KR Models

8 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Yes, I’d be curious to know which of the two samples was chosen i.e. the one with rod drive or the one with internal gearing to all driving wheels.

 

I note the Royal Train headcode. Will there be closed discs in the accessory pack and will they be easy to fix in place?

 

I must say the running and decorated sample looks and sounds impressive.

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Has it got round head buffers or is that the way they look because of the video?

They're oval buffers

9 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Excellent to see the painted sample. Looks and sounds great, pleased I upgraded to a sound model now. 

 

Couple of points I have. 

- Do the coupling rods use crankpin nuts or press fit pins? Don't think this has ever been mentioned previously.

- Assume if a DCC sound model we're to be swapped to DC that a standard 21 pin blanking plug can be used?

- Finally, may I ask what gearbox was that model running with? Either way it seems to run smoothly with no sign of the rods fighting the wheels. 

 

Cheers 

Nuts

Yes

We're still testing.

Howdy all, Michael here!

We have finally received our production sample and you can view it here: 

Id like to take a minute to explain a bit of what is going on with the painted production sample, as i'm sure you can notice just a couple of things wrong. Rather than leave you in the dark and try to sweep it under the rug, I wanted to address some of the understandable concerns with the model.

First and most notably, the colour. 
Yes, the paint should be glossy and on our sample, it isn't. Due to translation errors, this was an error on our factories part, but is easily fixable and the model you receive will be glossy. On that note, we are very happy with the colour we have chosen, and in my honest opinion has come out very well on the model.

Secondly, damage to the model.

Unfortunately, the model we have used for testing and photography arrived to us damaged. Neither me nor my father were happy to receive the model in this state, but due to customs manhandling and poor care for the model in transit, a couple of features on the model are damaged. We can assure you that when you receive your model, it will not arrive damaged. We aren't using a second rate courier to handle your packages, or having some underpaid delivery man throw it around for a bit of fun. 

We did what we could to repair the model so that it would appear as it should in the video we have taken.

I hope you all understand that we don't want to disappoint or lie to any of you, and we don't want to deliver you a half-assed broken product. We are doing everything we can to ensure that you receive the best quality model that we can deliver.

If any of you have any questions regarding the production sample, I would be happy to answer them here or via email at research@krmodels.co.uk.

15 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

I expressed interest in a second run of the OO gauge version as I thought the N gauge one wasn't going ahead. Glad to see it is now back. I tried expressing my interest in an N gauge one but I am unable to do so. Can @KR Models please help? I'd like to convert my EOI for a OO gauge one to an N gauge one.

Send me an email at research@krmodels.co.uk and i'll see what I can do for you.

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

That would be the cost of shipping......

Cost of shipping isnt a mystery, nor has it ever been.

UK delivery is £4.50, Europe outside of UK is £19, and rest of the world is £23.

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Any news on delivery timescale?

Due to the current climate, delays were inevitable, but we are on track for late July/early August.

8 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

KR stated production won't start until it has.

And nor will it. We want it done right, not done quick. If it takes us more time to get the last details ironed out, then so be it.

That being said, this is the last of the list to finish. Once finalised, production starts.

Quick update for you guys: Updated screenshots!

3 hours ago, Retro_man said:

 

The picture is shown reversed - look at the numbers!

54 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

How so ? I never stated it had identical sides..... If you had researched better and taken notice I pointed out " The single rods weren't accurate for the later body" 

Which is why we are including the rod separate on both the early BR Black livery AND the Brunswick Green livery. If people want the 4-8-4 config in either livery, it is entirely their prerogative. 

We were asked to look into it, and as it turns out we can absolutely do it. If you don't want to use the connecting rod, then don't. Its not gonna cost you any extra for the rod.

7 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Are you absolutely sure the picture you have posted is taken at the same time and from the other side as the one I posted ?  There are quite a few differences between the 2 apart from the grills on the nose side.

 

But like others you have completely missed the point I was making. That was to use a single connecting rod from it's early days rendered the model too innacurate for many if you were choosing to model it with seperate rods and from a later time period. 

Might I suggest that you do MORE research.  As we HAVE stated before, we are supplying the additional connection rod as an accessory, and the photos supplied is of the other side.  The loco does NOT have matching sides.  Therefore making your argument/criticism null and void.  Also, as stated before these CAD drawings are NOT the final renderings.

Some customers wanted the 4-8-4 wheel configuration as well as the 4-4-4-4 version.  But seeing as you don't want one why do you care?

11 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Perhaps you need to talk to Mike Edge KR Models. He waited many years tp gather enough information to get the Fell kit as correct as possible. Read his recent post on here.

 

The CAD drawing is missing roof detail for the photo you show in your latest post. Unfortunately the Fell managed to amass a fair few body modifications over its life.  Trying to produce one body means you almost have to say which month and year it represents.

Baz

As stated in my previous post, these are still preliminary drawings. Nothing is set in stone, things are still yet to be added (like the handrails above the nose), and things are still subject to change.

But yes, you are correct, there isnt going to be a scenario that we can cover all the different changes that the Fell went through. This is why we are giving the option of the coupling rod, so that if people want the 4-8-4 version over the 4-4-4-4 version, they can have it. 

On 11/04/2020 at 11:33, chris p bacon said:

 

Really .. So the bloomin great big grills on the side of the nose isn't noticable.

 

 

https://zenfolio.page.link/9eFTw

 

Just to dispute this, you are only posting one side of the locomotive. The Fell being notorious for its hideously ugly design was also not symmetrical in any way. It doesnt matter which way you split it, it doesn't perfectly match the opposite side. 

To find that picture, you MUST have found a picture with the other 2 grills on the opposite side and then proceeded to deliberately ignore them.

Here is the picture of the other side you have neglected to show:

As stated in the email, these are still preliminary designs, not confirmed and set in stone. We have done our research.

As we have shown with the Flask Wagon, if the project does not go ahead, the money that you have put forward will be refunded to you.

So far, we are still receiving steady orders and we are fully aware a lot of people are struggling in the current climate, but we aren't as far off our target mark as people think. Once we hit our target mark, we give our factory the go ahead. 

2 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

The way I read it from the email I have just received is the number of people signed up for updates via email is over the amount needed to make the project viable but as yet not enough people physically putting money down to say they'll definitely have one. 

Stated here from Pre Grouping Fan is what is happening. A lot of expressions, but not enough orders. Once we have hit our target mark of units ordered, we give our factory the green light to start the tooling.

The colours were directly taken from an original photo taken as it rolled out of the foundry.  It's not commercially available.  Most of the material has been colourized, which gives a distorted colour scheme.  

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

That's not really called for - I have only tried to help an initiative of which I have no need to take advantage.

 

I took a great deal of care and enjoyment in researching GT3 for my model, and I am more than willing to share that information.

 

My initial skepticism was purely due to the then-recent DJM debacle, and the rather vague information that you put out at the inception of your project.

 

John Isherwood.

 

PS. Both colours appear a tad dark to me - but I am putting that down to my screen; the actual colours used on GT3 appeared differently according to lighting.

Yeah, my father meant his comment entirely in jest, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack at all. I sincerely hope you didn't take it as such, and if you have we apologise. - Michael

1 minute ago, truffy said:

Latest update from KRM shows the chosen colours. The brown looks fine to me, but the green seems a little 'blue', in comparison to the sample suggested by John. Perhaps it's just my eyes/monitor.

 

I'm not giving Mr Isherwood any credit for any proposed suggestions   We'll never hear the last of it lol

Quick update for everyone!

We have decided on the colours we are using for the GT3, we are happy with the decision we have made, and we should have pictures to share with you soon.

We are also hosting a live Q&A on our Facebook page as well, so if you have anything you want answering, find out more on there.

Its going to be on Tuesday at 7PM GMT. Both me and my father will be on there, so feel free to ask us anything. 

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

yikes...

its a 1962 Locomotive GT3 your making, not a 1987 Ford Escort GT3.

 

thats Quality in motion, not a chavmobile... though arguably both, with an psuedo airline engine inside would take off like a scolded cat.

What about shiny and chrome? Surely that must have some interest haha

13 hours ago, D9001 said:

for me provided its not miles off I will be happy with it, I’m sure. 

We were considering neon pink at one point, but we both agreed that maybe that's just a little too far off.

Big thank you for all the help we have received on this thread, it is greatly appreciated and has absolutely helped in figuring out the correct colour for the GT3. 

We should have a definitive answer for the colour very soon with photos to follow.

14 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Which brown?

 

Sampling the photos of the large scale model, the brown of the loco in front of the cab window is RGB 105 48 37;

 

 

but the cab side in the tender photo is RGB 179 93 60.

 

 

Let's face it - the colour of GT3 has been debated since the time that it first rolled out of the paint shed. Unless you can find a paint spec. you'll have to choose a colour and be prepared for 90% of commentators to tell you that you got it wrong.

 

All I can say is that, independently, another modeller and I came to pretty much the same conclusions and, with the exception of the lightness of the green, so did the builders of the large scale model.

 

Perhaps you need to do a straw pole on the colours that I have suggested, and those of the models that I and Tim C. have produced?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

As gary_Iner pointed out, it is a minefield that we are trying to navigate with great difficulty. We aren't going to please everyone with the colour we choose, all we can do is try to make an informed and calculated decision regarding the colour and hope people don't blast us too harshly. 

Trust us when we say we are doing the best we can with our circumstances. This isnt easy as i'm sure you can understand.

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

There is generally an expectation (unless specified otherwise at original announcement - aka "weathered finishes") that the models we buy are shipped with a factory finished the represents the model as being fresh out of the paint shop.

 

Thus at least some, if not most, of your customers will be expecting that.

The actual appearance of the GT3 model wont have weathered paint. 

My post was merely to point out that all of the source material we have are all weathered photos, not the actual locomotive itself, and so trying to gauge the actual colour of the loco is difficult due to that.

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

I mixed my own from Humbrol colours but, to my eyes, RAL 040 30 40 doesn't look far off.

 

 

You could also ask the builders of this what they used.

 

 

 

I think that the green used here is a tad light - I'd go for RAL 6035.

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

This is very helpful, and i'm assuming from the photos you have used that this is Tim Coles GT3. 

Admittedly, that is a very good start, but personally I feel that the brown on there is a little too bright, a bit too chocolatey. (But that's just my personal opinion)

27 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

At least they're asking!

This is important to us, because we aren't the ones buying the model. You are. We want to know your thoughts and feelings as this project progresses, which is why I've been so open to suggestions throughout the project.

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Hattons get the size of the letters EWS wrong on one class 66 livery and all hell broke loose, you're asking a forum if using a washed out picture is acceptable as the basis for getting the colour right on a premium model.

And this is the biggest problem we face. We cant find much more source material that isnt very old or has faded colours, and even restored photographs might not have the right colour, so inevitably there's going to be some backlash or some outrage over this. We want it to be as accurate as possible, but its difficult to ascertain that.

The detail on models is everything, no matter how large or small the detail might be, and we pride ourselves on working had to bring a quality product that we can all be proud of.

Michael here, something to bring up to you lovely folks.

All of the images and material we have that contain that the GT3 all have their colours washed and its hard to pull the precise exact colour from them.

The question I want to pitch is (before we set anything in stone) if we use those as accurate source material, would this be acceptable?

44 minutes ago, branchie said:

I'm interested but not willing to fill out an EOI form yet

The EOI shows that interest, we aren't asking for any monetary commitment right now. We just want to see who will buy if we make it.

6 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I'l try to explain using made up numbers to illustrate a point.

 

Breakeven point to make the wagon viable is (say) 1,000 models sold.

 

800 customers express their interest.

 

Unknown to  KR Models, 200 of these customers want 2 wagons and a further 100 customers want 3 wagons. Total number of wagons 1,200 well above the break even point, but remember KR Models dont know this as they are only counting customers.

 

KR Models make a decision not to proceed as they did not get the 'necessary' 1,000 expressions of interest.

 

Result; Model not made, 800 disappointed people;  profit from a run of 1,200 wagons missed.

 

 

Keith, you have explained the reasoning behind your expression of interest format but I urge you to instead reconsider the format.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me explain how we are going with the same numbers.

If 800 customers express interest, to us that looks like we are going to be making roughly 1200 models, give or take a few. 

We know most people will want to order 2, 3 or even 4 models from us. And we have accounted for that. 

We have also factored in the 20%ish of people that will remove their expression, or not place an order despite signing up for the expression. 

If we can hit our target figure of customers, factoring in the above, then the model will be made. If we deem it a risk worth taking, then why shouldn't we.

2 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

As long as you are taking into consideration the discrepancy in the numbers that is fine, albeit I think a bit different than how other crowd funders have done their expressions of interest.

 

The concern of those who have posted is the (from the customer point of view) is that you treat each expression of interest as only 1 model sold.  That may be a fair assumption when dealing with a unique loco like the GT3 or Fell, but isn't necessarily true for something like a goods wagon.

We don't. We see each expression as one customer, not one model that they want to order. It is simply to see how much interest is there and if we do want to continue, how viable would it be.

It isnt meant to be a 1:1 concrete idea of how many models we are going to sell.