MidlandRed

Great info, @The Stationmaster - I guess all if this stock was officially Landore’s but suspect it got around at both ends of the line (the DMUs ran to Shrewsbury I think) - there’s always rule 1, and like the Scottish class 24s which had pairs of car headlights fitted, make for an interesting variation - and there is always Rule 1 😀

The 116 thread fills in lots of gaps, especially in their early life and during cascades to other areas - great job @chrisf And this photo graphically shows the potential problems of colour stock - the 116 is in unlined green (not blue) - which confused some posters in the 116 thread at the time - and just look at that orangey red on the bottom half of that BR road vehicle!!

I agree - or even Dapol - driving carriages are not too far removed from the class 122. I would love a couple of 116s, which were ubiquitous based at Tyseley, on ex GW lines and beyond in the West Midlands, Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Shropshire (Salop 😉) from 1957 till withdrawal - I’d be happy with early unlined green, later linedgreen, early blue (syp, white cab top, red buffer beams) and blue fye (my poor credit cards would take a bashing if any manufacturers did tge 116 pre about 1970….)!! Some of the Valleys units came to the West Midlands - as well as going to Bristol, the West Country, Finsbury Park, the north east and Scotland - must be some of the most widely travelled class!!

Or a TMD where they might test the lighting?

Or maybe a 119 or (dare I mention…. 116)!!

Yes that’s the one - I seem to remember some D688x locos having these - could this be an extra item in the detail pack for the forthcoming (we very much hope…..) WR versions in green and pre-TOPS blue? With a plug in and blanking plate for the electrical connector 🥴 perhaps too much of a flight of fancy haha!! NB similar car headlights were carried by the Central Wales class 120 units mounted centrally (or thereabouts) in between the windscreens (along with the centre car not being there - not sure if they were removed from the units allocated or whether they got the handful of two cars as delivered).

This is extremely impressive but………I hope you’re including WR Central Wales line centre headcode as built versions with headlights a la 60s/70s 🥰 @The Stationmaster will know the exact version 😉

Looking at the posted pictures of the model, and particularly the bottom one, the slope of the boiler towards the smoke box and the increasing height of the top of the firebox from cab to the front (altogether a pair of odd prototype shapes) looks particularly accurate when compared with the prototype photos above - it’s when viewed as a model from what would be a drone from height of a prototype that the combination of shapes looks slightly more odd - maybe because we rarely see the prototype from such an elevation and angle that is normal with a model!! The relative heights of the chimney etc look to match those in the drawing posted by @Miss Prism If I was in the market for a Manor I’d most definitely be buying one of these - as others have said, it definitely looks like a Manor and there’s definitely something to be said for jam today etc etc!! Id probably order an Accurascale one as well though - well possibly………..

Around half way through this thread (of 18 pages in one month), I’m pretty sure someone posted an email received from Hornby apologising profusely for the matter and stating that a new system had been put in place to avoid having to cut dealer pre-ordered allocations in future. Surely we should wait to see how that pans out before trying to pre-guess and reinvent wheels? As someone has just stated, they have re-pre-ordered with Hornby direct (I did that in the first place owing to previous experience - and the experience of missing out on certain models from other manufacturers, which I still haven’t been able to backfill, owing to dealer issues in the first place). Someone has also just posted that their model purchases are discretionary, and they would not be ordering direct from the manufacturer as they want to support dealers. I suppose it depends how much you want the model - or whether your primary aim is to support local dealers. I think local dealers are an essential part of the hobby and to be supported but I do wonder at people ‘boycotting’ manufacturer direct purchases, in the case of Hornby, in response to this matter - I’m sure people (though not all) direct order from newer firms like Accurascale and Rapido. I’m afraid that direct sales are part of the whole of retail these days, like it or not. I recently wanted a pair of trainers of a particular spec - whilst I could have wandered around various High St (or shopping mall stores) the chance of happening upon the exact spec was not high - I ordered the exact spec I wanted on line and I’m pretty sure Messrs Bluewater and local Sports Direct didn’t miss me that much - I certainly didn’t miss traipsing around shops full of teenagers on school holidays! Do we really need to be expressing ‘outraged of Tunbridge Wells’ type sentiment for 18 pages and a month about this Hornby matter, particularly where we’ve seen an explanation and promise to put it right, albeit indirectly possibly 9 pages ago? Just another thought - dealers don’t always get it right - we’ve heard about people missing out on a recent very popular model (or maybe it was the manufacturer getting the details wrong - we have not heard). Nothing to do with this issue with Hornby but just another thought.

No doubt the Mayor would get the blame via the press for such a politically explosive action (removing elements of free travel for the elderly), paving the way for a Tory mayor. Surely Grant Shapps wouldn’t be playing politics here…………. 🤣 he comes over as a very ill informed SoS (in his grossly inaccurate commentary on the rail disputes) - either that or he’s incompetent or a maybe rabid politician. One wonders, cynically whether the inherited cost of maintaining the 1000 special Boris buses ad infinitum or until they’re worn out or thrown away (TfL has to pay for this as no operator in their right minds would underwrite the costs at the time) is a drain on resources - they are also having to fund refurbishment as unlike most buses in London TfL owns them. The normal model is the operator provides and maintains the buses as part of the contract for the route (s) - as the NBFL are ‘bespoke buses’, it’s very likely they’re more expensive to maintain (three sets of doors, two staircases, greater length etc etc for starters).

Dapol Manor now in stock at Hattons (according to the email I’ve just received). https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/2151/dapol_oo_4_6_0_class_78xx_manor_gwr&utm_source=klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=modvehid2151-dapolmanorinstock#models

Im quite surprised really, a number people have been asking Accurascale for both a 31 and a 37 in this form (admittedly me being one of them!!) - as well as green, and also mentioning it in the Bachmann 37 thread. The fact is many if not most items of hauled stock are made available in pre TOPS BR variants. Fact is there seems to be a lot of interest in the transition period from BR green (and maroon) to BR blue - which actually ran alongside the last knockings of steam (except on the WR who’d dumped theirs by the end of 65 (mostly)) - judging by the threads on it on this forum and the books available commercially. For me, this period coincided with early/mid teens, ability to travel around to seek out stock to spot - and I’m guessing my demographic/age group is quite reasonably if not heavily represented in railway modelling. And yes, speaking from my perspective I’d love to see one of the new Bachmann class 47s in either green or blue or both, pre TOPS, in WR or even LMR form!! A named one would be nice!!

Thanks for that - very helpful 😀

I get your dilemma, @The Stationmaster - I wasn’t basing my thoughts on what I’d read in books, more of a knowledge of how the class 25 was used and performed, say on the LM Region, and the 30/31 on the Eastern. I don’t recall the services, freight and passenger, they operated suffering from gross unreliability or even any particular unreliability - the class 50 is another case in point - the mainstay of Crewe to Scotland passenger services from new until electrification and again, I don’t recall particular unreliability. I suppose there are several differences here:- 1) the locos were new in those environments - they were significantly older (possibly relatively thrashed in the case of the 50s, having been used day to day with heavy loads over the gradients of Shap and Beattock) when transferred. 2) the maintainers on the WR had to learn these locos, it seems from a standing start, as did the drivers. Whilst those on the LMR and ER were also starting from scratch, this was new traction so there was a lot of training to get up to speed. 3) the locos were largely steam replacement on the ER and LM (although i suspect the last few 25s replaced CoBos from new) - the WR had replaced their steam by 1965, so the cascaded traction was imposed on an already dieselised region - and appears to have not entirely fitted the type 3 and type 4 regime which had been adopted on the WR (possibly uniquely when compared with the national system - although in some respects it matched subsequent nationwide Policy). But I still find it hard to reconcile some of the comments I have heard about these locos on the WR when compared to their regions of origin. As has been said earlier in this thread, were the locos used appropriately, and added to that, were they in need of overhaul, and did the maintainers have sufficient training to deal with them effectively? I suspect the answer and reasons are a lot more complex than simply the locos were not fit for purpose (they clearly were fit for purpose as they had previously functioned satisfactorily and in some usages, very well on their home regions). That they created a problem for planners and operators on the WR is not disputed. How much of the problem was self inflicted owing to deeply entrenched regional preconceptions, practices and attitudes across the organisation is questionable.

So effectively, the 31 would be reduced to a Type 1 classification - similar to a single class 20 - surprising, really - however still suitable for short passenger trains?

Im not sure everyone would agree with your assessment of the abilities of the class 31, @The Stationmaster - I think the WR was rather spoiled with the volume of type 3 locos it acquired (nearly 300 initially) and Type 4s (over 300 initially), whereas it’s type 2 and type 1 fleet numbered 58 and 56 respectively (it didn’t ‘get away with’ its desired 300 type 1s - and subsequent fleet managers no doubt breathed a sign of relief, even if Swindon lamented the chance to build them). However use of class 30/31 on the ER, for which they were built and predominantly worked over their first decade of use included the train types you think they’re not suitable for - in fact were a backbone of the ER fleet. I recall them in use on 8 or 10 coach Norwich to Birmingham trains in the mid 60s, without problem. It is a similar story with the class 25, which did great work around the country but are not remembered with much love when used on the WR. My thought is these locos were compared with 1700 hp plus Hymeks and class 37, which is obviously not a fair comparison and one wonders why WRs motive power and services were so organised they couldn’t do with less than 1700 hp - after all, the class 22 was just about a type 2 (and thus easily surpassed by a class 25); agreed a 31 is not a Hymek or 37, but why would you expect it to be - surely dropping a couple of wagons would even things up? And in any case, WR still claimed to need 300 type 1s as late as 1963 - the transferred type 2s and the offer of class 20s (never taken up) would surely have covered this. I know hindsight is very helpful and times were changing daily, but one can’t get past the feeling the WR motive power planning was somewhat awry (to put it mildly) in those days, five decades ago! I’m sure classes 25 and 31 had their plusses and minuses but I would be a little cautious of a view on their use on the WR, where clearly motive power and traction was largely based on a rather different formula from the indigenous stomping grounds of the classes. The WR was somewhat wedded to its hydraulics and although they had their benefits (when working), comparison against cast offs from other regions brought in to replace the hydraulics may result in a somewhat jaundiced view (note class 50 also).

I suspect we should never look a gift horse in the mouth - especially an unexpected one 😉

Excellent news - I have one of those (92167 - Saltley loco) on order and am looking forward to receiving it. A surprise bonus that the crew feature is provided free of charge (and in pristine outfits to match the ex works loco 😀 ).

Let’s hope batch 2 includes a couple of WR centre headcode ones - there were 190+ at one time in green syp, as built for quite a few years and some in blue fye with D numbers as well. Not currently represented in either manufacturer’s releases 🤨

Thanks @hmrspaul Let’s hope Rapido shift the offending lettered panels around to correct an otherwise very impressive model!

For those of us unfortunates who liked the look of and have ordered the Worcester brake van, I’m presuming the number/ weight panels and/or the RU etc panels are incorrect in some way - are you able to explain the problems to those of us who are less knowledgeable on 60s WR brake vans, please, Paul? I’m certainly keen to have one as I well remember them on ex WR lines around and just south of the Birmingham Division. I would echo the request to correct it as well (even before hearing what the errors are!!). My layout is certainly not based on the WSR (fabulous as that railway is!!).

If Accurascale had announced an original WR one (GSYP and/or BFYE pre TOPS version) Id have ordered one of each - bearing in mind the WR at one time or another had all of D6819-6608 plus at least one of the earlier locos on test/ familiarisation - admittedly some not for very long - however there is a Bachmann sample which fits this guise so is the closest yet!! Id love to see one of the original diesel Lickey bankers (D6938 etc) in green but any WR ones will be fine (including any of the BFYE ones pre removal of D from the numbers). Maybe we’ll get the option of buying a couple from each manufacturer!! I really like the Bachmann version announced - though the liveried versions, in my opinion, look even better.

Thanks for this and I don’t doubt this - just to clarify, I wasn’t questioning the instances of reduced allocations stated in this thread in any way - just observing the volume of posts simply stating or restating various opinions outweighed those mentioning instances of specific reduced allocations by a very large factor.

Im sure this is correct but many manufacturers don’t, and having researched all 66 odd pages of a thread for one particular model, which did have input from a manufacturer (which doesn’t seem to engage at the same level these days), I think it can be a double edged sword. I’ve seen this on forums associated with completely different hobbies, even to the extent of famous people being hounded off such forums by people with grudges and internet empowerment (even though mods could correct things later, the end result was the same). So I’m not surprised some manufacturers don’t engage directly. Some may have had their fingers burned in the past perhaps? I must admit to being a little surprised we are 15 pages and 20 days into a thread where, one might have imagined the level of individuals expressing internet outrage and comment on this single subject (barring a few tangents along the way), the oxygen for debate might have been consumed by now!! Apparently not!! Not wishing to unwittingly provide additional oxygen, but we also seem to have a huge volume of opinion v fact on the actual reduced allocations (I know a couple of examples have been quoted way back but I’d almost forgotten about these!!)

Well how wonderful - there are clearly centre headcode WR versions to come so I shall be hoping for both as built green versions (syp), and early blue fye (with Ds on the numbers), pre TOPS!! Im certainly impressed by these models - good to see free market capitalism is still extant - of course we haven’t been privy to televised film of either Bachmann or Accurascale going off like ballistic missiles regarding competitors, unlike individuals from the Margate organisation doing so (Terrier and others) - I’m sure without that a certain percentage of the vitriol aimed at them would not have occurred (although the Titfield and dealer allocations may have done). Anyway it’s clear this class 37 upgrade (Bachmann) has been in the works for quite a while. im very impressed with what I’ve seen.