MidlandRed

Yes an absolute must (preferably WR versions - and I don’t mind if they are Vulcan versions (by far the most prolific) or RSH (only 40 WR ones although included the D688xs - so probably the Central Wales headlight fitted ones - not initially but eventually)!!

I agree - however the decision to permit cruise missiles at those US bases was a current matter at that time, in the public eye (as was the transportation of nuclear waste, and the import of nuclear waste - the strap line at the time was U.K. was the dirty man of Europe, nuclear dust bin etc etc). I guess the irony is the bases concerned were all closed down within a decade or two!!

These photos are great, as always. I notice in C415 you have captured a pair of the High Dyke branch token fitted class 30/31s - from this and previous sets of photos of them posted in the thread, it appears the handful of locos managed to be in a number of livery variants including of rail blue in this period!! Let’s hope those masters of super-detail, Accurascale, get round to doing a couple of these variants at some stage (@McC 😁)

No irony - just stating fact. And yes I remember and was fully aware of the public feeling regarding the potential for nuclear Armageddon - in that era you couldn’t fail to notice the televised reports of protests of various types against nuclear weapons, not least Greenham Common. To spell it out, people’s concern, as well as the more general one regarding nuclear war at the time (which had been around since the 50s in the U.K.), was fuelled by the decision in the 80s to permit nuclear weapons at various US bases in the U.K. at the time, many people being concerned this would make those parts of the U.K. direct targets. Although this background against nuclear existed (as did arguments that nuclear power was far too expensive), I think it’s rather fanciful to think the PR exercise at Old Dalby was not a direct result of public mistrust of the Government and nuclear power industry caused by previous issues in the industry and the fact the flasks were being transported through highly populated areas - any leak being likely to affect a very large area. It probably fulfilled its purpose, although as I said previously, I recall a documentary where various experts said the flask had sustained damage (contrary to official statements). It can’t have been significant enough to cause a leak I guess. The use of Sellafield to process other country’s nuclear waste in that era was also something of public concern - a multi-faceted issue in reality. I thought the protestors at Dover were as likely to be surrounding lorry loads of sheep and the like (live animal import/export) - however somewhat off topic, sorry!!

Sorry I must have missed that post - so you’re saying it hit the abutment of an overbridge head on, or was it a glancing blow whilst passing under? It would have likely knocked a parapet over, and although that wasn’t the scenario I had in mind I suppose the wagon falling off a viaduct or bridge in a built up area might create more force when it landed. An Interesting scenario anyway. I don’t doubt there are lots of procedures - I just wouldn’t have fancied dealing with a freight train derailment involving a collision with a flask train back in those days - although I guess the days of mounds of splintered wagons and loads mixed together in such circumstances had probably gone largely by the early 80s - that’s usually what confronted investigators when they arrived on site in earlier times. I guess it’s only natural for the public (and even professionals) to be interested and even sceptical about official or political statements - after all it wasn’t too many years later the same Government was attempting to assure the public BSE couldn’t be transmitted to humans and a rather foolish Secretary of State participated in a televised PR stunt where he fed a burger from a mobile van at an agricultural show to his young daughter, in a bid to assure the public it was safe to do so. What could possibly go wrong 🙃

Extraordinary photo - platforms newly extended and 3rd rails in place, all part of the Kent Coast scheme presumably - are the platform extensions to allow for six or eight car trains (presumably the direct peak services to/from London)? Also incredibly rural in this direction - the left side is completely developed now.

Already did, several times but thanks for the advice (or was it a telling off 🤪)

There is a difference in magnitude and thus ultimate risk in having a nuclear leak - even from a minor break in integrity of the container - this is majorly so in a nuclear power station let alone on a train. However I agree regarding some of the concoctions which travel around our rail and road systems! Have we had a flask collide with an immovable object (eg bridge parapet) - I’m aware we’ve had several passenger and freight incidents involving bridges but I’m not sure we have empirical evidence of how various items behave in such collisions - apart from the drop tests which were used to prove the flasks in the first place (and the questioning of which led to the Old Dalby PR show). Remember Great Heck resulted in a fundamental change in how most rail over bridges (and other scenario) are protected from incursion. Standards change as a result of operational experience - the system of analysing risk for containment by vehicle restraint systems has changed fundamentally as a result of design standard review.

I wasn’t really aiming to make a political point, more to set a historical scene - and of course the base rate was in the hands of politicians back then to manipulate as they wanted - it took Blair’s Government to place it completely in the hands of the now independent BoE. The interest rate was generally very high during the 80s, and exceedingly so in comparison with modern times. However the point of this was simply to use one (of many pointers) to the need for grandiose PR exercises like the Old Dalby crash in that rather difficult period (for many although not all) in our history.

But plenty of scope for a derailment with the flask(s) colliding with some immovable object like a bridge abutment, in relatively close proximity to very significant volumes of population. The times when the ‘test’ were done were different, the Thatcher Government dealing extremely unsympathetically with lots of social issues created by their actions (such as increasing interest base rates to 15%!!!), and the problems of massive protests in the context of US nuclear missiles being stationed within fairly close proximity of such Home Counties locations as Newbury!! There was much disquiet about these trains rumbling through the conurbations of the country, and the problems created by sealing the waste off the coast was another issue, so the ‘test’ was an excellent PR exercise. However I seem to recall some years later a TV documentary concluding that the allegation the flask was undamaged after the collision was in fact, incorrect - I don’t recall the details or whether the damage had any level of significance. As for the timing of the trains, I recall seeing one whilst waiting for a train, within the last few years, pass through Bromley South in the up direction after the morning peak - presumably travelling from Dungeness - not likely now as Dungeness is out of operation currently - but this seems to contradict some of the comments here on timing of trains - certainly the passenger trains might not have been quite as full as in the peak then, but South London was certainly pretty busy at the time and any leak (or potential for) would affect a massive area and not just impact rail operations. Nuclear power is an interesting one - I recall a few years back my EDF bill showing the cost of each form of electricity provided - at the time nuclear was 70% of my bill and was significantly more expensive than any other form!! The Chernobyl incident (which affected such diverse items as Welsh lamb), did nothing to improve the PR of nuclear either!! It has always had a dual role, partially providing as a by product material for the nuclear weapons programme. So I am a little sceptical of it as a reasonably priced form of power - although I’m not anti it - having worked for a design consultant which was heavily involved with Hinckley Point amongst other stations, which was an on/off/on/off feast, creating massive mobilisation issues, I also realise this industry is massively costly and that from time to time the operators and their contractors (including rail) need to engage in significant PR exercises to help maintain support.

There are plenty of signs at the interfaces of the overhead system with third rail (have been since South Eastern High Speed commenced operation) at Ebbsfleet and Ashford. Not only do they change from/to third rail in the platform at Ebbsfleet station but they also change to/from cab signalling. The overhead extends some distance beyond the changeover point also. Not sure whether there have been any incidents there but I’m not aware of any. I suppose this is more of a change of electrical system rather than an electric train being routed off the electrified network though.

To an extent, the success (or willingness) of the strategic local authorities to lobby for major national infrastructure to reap benefits for the areas they pass through has a bearing on this. Look at HS1 and Kent - as well as the series of environmental features, way beyond HS1 one of the trade offs was to receive comprehensive train services making use of the new facilities which resulted in South Eastern High Speed. Whilst technically more difficult (slotting into the very high speed through services), it remains surprising there is no link to a hub serving say, Aylesbury. It’s surprising Buckinghamshire haven’t been doing the same - my understanding was they were in full opposition mode rather than anything else - probably a reflection of public feeling in that area, but also the fact they get all the disbenefits and few tangible benefits is somewhat surprising given the aspiration for development, especially on the Oxford/Cambridge corridor, which crosses HS2.

At 5.40 in this You Tube film of Wolverhampton Low Level, a Hymek runs through light engine - not sure of the date though - Low Level appears to be fully operational though. There is also footage of D1000 in Desert Sand livery (around 1.09). https://youtu.be/6N_0WBcss98

I’ve always found something of interest in transport and rail operations, finding plenty of variety in the current day offerings. Thinking back, I recall vividly the streams of letters and other commentary which appeared in Railway Magazine around 1968 from the equivalent of ‘disgusted of Tunbridge Wells’ vowing to terminate their interest in British Rail as a result of the removal of steam!! Also the appearance of technically based articles putting forward arguments as to why steam was, in reality better!!! Looking at the popularity of diesel galas on preserved railways, those of us who worried the hobby might somehow diminish in popularity need have had no worry!! However steam followers would travel the world in search of main line operations, particularly after 1968.

The ex GWR station at Barnstaple (Victoria Road) closed to passengers in 1960. The trains for Taunton left from the ex SR Barnstaple Junction subsequently, until the route closed in October 1966 - the Bideford route closed to passengers in Oct 1965. This sticks in my mind as I spent some time (as a child) visiting Barnstaple Junction in the summer of 1966, and a train left for Taunton formed of the first of the second batch ex Valleys class 116 W50818/59326/50871 - a prize underlining in my Combined Volume (you’ll have to humour me having such interest in, what some enthusiasts considered very mundane matters)!! However this unit, apparently one of Laira’s at the time, and lacking destination blinds at Barnstaple, had been moved to Hamilton (ScR) along with most of the other early batch 2 class 116 by Oct 66 (the rest had gone to S Gosforth), so didn’t get underlined until Finsbury Park received some of them - and of course, the withered arm and Taunton to Barnstaple all closed Oct 66. Loco hauled goods was in the hands of class 22 locos, and the other local passenger services were class 118 DMUs (occasional through Ilfracombe passenger being Warship hauled).

Absolutely, I agree. However they should have been ok on the type 2 duties and possibly some of the lighter Hymek duties.

However, surely not in the pre 1963 period when the old WR Birmingham Division was transferred to the LMR (as per @Weaselfish original post)?? A Hymek also ran an early evening parcels service, I think from Worcester (3M02) via Hartlebury, Stourbridge J, Rowley Regis, Smethwick West (all of which is ex WR), Soho, Perry Barr North, Bescot towards Wolverhampton - often one of the Lickey Banker allocated locos. Were the Soho Pool trains also headed by class 47s in the later 60s? I know when one was derailed and tankers rolled down the embankment on the curve in Handsworth Park, that train was hauled by a 47.

Extraordinary to note that both the LM and before them, the SR, found it possible to use the 1160 hp class 24 on class 1 passenger, but in later years the WR found the more powerful class 25 (and class 31) so wanting for their patterns of work 🤪

Extraordinarily high mounted number and logo on 25 261 - a nice one to model?! As was often the case the number looks to have been raised (and thus not in accordance with the ‘in line with the space between the lines in the logo’ directive, to accommodate a data panel). I recall Croft being announced at BNS as part of the stopping DMU service (often Cravens operated) from Birmingham to Leicester - followed by Narborough - if you travelled in one of the driving cars you stood a good chance of having dental fillings shaken loose by the end of the journey 🤣

The occasional 508s had a reassuringly vintage (tick tick tick tick) sound (reminded me of 304s/AM4s back in the 60s) amongst the wall to wall Networkers and Electrostars at Beckenham Junction when commuting!! Very stylish interiors too with their oval door windows on the corridor connections and elegant and complex design of overhead grab rails in the door vestibules. Nice to see one in blue and grey 😀

It looks like someone’s attached an MFI wardrobe door to the front of the car 🤪 someone did a similar trick on the tram only tracks (off street - standard rail-ish type formation) near Birmingham Snow Hill at Christmas.

Liberal coating of engine (or fuel) oil down the side of it!! This can’t have been long from being withdrawn?

It must be nice to be working with a clean train for once - although 66789 wasn’t bad as well. Judging by the state of cleanliness of some traction (66, 68 and 73) - presumably caused by use on RHTT, it did make me wonder how and where the likes of GBRf get their locos cleaned - I have visions of you guys with a mop and bucket patch cleaning the windows, doors and cabsides.

Yes, interesting thoughts as always @The Stationmaster However, have you seen the classic car ‘collector’s market’, where people collect multiple items and pay tens of thousands and more for items (and that’s before you get to the really high priced stuff sold through v posh auctioneers). There appear to be a huge number of people involved in this judging by the frequency and volume of on line auctions. Similar for railwayana - there was a theory a few years back that the market for this would crash as steam era people departed, as it were - however it seems to be as popular as ever. It’s the same with guitar collection - the skys the limit if you have a spare several hundred thousand pounds - and many have multiple items/pieces. I sometimes wonder if the theory, which seems to pervade RMWeb, that Hornby flies by the seat of the pants and does no market research just lurching around perhaps does them a dis-service and in reality they know a lot more than us interested observers, despite the odd faux pas which comes to light I seem to recall reading a few days ago in this thread that the HD Deltic had already sold out!!

Let’s hope that centre headcode WR models might have proper headcodes and proper numbers like D68xx, D69xx or even…….D66xx, and in blue fye or green syp - I’m aware this might be a bit old hat for some around these parts but here’s hoping!!!