Humbrol Enamel Paints

[john new]

Hornby not taking older stuff back without credit = another shot in the foot with regard to their traders

 

Hornby not being aware as manufacturer the ban was coming is possibly a shot in the other foot! (Don't know if the ban was a very short lead time item)

[Hibelroad]

I’ve read that paint containing more than .01% Beko can be labelled as such and then it’s OK to sell it to the trade. Presumably tradesmen are a tougher lot than us modellers. On a practical level a tradesman may apply several litres of paint every day, as modellers we apply the odd tiny brush full occasionally therefore it seems to be another overreaction by “them”. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

7 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

I'm sure I saw Humbrol in Boyes a few days ago when visiting family in Grantham  - according to their website they have around 60 shops in the Midlands and the North. Also stock Vallejo and Citadel (Games Workshop).

.

I've definitely bough Humbrol from Boyes in Grantham in the past, but I've not been in there since the recent announcement to see if they still have it on sale. 

[Mike at C&M]

Not all out paints are sourced direct from Hornby, Humbrol paints are one of those products you can add on to orders from a number of different sources to bulk up an order.

 

Not all the sources we use to acquire Humbrol paints have informed us of the product withdrawal.

 

Therefore, it is possible that the supplier for Boyes (and other shops) have not informed them of the withdrawal.

 

The announcement about withdrawal has been shambolic - we had to ask Hornby/Humbrol for a copy of the letter concerning withdrawal. The information was not given to us voluntarily by them

[Wheatley]

As far as I can work out (which isn't very far) Meko was reclassified as a carcinogen in 2020 by the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) and banned from general sale to the public from 1st March 2022. At this point the UK was still applying the EU regs under the transition arrangements but was not part of the decision making process. 

 

Since then the HSE has replaced the ECHA as the UK competent authority but I suspect (opinion) that decisions made in 2020 have not been revisited or revoked. Meko is therefore subject to the same ban as in the EU but now under UK law. It is illegal to sell it but not to use stocks you already own. 

 

The reason it can still be sold to trade customers is that they come under health and safety at work legislation and can therefore be required to take additional precautions which private users can cheerfully ignore. As a 'hobby' user in the early 2000s there was nothing but my own common sense to stop me re-spraying my Land-Rover in an  unventilated garage and filling it and the adjoining house with enough cellulose thinners fumes to send a horse wappy,  so hobby use is not always trivial and an exemption for hobby use is not always sensible. You haven't been able to buy 2-pack isocyanate paint for home use for a long time but your local vehicle refinisher can.  I'm aware Humbrol only comes in very small tins but before 1st March there was nothing to stop you buying a 10 litre tin of meko- based enamel from another supplier and painting your caravan with it. 

 

(H&S 'professional' but not specifically a legal or chemical expert). 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Wheatley

[dpgibbons]

The date of the ban must have been known well in advance, so it's hard to understand why Humbrol gave no notice nor attempted a reformulation, and why we have heard nothing from other makers of hobby enamel paints.

[dpgibbons]

An enamels ban affecting Humbrol was being discussed as long ago as 2009 - see here. So they had plenty of warning.

 

And it seems replacing MEKO with something safer is readily done - eg here. So they had the means to avoid it.

 

So why the lack of action and the lack of notice?

[Shed Driver]

I think that this was known for some time Hobbycraft stopped selling Humbrol enamels sometime ago and now stock Revel.

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

 

So why the lack of action and the lack of notice?

 

Because it's Hornby?

[Gilbert]

2 hours ago, Shed Driver said:

I think that this was known for some time Hobbycraft stopped selling Humbrol enamels sometime ago and now stock Revel.

I was told that was due to reliability of supply rather than a safety issue....

Chris

[MikeB]

As somebody who worked on chemical classification, there really is no excuse for the suddenness of the withdrawal of these paints.  MEKO (2-butanone-oxime) is classified as carcinogenic category 1B, i.e. a substance which is presumed to be a human carcinogen based on evidence from animal studies.  This means that it cannot be supplied to consumers. The first formal proposals for such a classification in the EU were made in February 2016.  After various proposals, public consultations and expert reviews, this decision to classify as a carcinogen was published on 11 August 2020 and applies from  1 March 2022.  Since this new mandatory EU classification was adopted before 31 December 31 2020, the end of the Brexit transition period, it was carried over into GB legislation.  Hence the  new classification and ban on sale to the general public applies in both the EU and UK.

 

[ikcdab]

does any of this affect Mekpak - butanone - which sounds similar?

Ian

[RAF96]

See here - http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/common/documents/Public_Risk_Summary_MEKO.pdf

Presumably MEKO is a safer derivative of methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) which was a very nasty solvent and justifiably banned donkeys years ago.

We used MEK in the RAF in component parts cleaning baths, back in the day before PPE was mandatory. The fumes were ‘heady’ to say the least.

[MikeB]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

does any of this affect Mekpak - butanone - which sounds similar?

Ian

No.  butanone oxime (MEKO) and butanone (methyl ethyl ketone / MEK), are similar but different - like a Britannia and a standard class 5.  MEK is not classified as a likely human carcinogen, only as flammable, an eye irritant and likely to cause drowsiness or dizziness if inhaled.

[Steven B]

I emailed customerservices.uk@humbrol.com asking what was going on.

 

The reply back said that yes, they'd stopped selling the enamel range due to the now banned chemical and they would be re-introducing the range over the next few months although it would take some time to do all the colours.

 

There was no comment to the lack of information from Hornby/Humbrol or the question as to why some shops had stopped selling the range whilst others continued.

 

I do feel sorry for those retailers who've empted their shelves and have stock they apparently can't sell or return. Even more so when others have carried on selling the paints.

 

Steven B.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Steven B

[lothianlocoman]

www.timetunnelmodels.com is still selling humbrol enamels

[Mark Saunders]

Yesterday they were still available in Monk Bar Models and Boyes.

[Drifter]

19 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

The date of the ban must have been known well in advance, so it's hard to understand why Humbrol gave no notice nor attempted a reformulation, and why we have heard nothing from other makers of hobby enamel paints.

Revell have just announced that certain colours in their enamel range should be disposed of at a paint recycling centre. Batch numbers and dates are apparently mentioned. No compensation for retailers.

[Pete the Elaner]

10 hours ago, MikeB said:

As somebody who worked on chemical classification, there really is no excuse for the suddenness of the withdrawal of these paints.  MEKO (2-butanone-oxime) is classified as carcinogenic category 1B, i.e. a substance which is presumed to be a human carcinogen based on evidence from animal studies.  This means that it cannot be supplied to consumers. The first formal proposals for such a classification in the EU were made in February 2016.  After various proposals, public consultations and expert reviews, this decision to classify as a carcinogen was published on 11 August 2020 and applies from  1 March 2022.  Since this new mandatory EU classification was adopted before 31 December 31 2020, the end of the Brexit transition period, it was carried over into GB legislation.  Hence the  new classification and ban on sale to the general public applies in both the EU and UK.

 

 

You mean they would have known since 2016 that a change may have been necessary, then for certain since August 2020?

They could have changed their branding (for example to red tins because Revell is blue) then stopped sales of the older white-tinned stuff only on March 1st.

[Drifter]

The losers in all this are the retailers and wholesalers who have been buying paint from a company that would appear to have known. 
 

Turning around and only crediting retailers etc for what they bought in the last two months? 
 

Lost for suitable words.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Drifter
Spellcheck

[Pmorgancym]

On 08/04/2022 at 02:34, dpgibbons said:

An enamels ban affecting Humbrol was being discussed as long ago as 2009 - see here. So they had plenty of warning.

 

And it seems replacing MEKO with something safer is readily done - eg here. So they had the means to avoid it.

 

So why the lack of action and the lack of notice?

This is the dame.company that thought it could skirt things like licensing with the words 'Inspired by'

[MikeB]

14 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

You mean they would have known since 2016 that a change may have been necessary, then for certain since August 2020?

They could have changed their branding (for example to red tins because Revell is blue) then stopped sales of the older white-tinned stuff only on March 1st.

Yes, the whole idea is that changes in classification are only implemented a year or two after the decision is made, to allow time for manufacturers to make changes and old products to work their way through the supply chain.

To be fair to Hornby, as a model railway company they may not be an expert on chemical classification and labelling, but somebody at Humbrol or whoever formulates, buys the raw materials  and manufactures the paints should have been  aware of this.

[1andrew1]

12 hours ago, MikeB said:

Yes, the whole idea is that changes in classification are only implemented a year or two after the decision is made, to allow time for manufacturers to make changes and old products to work their way through the supply chain.

To be fair to Hornby, as a model railway company they may not be an expert on chemical classification and labelling, but somebody at Humbrol or whoever formulates, buys the raw materials  and manufactures the paints should have been  aware of this.

I don't know if they still are, but in 2012, Scale Model News reported " In London, Humbrol enamels and finishing products are now made by Rustins, a family business established back in 1924 that offered Hornby a winning combo of price, quality and speed."

https://www.scalemodelnews.com/2012/12/Hornby-brings-back-humbrol-paints-from.html#:~:text=The Hornby company’s model paint brand%2C Humbrol%2C known,after such operations went to China. US-UK story

In 2017 Rustins were still the manufacturer: https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/HUMBROL-ENAMEL-RANGE.pdf

 

[31A]

10 hours ago, 1andrew1 said:

I don't know if they still are, but in 2012, Scale Model News reported " In London, Humbrol enamels and finishing products are now made by Rustins, a family business established back in 1924 that offered Hornby a winning combo of price, quality and speed."

https://www.scalemodelnews.com/2012/12/Hornby-brings-back-humbrol-paints-from.html#:~:text=The Hornby company’s model paint brand%2C Humbrol%2C known,after such operations went to China. US-UK story

In 2017 Rustins were still the manufacturer: https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/HUMBROL-ENAMEL-RANGE.pdf

 

 

Well you'd think a company like that would know the ins and outs of the relevant regulations etc., they produce no end of paint type products & similar.

[Butler Henderson]

Knowing Hornby they probably ordered far too many a few years ago and Rustins have not actually made any recently. The sale of enamels will no doubt have dimished with the improved acrylic range.