C&L Finescale

[purplepiepete]

I for one expect a reasonable amount of time from payment for an order, which, by the way, was done by bank transfer for over £200, to receiving my items or, at the very least, be able to contact the company or be informed as to when I'm likely to receive my order instead of being left rather frustrated!

 

 

Posted from C&L Website homepage - maybe this (even with spelling and grammatical errors !) explains some of it ? However I can't help thinking that Phil could help himself here. The website has very good tracking facilities for orders which does not appear to work. I guess this happened in the transition from the previous owners and was disabled for some reason ? I can only assume that it's too costly to employ a web / e-commerce developer to investigate ? Or maybe he does not actually own the software i.e only has a 'right to use' / no IPR etc.

 

Please note due to the volume of orders at busy times the mail orders may suffer delay in being dipatched this can be caused by waiting for replacement stock were their is a significant lead time in the supply chain.

[Arthur38]

Posted from C&L Website homepage - maybe this (even with spelling and grammatical errors !) explains some of it ? However I can't help thinking that Phil could help himself here. The website has very good tracking facilities for orders which does not appear to work. I guess this happened in the transition from the previous owners and was disabled for some reason ? I can only assume that it's too costly to employ a web / e-commerce developer to investigate ? Or maybe he does not actually own the software i.e only has a 'right to use' / no IPR etc.

 

Please note due to the volume of orders at busy times the mail orders may suffer delay in being dipatched this can be caused by waiting for replacement stock were their is a significant lead time in the supply chain.

Quick update, just spoken to Phil at length, he apologised for not being able to get a hold of, explained about shortage of stock etc. he's going to send me some of my order with the rest to follow as soon as he receives it, September lol

[Horsetan]

....what would we do if the sole source of supply of track parts was to disappear.

 

Just a thought.

 

Well, there might be a return to traditional rivet-on-ply track-building - the EMGS and S4 Society still have the appropriate components and gauges available. And you've still got etched chairs available from Masokits and others, so you can still build something to run on....

[martin_wynne]

Quick update, just spoken to Phil at length, he apologised for not being able to get a hold of, explained about shortage of stock etc. he's going to send me some of my order with the rest to follow as soon as he receives it, September lol

 

This of course explains the preference for shows over mail order. At a show you take and sell what you've got, and not what you haven't got. Folks can't buy it, demand it, argue about it, or pay for it. It just ain't there, bad luck. Try again at the next show.

 

Martin.

[Horsetan]

.....Try again at the next show.

 

...assuming of course there is a next show - pace Coopercraft *kof*

[Sheffield]

While not knowing what is happening to an order is a frustration, I still think we should be grateful that Phil has taken on the C&L range, and is trying to make something of it. As has already been said more than once, if the range had disappeared it would have caused a problem. Model railway parts are hardly essential in the great scheme of life, and having to wait is better than not getting the parts at all.

[Vistisen]

Hi Stephen,

 

If it's your business the world is what you choose it to be. See: http://www.markits.com/ordering.html

 

It's then up to others to decide whether to be a customer or not.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Your argument sounds reasonable. "I'm the only supplier, so it's up to me to decide what works best for me" unless it's a nationalized industry abusing a monopoly, or Microsoft deciding to upgrade your Windows 7 for you, then suddenly it's not alright!. My contention is that what is best for the customer IS best for a business that wants to survive. Of course all the while C&L was the only place to get essential items, then you are right I can only like it or leave it. That's why it is good for US the customers that Exactoscale and CL are separating.

[hayfield]

Posted from C&L Website homepage - maybe this (even with spelling and grammatical errors !) explains some of it ? However I can't help thinking that Phil could help himself here. The website has very good tracking facilities for orders which does not appear to work. I guess this happened in the transition from the previous owners and was disabled for some reason ? I can only assume that it's too costly to employ a web / e-commerce developer to investigate ? Or maybe he does not actually own the software i.e only has a 'right to use' / no IPR etc.

 

Please note due to the volume of orders at busy times the mail orders may suffer delay in being dipatched this can be caused by waiting for replacement stock were their is a significant lead time in the supply chain.

 

 

Phil wants his own website and is trying to find a reliable person who does not charge a kings ransom, the old site is not really supported now by the previous owner and will not be improved

 

I think Phil in his own mind wants to send out complete orders, whilst some modellers prefer to having what's available now with the rest to follow. Whilst Phil ran the small C&L stand for some time he has not really run a retail business before where he has to do everything, rather than pick up the phone and request stock.

 

Its a steep learning curve and hopefully he will get there before too long. 

 

As I said before there are quite a few traders who stopped reading RMweb and I guess those waiting for their orders would prefer he spends his time fulfilling orders, with no show for 10 days he has a bit of time to catch up on things and answer the phone.

 

Thankfully the situation is completely different from the said Mr Dunn.

 

Ivon, as for ply and rivet and etched chairs, I eagerly await to see some output from your good self

 

Talking of etched parts, do Masokits go to shows?

[PenrithBeacon]

I recently wanted some stuff at a show as did a number of others. He kept us all waiting while he gossiped with a mate!

[Stanley Melrose]

I recently wanted some stuff at a show as did a number of others. He kept us all waiting while he gossiped with a mate!

 

Golly gosh, this chap has friends?

 

I don't believe it . . . .

 

Stan

 

PS Many shows/exhibitions are social occasions as well as business opportunities - at least they are for me.

[Great Western]

While not knowing what is happening to an order is a frustration, I still think we should be grateful that Phil has taken on the C&L range, and is trying to make something of it. As has already been said more than once, if the range had disappeared it would have caused a problem. Model railway parts are hardly essential in the great scheme of life, and having to wait is better than not getting the parts at all.

No, but when you have £200 in someone else’s bank account it does become an issue - that’s my issue, I handed over my hard earned money in good faith at no point when I paid did he say I’d be waiting six plus weeks. At no point since I’ve paid has be had the courtesy contact me to advise of a extended period for delivery - either of these would have tamed me.

 

I can post this message now, and anyone around the world can see it in a time it takes to click a mouse.

Communication is king, 30 minutes to send out a standard email to all those effected buys goodwill time and alllows him to crack on clearing the backlog not answering the phone to frustrated and worried customers.

Not once did he offer an apology for waiting so long.

[martin_wynne]

No, but when you have £200 in someone else’s bank account it does become an issue

 

I'm puzzled how your money got there without any communication with the recipient?

 

If you send a cheque or provide card details, most reputable mail order traders don't cash the cheque or collect funds from the card until the order is ready for despatch. Unless agreed otherwise with the customer.

 

Martin.

[purplepiepete]

I'm puzzled how your money got there without any communication with the recipient?

 

If you send a cheque or provide card details, most reputable mail order traders don't cash the cheque or collect funds from the card until the order is ready for despatch. Unless agreed otherwise with the customer.

 

Martin.

 

I assume that, like my own orders, it was paid by bank transfer which seems to be Phil's preferred method i.e no charges and it helps his cashflow :-) 

[Great Western]

I'm puzzled how your money got there without any communication with the recipient?

 

If you send a cheque or provide card details, most reputable mail order traders don't cash the cheque or collect funds from the card until the order is ready for despatch. Unless agreed otherwise with the customer.

 

Martin.

Order placed via the website, order confirmation automatically received with bank account details in order to pay.

Payment made to account stated...wait...wait...wait..wait...six weeks later I manage to make contact.

 

No mystery, that’s how to works, no confirmation of payment either - that was confirmed he’d got it the day of order when I spoke to him in week six post order.

[Great Western]

I assume that, like my own orders, it was paid by bank transfer which seems to be Phil's preferred method i.e no charges and it helps his cashflow :-)

 

It also removes any real come back should it all go wrong, you only get your money back if the seller agrees to, if they don’t tough.

[Arthur38]

I'm puzzled how your money got there without any communication with the recipient?

 

If you send a cheque or provide card details, most reputable mail order traders don't cash the cheque or collect funds from the card until the order is ready for despatch. Unless agreed otherwise with the customer.

 

Martin.

Payment by bank transfer only and orders will not be processed until payment is received with no confirmation of receipt only what you can see via bank statement or online banking!

[Pteremy]

I also paid for my order (in November 2017) by bank transfer. I don't normally do that, but made an exception in this case because I have bought before (at Scaleforum) and knew (I thought) that i was dealing with a business with a positive reputation. I was in no hurry - and I think I was aware of possible delay, because I recognise that niche products are sometimes like that (as with Ultrascale for example). I am still in no hurry - but my order has to be in the C&L system somewhere, not least the bank records and hence formal accounts - and yet my regular requests for updates are met with silence. If what I ordered is 'out of stock' it would be nice to know. In fact, any sort of communication - other than the automated responses at the time of purchase - would be nice.

 

I know that some businesses are just 'hobby businesses', with no ambition to grow in the way we might expect. But if so they should present themselves in those terms and tailor their activities accordingly. So just going to shows, selling to people in the flesh, would be fine by me. But don't provide a website that appears to provide potential customers with an alternative. And certainly don't take their money if meeting the demand is problematic. The fact that a product may be regarded as 'important' to the modelling community is no excuse for not being honest with that community about how potential demand is going to be met. Goodwill is not infinite. 

[Mallard60022]

Golly gosh, this chap has friends?

 

I don't believe it . . . .

 

Stan

 

PS Many shows/exhibitions are social occasions as well as business opportunities - at least they are for me.

Yes, they are at the appropriate times, however if I had done that (chat and not appear to see waiting customers) at a show, with customers waiting, then my 'boss' at the time would have told me to go away in no uncertain terms and I would not have worked with him again I'm sure.

Phil.

[The Ghost of IKB]

Sadly whatever the rights and wrongs and ins and outs of what's going on, all this negativity makes me for one consider going back to oo on my next layout, especially considering Pecos track is currently improving in its appearance, effectively making the case for all the extra work, time and expense involved in building em gauge seem harder to justify.

I am currently ( but for who knows how long) committed to em, but if I were new to all of this right now, i wouldn't even consider straying from oo based on the negative experiences on here of people attempting to deal with the new owner of c &l.

A great shame if he doesn't get his act together, future custom will be lost to peco's bullhead track. After all it's quicker cheaper and easily/readily available.

[The Ghost of IKB]

And while I'm busy moaning about this..... if only peco would launch their own range of em and p4 components, my hobby could get back to being somewhat more stress free

[The Ghost of IKB]

And their communication isn't peppered with grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.

 

Rant over.

[hayfield]

I recently wanted some stuff at a show as did a number of others. He kept us all waiting while he gossiped with a mate!

 

 

Sometimes what seems to be a mate is a lonely customer, sometimes its very difficult to stop the conversation. I think it is a rarity as I help Phil out quite often there are a couple of friends who pop along to say hello, usually phil stops chatting and gets on selling. However when I am not there who knows what he gets up to. Or was it me chatting ??

 

I would think if you are on your own sometimes a friendly chat is sometimes welcome. Having said that I do get annoyed when I am in a queue and the shop assistant is chatting away, though sometimes earwigging on a specialist stand can be quite informative

[The Ghost of IKB]

Sometimes what seems to be a mate is a lonely customer, sometimes its very difficult to stop the conversation.

Nonsense, you just say, "hang on there for just a second, let me serve this customer"

BASIC CUSTOMER SERVICE really.

[hayfield]

And while I'm busy moaning about this..... if only peco would launch their own range of em and p4 components, my hobby could get back to being somewhat more stress free

 

 

They have their own range well hidden both in 4 and 7 mm scale, Only Pandrol and slide chair fittings as well as turnout timbers plus very fine clips with concrete sleepers, in 7 mm Bullhead in code 125 and Flatbottom in code 143

[hayfield]

Nonsense, you just say, "hang on there for just a second, let me serve this customer"

BASIC CUSTOMER SERVICE really.

 

 

That's sometimes easier to say than do, and believe me if I can I do, its just general politeness. Now for genuine customers I would bend over backwards, but if someone shouted at me, I would and have in the past told them where to go. I do agree with you, customer service goes a long way and do my best,

 

On the other hand I have also learnt how to deal with rude customers, and its always accompanied with a smile