MidlandRed

I also watched the cams during the same period - the San Remo cam showed the area towards Exeter and at times the waves deposited sufficient water to create pools across the tracks but it soon drained. I thought the volume of ballast around the sleepers on the up, between the rails looked somewhat depleted - whether that was caused by the regular drenching over a period of about 4 hrs I don’t know. However @The Stationmaster is correct. At high tide (around 8 pm the previous day), the wave spray picked up by the south easterly was extraordinary - occasionally actually splashing the camera. Several local trains (150s and 165s) got a severe spraying from waves crashing across the up end of the Dawlish platforms. IETs broke down at Exeter and Newton Abbott. In terms of the station, yesterday morning, one large waves resulted in sea water pouring off the down end of the down platform. I suspect had the civil engineering works not been carried out there would have been serious consequences and flooding around the most exposed areas (station, subway etc).

It actually washed over the whole width of the road two or three times, depositing a lot of stones. The You Tube film in the next post by @woodenhead shows this towards the end.

What era was this @The Stationmaster? I’m afraid I’m stuck in 1966-70 transition era rather than anything else (or even Wipac headlights…)! And was this a nationwide ban on nose end working?

Interesting clip. For clarity, Bescot’s class 20s appeared in summer 1966 and disappeared (to Nottingham Division), some in 1968, some in 1969. The locos involved were D8035,6 and D8040-44 (ex London Division - D01) and D8134-43 (new). The traditional double heading of these locos with the cabs at outer ends on the LMR really commenced with the allocation of D8144-99 new at Toton (although even from there I seem to recall some trips running with single locos). I wouldn’t like to say Bescot’s were used only singly but given the steam work they replaced, it was certainly commonplace to see them running singly on freight. This period was, of course when diesels had proper numbers (not TOPS) and proper headcodes (1966-69 to be precise). Seeing the new model of D8133 (thus definitely on topic, although not related to the models of later era class 20s), I immediately thought this would be a good candidate for renumbering for me, to replicate a Bescot loco (which did get into the northern reaches of the then God’s Wonderful (Region..) in that era, as evidenced by the film of the accident at Hartlebury posted by @Phil Bullock

Certainly did - Bescot had D8134-43 new, plus a handful of D804x at dieselisation of the shed - they usually ran singly on trip freights and could often be seen running bonnet first - particular duties I recall them on had previously been operated by 464xx or 76xxx steam locos. They weren’t around for very long before transfer to Toton - replaced by more class 24/25s.

I’d agree it’s even more blingy than the Ivatt tank I saw at the GCR but it can be toned down by the purchaser if that’s what they want. I must admit I don’t recall seeing many spotless ex GW copper capped chimneys back in the 60s either (but absolutely all models of those prototypes have them). I suspect even those intricately modelled and coloured bits of pipework, handrails and the like on modern very accurately modelled diesels may be slightly out of scale and definitely only visible in that form immediately ex works or within a few days of being so. I guess there’s a balance in these things - a bugbear of mine is the overscale window dividers on some of these - admittedly the latest class 30/31s are light years better than my early 60s Triang ones - but they still look overscale to me - but still good enough for me to have ordered one!!! I think Hornby have done a great job on this 2MT and should be congratulated. Even the slightly odd slope of the cab sides on the prototype is captured.

I’ll be honest, having had 65+ yrs involvement with model railways I’ve never known anything other than pristine models and I suspect that has been the case, as they say, since time immemorial!! Regrettably in my childhood I disfigured several, now quite valuable, model locos with repaints and/or weathering. Because that’s how I saw the trains at the time. I now lament having done so when I get them out of their boxes. But that is why some modellers weather their own locos and there are a number of firms which specialise in it. I shan’t be subjecting any of my Accurascale or Sutton’s Loco Works diesels (or Hornby 9F) to weathering in spite of remembering well seeing the few weeks old class 25s like D5234 in dirty condition running from Saltley with only the numbers, windows and safety markings totally clean. There’s plenty of views on line of 6 month old ML freight locos in filthy condition (and WL passenger ones such as D1953-61). Just my preference but I like the look of them pristine, as they would have appeared at Derby Works open days!! Just my take in it. However the choice is there to weather them if that’s what you want.

Preservation, admittedly - and not quite as blingy as Hornby’s superb 2MT, but I was taken with 41312 at Loughborough a couple of years back, partially because of the clean pipework.

Interesting choice of 25s - no doubt pure coincidence but 5179-82 were products of Darlington and 7624/5 of Beyer Peacock. At least that would put paid to any WR anti-Derby bias (if it even existed at that stage…)!! Did that brake format affect any other transfers? I seem to recall further class 37s from elsewhere had this. On the point about gears on Hymeks, the group allocated for Lickey banking duties had modifications (first gear locked out?) following initial issues experienced.

I recall the Hymeks being used to dieselise Paddington-Worcester/ Hereford - there was an article in Railway Magazine at the time - they replaced 7P rated Castles. I don’t know if the load was reduced but if not, this would surely have stretched their abilities. I don’t remember the exact details, or whether there was any intermediate operation, but these services were operated by class 43 Warships (Type 4) in the latter part of the 60s along with Brush Type 4s. The north and west route was variously operated by brand new Brush type 4s (1964 on) and also Warship class (once again type 4) - presumably until the service was derated to DMUs (although the class 123Inter City Units appeared at one time). The Hymeks were also used on the Cardiff/Bristol/Portsmouth route at one time (another one where class 123 DMUs operated when fairly new). I always thought the class 25s and 31s were given a tough ride by the WR - the 25s were used on duties requiring class 8 or higher steam power in the Peak District, so I’m astonished the WR couldn’t operate them effectively with four coaches (replacing three DMU power cars, effectively) or four GUVs!! I was never sure whether this was caused by operator fallibilities, allocated to unsuitable duties at times, not invented here syndrome, the locos being worn out when acquired by the WR (many were over 10 yrs old when sent although Newport received several of the newest, 5 yr old models, some of which had been used at one time on ex Co Bo duties around Carlisle), worse than not invented here syndrome, invented by Derby syndrome, or simply that the rarified air in the south west and Wales was only suitable for locos of Churchward parentage, or designed and built by Swindon or North British!! Whatever - I think they got a rough ride on the WR where others (basically everyone else) seemed to get good work out of them. I remember seeing the first little group of class 31s sent to OOC at the end of the 60s, and mighty smart they looked too, compared to the squat class 22s, some of which seemed to suffer from WR coach washer paint strip and bits of valances missing - the operators must have relished those 1470 horses compared to the 1100 odd of the class 22. As interested observers, we certainly loved both of the classes but I’d guess the passengers thought the 31s looked better at Paddington’s buffer stops - excepting the handful of overhauled 22s, which looked smart for a while. To answer those questions about retention of Hymeks, they certainly seemed to be successful and modern looking locos. However the fact is BR had far too many locos by the late 60s so it was clear a reduction would occur - starting with the most unsuccessful and troublesome classes - followed by a period of standardisation (removing non standard classes). The WR had a surfeit of type 3s (and type 4s) - at one time around 300 of each. Imagine if their plans had come to fruition there’d have been 400 type 1s as well (curtailed at 56 class 14s). This logic seems to have been based on replacing steam duties on an exact basis (I recall reading 2 out, 1 in for the earlier WR dieselisation schemes) - Beeching and the NTP (national traction planning as opposed to regional planning) put paid to all of this. The WCML effect should not be underestimated as well - when fully on stream in 1967 along with converting most freight and all passenger services to electric haulage, large amounts of diesel power were released.

Excellent photos, as always. However the last photo is not Perry Barr - it’s actually at Winson Green (about half a mile north of the prison)! The first bridge carries the electrified Soho junction to Perry Barr junction line, and the second, plate girder bridge carries what remained, at that time, of the ex GWR main line from Bham Snow Hill to Wolverhampton - Winson Green tram stop is now located the other side of the bridge and it carries the Metro and the line from Snow Hill towards Stourbridge. We are facing north east, towards Handsworth, on the A4040 Handsworth New Road (the Outer Circle bus route operates along here). At this time there was a rail accessed steel terminal on the right, between the bridges.

Many firms (including the one I worked for until retirement) and Govt departments (or arms length parts) have actually downsized on office space and cannot accommodate all of their employees at once any longer so full time office work for many is out of the question - a rota of part time attendance in the office is in place - the employers are reaping the benefits of reduced rent and other overheads for office space and are very unlikely to re let office space, one would imagine. On that subject I recall that a certain Minister used to be in the habit of leaving notes on civil servant’s desks bemoaning their absence when he called to speak to them, because they were working from home at the time (he may not have had access to a phone possibly) - that person seems to have discovered an entirely new way to work away from the office, spending lots of time broadcasting on GB News - makes you wonder how such sitting MPs find time to perform the task they have been elected for and are being financed to do so by taxes….

Rather like HS1 services, when there is disruption people migrate to services from Victoria, Cannon St, Charing Cross, London Bridge - HS2 it would be WCML, Chiltern, GW etc etc. Notwithstanding the other economic factors you mention, journey time on HS2 will surely be commutable and there will be excellent linkages to other routes and modes at the Birmingham end. One of the main changes to commuting has been the growth of hybrid working - say two or three days in the office, the rest at home. I can see HS2 attracting business traffic.

Also two overground services - the North London one via Hackney, Dalston etc is particularly busy. Easy reach by Jubilee line of West Ham (one stop), another significant interchange.

I think you’ll find Birmingham to London is precisely a commuter railway. HS1 was not conceived as a commuter railway - that it gained a very useful longish distance commuter service is precisely because of the strategic local authorities along the route lobbying for such over a significant period - I was there and know that - they also sought and obtained huge amounts of finance for significant highway improvements around Kent resulting from the Channel Tunnel. Im not really comparing one with the other (although this is a thread about HS1 and its development compared to HS2) merely stating a view (with some knowledge of their approach) that the strategic authorities that the route passes through seem to have missed opportunities to lobby for better strategic transportation outcomes (in contrast to HS1).

If HS1 is anything to go by, and specifically Ebbsfleet (around parallel to Northfleet on the North Kent line), when you consider you can drive from the centre of Maidstone by high speed road (most of the way), say 20 mins, and then travel to St Pancras International in 18 mins it’s hardly surprising so many people use it as a park and ride - I never understood the volume of car parking provided but a lot is in use on this basis these days - it’s also possible to interchange to many routes from Stratford International. For those who think HS1 does not help most towns in Kent, the effectively, roundabout circuit takes in Gravesend, all of the main Medway towns, Sittingbourne, Faversham, the north and East Kent coast towns to Ramsgate, Canterbury, Ashford, Folkestone, Dover. As I’ve just said, Ebbsfleet is easy to get to from Maidstone (which also has direct commuter services). Ashford to St P is 37 mins - I know of a number of people who commute from there, Canterbury and the Kent coast route - I also know people who commute to the dock lands developments via HS1, Stratford Int, tube and or/DLR. Transport links and opportunities are transformed. The Elizabeth Line adds further opportunities from Abbey Wood. I’m also astonished the LAs along HS2 haven’t lobbied harder for something to help their travellers and residents.

I’m not sure what you mean by this but the Javelin service serves most towns in East and Mid Kent and seems to be found useful to the people that fill the trains pretty well in both peak and off peak. I personally find the service very useful indeed. It’s somewhat surprising that on HS2 the likes of Buckinghamshire CC et al haven’t sought something similar to the additional transport network Kent achieved with HS1 - they appear to have been in full objection mode rather than seeking potential economic benefits. Kent appears to have achieved both the domestic transport links, environmental mitigation and additional environmental mitigation along existing routes where planned Channel Tunnel traffic (including freight flows) would operate.

They look really good. Is the ETA still early next year?

@The Stationmaster I think much of the outstanding will be on pre-order, either directly or via dealers, but yet to be paid for - so they’ll be wanting to get it out as soon as it arrives, within reason - it will affect income significantly I’d guess - whether it comes out pre Christmas etc I guess will just be coincidence - and largely affected by the vagaries of Chinese manufacturing with the various events going on there which have/continue to affect production.

Weirdly, the first time I ever saw an AM10 was early in 1967, in twilight from a bus at Winson Green - with its bright fluorescent lighting and totally different look from the archaic AM4 - it must have been running a Coventry to Wolverhampton stopper. I also saw them in those early days of electrification at Stafford - probably running the stopper to Rugby. As you said, a Birmingham to Manchester semi fast would almost certainly be an AM4 bone shaker, most services south of Birmingham were AM10 operated. Remember though, a small batch of AM4s was repainted blue (syp) and used from Bletchley for Euston services for a time in 1966 pending receipt of the whole batch of AM10s.

Absolutely - and though difficult for us forum members to countenance, there’s quite a proportion of railway modellers who seemingly don’t frequent internet forums (fora??!!) 😄

It will be on Moor St Queensway - and very close to Moor St station - more importantly 5 mins walk from the Bull Ring Centre (arguably the heart of Birmingham - at least shopping wise) and another 5 mins walk from New St station. The latter never was particularly accessible to the heart of Birmingham (probably used to be New St and Corporation St In shopping terms), although possibly more so than the GW effort at Snow Hill! It’s much better now that it has pedestrian access at Stephenson St and Navigation St. The HS2 station will have a tram link into the Metro network which serves other parts of the business centres of Birmingham and….. New St station. As a born and bred Brummie I have had to get used to the face of the city centre - and it’s breadth and indeed central focus, changing more than once over my lifetime - indeed I now know how my elderly relatives used to feel when comprehensive redevelopment occurred in the 60s - but it is fundamentally inaccurate to say HS2 will not have comprehensive transport links in the centre of Birmingham!!

I agree the AM4 (304) was an awesome beast. I particularly liked the suggestion of dust generator to replicate the cloud that used to rise when you sat down. The seats were so creaky and the springs boingy as well. We had to endure them in place of Park Royal DMUs, (and GRCW), which they replaced, Birmingham to Walsall, and they felt like a return to the steam age, comfort wise. And those single compartments - accessed only by the door on each side!!! Very odd indeed. They were most certainly surpassed by the altogether up to date (at the time) AM10 units, which were a vast improvement in all respects (ride quality, quietness, seats and fittings and external design). AND there were half (or a third) height windows at the ends which you could look out of and see the way ahead or behind if you kneeled on the seat. When travelling on the trainspotters’ special (Birmingham to Euston semi fast) (it had a slower top speed than the ALx hauled expresses so you could get numbers easier as you passed locations - it also slowed down to stop at some key ones), the only worry was emerging from the Northampton line into Roade cutting where units 071 and 094 had each, during the later 60s, on separate occasions, come to grief colliding with ALx hauled derailed freight trains formed of short wheelbase wagons. 094 was the first to disappear in about 1967 followed by 071 a while later - though some cars from 094 got formed into another unit (the tiny unit numbers on the ends being visible if parked in a station). Come on Accurascale - a suite of 304 based and 310 based EMUs would be wonderful - also AL2,3,4 type AC electrics (AL5 done by Others - surely a high fi AL1 would be a stonking Hornby Dublo reissue to commemorate the last loco type made by the original Hornby company).

I have to beg to differ with you here - there are several ‘green’ tunnels on HS1 protecting villages like Boxley, Hollingbourne and Harrietsham from excessive noise - environmental mitigation effectively. I recall a few years back sitting in the garden of a very pleasant gastro pub in the rural North Downs, not too far from Maidstone when I heard an appalling din which sounded like a jet plane - followed closely by another - it took me a couple of minutes to realise it was a Eurostar train passing on HS1, a mile or so away, and located on an embankment/over bridge. Now the M20 is not too far away from it but that is more of a background hum that you don’t even notice after a while - the noise from the Eurostar is something that is very intrusive. Lots of noise fencing and other techniques like earth bunds are in place also. So I’m not surprised HS2 is having these items. Yes we need the scheme, but let’s not destroy the environment and people’s home environments in the process - these environmental features and mitigations are essential (same on road projects). I just want to know when the arches are to be painted yellow/gold 😃 No doubt votes do come into the equation as well but environmental studies will have been carried out across a broad range of subject areas and mitigations of all sorts incorporated.

I saw W56289 parked in the sidings at St Erth during the summer of 1966 (green livery) - presumably there as available strengthening if required - the branch was being run by a 3 car ex South Wales class 116 set from batch 3 at the time. I have the car numbers somewhere! W55015 was recorded in Railway Magazine early in 1967 as operating the Looe branch (referred to it as the Looe branch car, in blue livery). There is a photo of an unidentified blue SYP car on the Looe branch in the RCTS photo archive also, I presumed was 55015. Interestingly W55000 went to Scotland some time before the others along with the railbuses - presumably displaced when the Bodmin/Padstow etc lines closed.