other side of the world, unlike today where everything seems to come the other way., then education has worked, and maybe a full belly instead of a cucumber sandwich too. I've been to some world class railway museums, they aren't all ex-loco sheds with rows of locos, the NRM is excellant and priveliged to have more than it needs, but the interpretation needs to be one that is only deep enough for an untrained, less enthusiastic audience, over do it.. they'll become bored and leave. Sometimes less is more.

That's understandable, after all the real City of Manchester was spelt wrong, It's name is supposed to be "City of Munchessterrr"

Just a note, the s160 doesn't have the shaft drive, the loco wheels are free wheeling. (It's powered by the same successful design going back to the 1970's).Here is the s160, and a BR 35 with the shaft for comparison. The rh109 made prior (2013) to the s160 also doesn't have it, but the BR 01.5 does, (2010?) so it would seem they stopped new tooled models with a shaft a few years back.

Edit.. I'm going mad.

Did 47/7s work with 4TCs ? I haven't seen 47701 in revised NSE done before since the days of Lima, is this a new ltd edition ?

Their Facebook page also has a possible teaser video too, 47701 in revised NSE was running round their layout, as far I see no one since Lima has done this one ? https://youtu.be/FefGt8Of5Ho

The red blob is actually legit on the MSC one, it's the yellow lining which isn't.

"Heavily expensive" is one word too many these days. A lot of European models are the same or cheaper than their U.K. Counterparts, especially older toolings. The secret to traction tyres, is that alone isn't the solution, Those European tender Drive locos come with a massive chunky weight on top of the tyres, and pickups on as many wheels as possible,with a degree of weight above the locos wheels too. Finally a very tight set of small gears to give traction to those wheels. The reason it failed here in the UK, setting back tender drive benefits back a generation, was the use of two very large gears, instead of 4 or 6 smaller ones on that ring field motor, not giving those gears a box to stop the lateral motions, and the lack of a forementioned weight... that and the lack of loco weight and sloppy connections /minimal pickups between loco and tender. If you look at some of the recent diesels (Dapols Western is an excellant example, but going further back so was Lima's class 20 in its day) of what difference this makes.. but the J94/14xx don't benefit as they haven't the weight, even if it has the gearing... but the Peckett.. oh my it packs a punch. Admittedly I was one of that jaded generation, but seeing how prop shafts have given traction to the drivers on the loco I'm becoming a convert, though tender drive has its limits too, I've seen some interesting derailments, but they are generally fewer and farther between than my OO counterparts on the same track.

I was quaffing the quails whilst drinking Lanson observing the riff raff through one way glass, and having microscopic views of USA tanks myself on the Bachmann stand last year, the riff raff were outside looking in... poor them.I do hope this year they upgrade those sofas to three cushions this year, the Victoria sponge was fantastic, just needs a drop more framboise, one needs this to clear the palette when observing the SECR Birdcages. :-) After leaving the Bachmann stately reserve however I changed into my smelly beer tshirt, added a false moustache and grabbed my rucksack to blend into the herd once more.

There is irony in that :-) The k1 is £79 at Rails, or with 3 wagons it's £168..

Hmm, I wonder if the packs will be split with locos sold separately ?

No ones commented on the massive price drop for a 14xx... £70 rrp 6 years ago (R3027) to £45 now in 2018's Railroad range ? Following the laws of inflation (R3022 Terrier also of 2011 range, was £61 rrp, compares to today's Terrier with an rrp of £84.99 today), following the same price ratio, (+40%) this one over the last 6 years should be £98rrp by now. This 14xx has beaten inflation, and then some... remarkable.. maybe the toolings been fully depreciated / achieved ROI returns and it's now just a commodity loco, price reflecting just its assembly costs + margin ? Who knows ? -it's certainly a bargain £35 at rails, I'm tempted just to put a new chassis under my old knackered airfix style chassis ones.

Whilst it's a waste of a good condition machine, and there are others being overhauled in much worse condition with more missing pieces to re-manufacturer, this isn't the only one of its type, and so people may enjoy the possibility of riding several others like it elsewhere. This engine is neither glamorous, nor unique, so it's low down most people's lists. Indeed there is at least one at risk of being scrapped and another 2-3 of the 28xx/2884 class that look to have little to no chance either, at this stage they already are getting on 50 years slowly rusting outside by this point, another 20 years isn't going to help those ones...a sign the care is selective, and Darwininan theory applies to locomotives too.

My layout is based in realtime, today.... that desiro is in Waterloo plat 3, hence no track. :-)

It may be the need to reach a critical mass, as far as variety goes.In the past we'd have tons of locos, more locos than coaches on our layouts, and of course those coaches can be used with near any loco. But an EMU is a lonely bird, unless it's surrounded by the variety of other lonely birds until it becomes a flock... 1 LM Desiro does not a 2014-17 era layout make,join it with a Pendolino, a bit of freight and the ball starts moving, but there's a bit of a ways to go yet... 35 years since introduction and there still isn't any decent class 142, sprinters aren't overly available, and other modern DMUs/ EMUs are quite far between..21st century is a bit slow to adopt in modelling terms. I think Hornby (and Oxford ?) are better placed to serve this market, they are still able to produce a coach for under £40 and a diesel at under £100, super detail maybe restricted, but if it means 4 cars is possible for under £200 then it's worth exploring, close coupling, through wiring, Wire handrails, LED lights can all come in an upgraded version for the next generation, kiss applies (keep it simple and stupid).

Given there's over 400 of them, in a dozen liveries, stretching a large part of the country, they can't be far off. I wouldn't mind a Gautrain version though if they tooled that cab front, I travelled on it often enough.

I've read on a German forum that soaking the mazak in vinegar can slow (not stop) the effects of rot. Don't know if this is true, maybe someone more qualified can comment, before all our layouts smell of fish and chips, and Sarsons declares a shortage.

250 isn't a lot given how many people trundle through Warley. Additionally, having the prototype infront of the model always helps. At this price I suspect they will be gone by Saturday evening, It might be as many as 50 gone before the doors open. Still if it distracts the herd from the Bachmann stand, then it helps.

I don't have OHLE either, but that's ok, as my shiny new blue desiro doesn't have a pantograph. :-) P.s. As no one else has, I'll say kudos and thanks to Mr Lovett for such a detailed response, sent on a weekend.

Does this DMU qualify for this thread :-) ?I wouldn't give a 141 to my enemy, but it appears we gave a few..

Hornby R3027 looks like the last release, with an RRP of £70.49, that was about 6 years ago, so whatever way you look ok at it, this is a very good price, ebay prices second hand 14xx in this range.

Not all quick wins are good wins.I have a similar situation in my own industry, I have a product end of life, the upgrade is to another product that is publicly announced is scheduled to be replaced... naturally my customers are waiting for the new one rather than upgrading twice. (Though I admit my management would prefer they did, realistically it makes sensie to wait). I don't see this any different here, why buy an old 158, when a new one is coming, might as well wait for the new one. Similarly if they make the new livery on the old tooling, all it does is risk alienating customers who unknowingly buy the old one and risk dampening demand for the new one from those that willingly do buy it and didnt want to upgrade again too soon. I sense frustration at waiting the 158, to limit that frustration I reccomend looking at the new Desiro, or ebay for an existing 158, or if the wallet is itching, there's a new 156 quite close, It's not as if the 158 is the only Product coming to the market.