Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[robmcg]

Certainly it's a very good book, i think it must rank second behind the Wild Swan LMS Locomotive Profile books on the Duchesses and the Princesses.

 

Shame to hear your copy isn't perfect Rob, mine that arrived in Australia just after publication is perfect, though i do know they had issues with the binding that caused a delay in publication.

 

It isn't very bad, and I certainly forget such trivial issues when reading it.  I guess there are matters of preference about style, too. In this respect I rather like the Irwell book on the Coronations by Alan C Baker, also O S Nock's earlier pre-ISBN books in particular, but these have less detail. 

 

I'm wondering if the Wild Swan books have more than the new RCTS book, or different style?

[sirwilliamfrs]

The Wild Swan books on the Coronations are a two-part work, one a highly detailed description of their design, liveries and all the minutiae, the other an excellent photographic album and are what I would consider the definitive work on the class. The RCTS book is equally entertaining, has some different angles on the history and work of the class and of course includes the Princess Royal class and 6202. However, as would be expected, some information is duplicated in the later publication. 

 

 

It isn't very bad, and I certainly forget such trivial issues when reading it.  I guess there are matters of preference about style, too. In this respect I rather like the Irwell book on the Coronations by Alan C Baker, also O S Nock's earlier pre-ISBN books in particular, but these have less detail. 

 

I'm wondering if the Wild Swan books have more than the new RCTS book, or different style?

Edited November 30, 2017 by sirwilliamfrs

[brittannia]

Mine arrived late morning, cardboard box had slight crumple marks - alarm bells ringing! Outer Hornby packaging fine but clear plastic packaging shattered, loco completely dead also noticed whistle was missing so packed it back up to send back. Packaging from Locomotion very poor, just a single bit of bubble wrap so very loose in the cardboard box. Not happy!

It would appear in my experience most UK shops send out their goods in this fashion, a long way adrift of the Modelshoppe Lippe in Germany who pack a single Loco in a large box with plenty of air filled plastic packaging plus the loco box is wrapped with a considerable amount of wrapping, The box also has a distinct fragile stickerplus , they even give you packet of haribo all for 3.90 euros. signed and insured. UK shops certainly could learn from them.

[trevor7598]

When it comes to good packaging to combat the rigours of courier or Parcelforce transit,

I have found that Hattons and Derails do a pretty good job. My Sir William arrived in perfect condition.

[ikks]

When it comes to good packaging to combat the rigours of courier or Parcelforce transit,

I have found that Hattons and Derails do a pretty good job. My Sir William arrived in perfect condition.

Not like some other northern retailer............rudimentary packaging in a voyage to OZ, I ended up with basically a kit................tested before sent!!...........I don't think so!!!!!!!!!

Mike

[MikeParkin65]

Rails normally good but my 46256 wasn't packed with the usual depth of shredded paper. The model arrived damaged (a write off by my standards) though I suspect the damage occurred before it was packed by Rails.

 

I know its not an option for everyone but I have now decided my default buying method will be with 'local' (nearest is 20 miles away) dealers and from the 3 in that category there is one that stands out for having reasonable prices (even on hot sellers) and provides a consistently good customer experience (huge stock, happy to test things, answers email's promptly etc).  

 

Models are getting both too delicate and too expensive to entrust to the vagaries of the parcel delivery companies.  

[cctransuk]

Rails normally good but my 46256 wasn't packed with the usual depth of shredded paper. The model arrived damaged (a write off by my standards) though I suspect the damage occurred before it was packed by Rails.

 

I know its not an option for everyone but I have now decided my default buying method will be with 'local' (nearest is 20 miles away) dealers and from the 3 in that category there is one that stands out for having reasonable prices (even on hot sellers) and provides a consistently good customer experience (huge stock, happy to test things, answers email's promptly etc).  

 

Models are getting both too delicate and too expensive to entrust to the vagaries of the parcel delivery companies.  

 

An admirable policy - but a bit of a gamble!

 

There are regular reports of smaller retailers receiving only a fraction of their pre-orders, whereas the 'big boys' seem to get all the ask for.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Guest Q663389]

When it comes to good packaging to combat the rigours of courier or Parcelforce transit,

I have found that Hattons and Derails do a pretty good job. My Sir William arrived in perfect condition.

Mine arrived in Canada in perfect condition. Have yet to run it. Hattons to an excellent job on packing.

[MikeParkin65]

An admirable policy - but a bit of a gamble!

 

There are regular reports of smaller retailers receiving only a fraction of their pre-orders, whereas the 'big boys' seem to get all the ask for.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I know. I suppose plan B is stick with Plan A but also have one pre ordered with a 'box shifter'. In the event i end up with two i could  put the surplus model on ebay, double my money and be accused of being a profiteer

Edited November 30, 2017 by MikeParkin65

[Ian Hargrave]

If some retailers can manage to look and test before passing it to the carrier then so could others.It is surely a matter of prioritising customer satisfaction when to be frank there is a known problem ATM with Hornby on delivery...witness two recorded instances with the new Duchess and disasters with the14XX which forced Dan at Derails to return to his consignment whence they came.

 

Let's be realistic..not every one is like Dan and some are not in a postion to be in any case.But some could and should do a whole lot better. But it's easy to scapegoat the packaging and the carrier,isn't it ? Before so doing,it is worth noting that what cradles our precious cargo had to withstand theg rigours of a journey from the other side of the world.The Chinese authorities apparently stipulate that they are designed to do just that.You have read of two experiences with the new Duchesses which were damaged and had to be returned.In both instances,the outer sleeve of the packaging was intact.This indicates that as has been suggested the damage was sustained before the package left the factory gates.i.e someone had slipped their mistake into the cradle hoping that it wouldn't be noticed

 

Obviously,I' m lucky but I cannot remember receiving a parcel from any UK retailer,large or small that has contained a model that can clearly be identified as having been damaged by any carrier or by Royal Mail.....but that is only my experience and I fully,acknowledge

that others are not as fortunate.If I offend their sensibilities ,I apologise.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Ian Hargrave

[JSpencer]

You have read of two experiences with the new Duchesses which were damaged and had to be returned.In both instances,the outer sleeve of the packaging was intact.This indicates that as has been suggested the damage was sustained before the package left the factory gates.i.e someone had slipped their mistake into the cradle hoping that it wouldn't be noticed

 

 

Not always. These locos are quite heavy, if you throw the model in the parcel hard enough, even though the outer sleeves survive intact, the weight of the loco stills needs to come an abrupt stop. The weight is suddenly loaded onto the ice cube box. Some parts will deflect the loco (like where the wheels meet, and that would be upwards in relation to the loco if it is being hit from the front).

 

Everything crunches on the weekest spot. The packaging is vacuum formed and will be thinner in parts compared to others, so it will break there first and/or on the weakest spot on the model itself. once it is free to move, other delicate items can be snapped off.

Shock can cause minor parts to fly off too.

 

During Normandy, Churchills were able to eventually knock out Jadgpanthers with repeated hits. None penetrated, it was just the shock waves that eventually caused little things, like optics, electrical circuits, to give way. An aerial bombardment left much of a Tiger II battalion intact. However they quickly found they could not hit anything they shot at as all the delicate fire control equipment had become misaligned.

Edited November 30, 2017 by JSpencer

[MikeParkin65]

The review sample in the January BRM has the same broken body to chassis lug as mine and also the wobbly rear driver. It also had the piston rod displaced from the slidebars. Its a moot point where this damage occurs but the product not arriving in one working piece at the customer should be setting alarm bells ringing at Hornby.

[Ian Hargrave]

The review sample in the January BRM has the same broken body to chassis lug as mine and also the wobbly rear driver. It also had the piston rod displaced from the slidebars. Its a moot point where this damage occurs but the product not arriving in one working piece at the customer should be setting alarm bells ringing at Hornby.

 

Yes well we've heard this many times over the last decade..."The Bells,The Bells ..!".Trouble is there's a corporate deafness on the subject as those of you who have attempted to raise the matter with the lately reinvented Mr.Kohler will attest."QC problem ?   What problem ?". What now needs to be underscored is that the world has moved on since then and we are talking not of £80 locos but £180.In these economic circumstances lapses in such matters becomes somewhat distasteful.Would that the rest of Hornby matched its R&D department in quality

[Ian Hargrave]

Not always. These locos are quite heavy, if you throw the model in the parcel hard enough, even though the outer sleeves survive intact, the weight of the loco stills needs to come an abrupt stop. The weight is suddenly loaded onto the ice cube box. Some parts will deflect the loco (like where the wheels meet, and that would be upwards in relation to the loco if it is being hit from the front).

 

Everything crunches on the weekest spot. The packaging is vacuum formed and will be thinner in parts compared to others, so it will break there first and/or on the weakest spot on the model itself. once it is free to move, other delicate items can be snapped off.

Shock can cause minor parts to fly off too.

 

During Normandy, Churchills were able to eventually knock out Jadgpanthers with repeated hits. None penetrated, it was just the shock waves that eventually caused little things, like optics, electrical circuits, to give way. An aerial bombardment left much of a Tiger II battalion intact. However they quickly found they could not hit anything they shot at as all the delicate fire control equipment had become misaligned.

 

 

As maybe.Sorry that might be applicable in the odd case but as a whole I remain unconvinced.I believe the damage is sustained well before it reaches our retailers.

[adb968008]

It would appear in my experience most UK shops send out their goods in this fashion, a long way adrift of the Modelshoppe Lippe in Germany who pack a single Loco in a large box with plenty of air filled plastic packaging plus the loco box is wrapped with a considerable amount of wrapping, The box also has a distinct fragile stickerplus , they even give you packet of haribo all for 3.90 euros. signed and insured. UK shops certainly could learn from them.

Agreed, especially the haribo, however I suspect there costs are lower and there margins are higher than in the UK.

[darren01]

£225 at Rails early on Saturday - had gone by my 2nd circuit at lunchtime. Only one I saw but I wasnt looking that hard

Hornby website price £189.99, I have noticed this with Rails putting up the price above RRP. They did this with the H class at £135.99 and the Hornby price on their site £119.99.

This seem IMO that they are just cashing in on short runs, big demand, I pay any price to have it.

Putting me off them a bit. 

If this is right and they where asking £225.00 for none sound we have broke the £200.barrier.

Edited November 30, 2017 by darren01

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby Dublo used to test all their model locomotives before they went out - a job I would have liked to do. There was a shortage of supply when the Hornby Dublo 'Duchess of Atholl' came out and the model was very expensive. The photographs show a comparison between a Hornby Dublo EDL 2 'Duchess of Atholl' dating from 1949 - 1951 and the new Hornby model. My childhood friend had a 'Duchess of Atholl' train set and I thought the livery looked a bit old fashioned compared with the green 'Duchess of Montrose' in the 1955 catalogue just after Hornby Dublo nationalised their model trains. I like the maroon livery now.

 

The pictures of the coaches also show a comparison between the Hornby Dublo tinplate Stanier LMS coaches and the new Hornby coaches. In the 1950s the Hornby Dublo Stanier coaches with their flush glazing and corridor partiions seemed like the last word compared with their LNER coaches with tinplate windows and the Tri-ang plastic LMS coaches. It was only after Palitoy introduced their Stanier coaches and Hornby followed that the Hornby Dublo coaches looked dated when put alongside the later coaches.

[adb968008]

Took me a while to, but here’s my plethora of Duchesses.

 

Then I brought the previous one to the party..

 

 

When you look at the previous release and the latest side by side, there’s not a lot in it, I reckon a coat of varnish would bring it up to standard.

[robmcg]

The review sample in the January BRM has the same broken body to chassis lug as mine and also the wobbly rear driver. It also had the piston rod displaced from the slidebars. Its a moot point where this damage occurs but the product not arriving in one working piece at the customer should be setting alarm bells ringing at Hornby.

 

This is exactly what was wrong with my first Sir William, although it did not have a wobbly rear driver, it had a displaced piston rod from slidebars.

 

Rails gave me a credit and I bought their 46229 LMS black instead, and bought a 46256 from AJM, realising they were becoming rare (this was about three weeks ago), and both are ok. AJM sold their last one a day after mine.

 

Here is the faulty slidebar assembly as received.

 

 

I ran the model without realising (having already photographed it, unaware of the slidebar) and this happened

 

 

I bent it back and got it ok, and it ran ok, but the chassis/body lug was still broken and there were oil marks on the paint, and Rails gave a refund.

 

 

Ironically the replacement 46256 from AJM was a good runner an unmarked but not quite as quiet as the damaged one.

 

They do seem to vary slightly, as has always been the case with RTR .

 

Retailers have been obliging in all cases, so no problems there.

[JSpencer]

As maybe.Sorry that might be applicable in the odd case but as a whole I remain unconvinced.I believe the damage is sustained well before it reaches our retailers.

 

I don't disagree with that. It is also possible that someone having boxed a 1000 of these things may have felt a little nervous towards the end!

[t-b-g]

I had my first experience of a new RTR model for several years when a friend got hold of one.

 

It looked fine and we ran it for a few minutes then when it went round a curve (over 4' radius so not tight) the sideplay on the leading wheel caused the crankpin to bind on the connecting rod, leaving the valve gear in a similar state to the one photographed above. When I tried to untangle it, very gently, the connecting rod small end became separated from the crosshead.

 

I stripped the valve gear and cylinders off the loco and found that the crosshead has a pin on the back and the connecting rod is attached by this pin being hit on the back with a pointed object as if it were a rivet.

 

Luckily, a squeeze with pliers over the front of the crosshead and the pin opened the latter out enough to secure the connecting rod but still allowing a bit of movement.

 

I have a fair degree of experience of assembling valve gear and suchlike but without having somebody with that sort of knowledge, it would have been going back.

 

The connecting rod, as originally assembled, wasn't quite straight, so once that was sorted out the crankpin now misses the rod and she is a runner but it was a near thing. 

[Martin_R]

It would appear in my experience most UK shops send out their goods in this fashion, a long way adrift of the Modelshoppe Lippe in Germany who pack a single Loco in a large box with plenty of air filled plastic packaging plus the loco box is wrapped with a considerable amount of wrapping, The box also has a distinct fragile stickerplus , they even give you packet of haribo all for 3.90 euros. signed and insured. UK shops certainly could learn from them.

I have to say that my all previous purchases from Locomotion, Hattons, Rails, Kernow and HMC have arrived in perfect condition thanks to these retailers using plenty of shock absorbing packaging between the outer box and the model box. There are many types used in any combination, airbags, bubble wrap, polystyrene crumbs, shredded paper BUT if the model in its own box is not in direct contact packaging able to absorb shocks in any axis then damage can and will still happen.

 

By far the best manufacturers packaging I have seen was the Rapido APT-E - I just hope the Stirling Single packaging is to at least the same standard.

[PanzerJohn]

I examined one at a Toy Fair a couple of weeks,spotted a small nick/gouge on the left cylinder.Dealer not happy, although he said he'd get a refund from Hornby on returning it there were none left to replace it so he'd loose the profit on the sale. He said it was a fairly common thing with Hornby these days.

[Brocp]

Is it just me or does the plastic seem and feel "softer" on the new Duchess compared with the old one? This one seems to be a lot more flexiable etc than the older tooling when working on it.

[vitalspark]

I had my first experience of a new RTR model for several years when a friend got hold of one.

 

It looked fine and we ran it for a few minutes then when it went round a curve (over 4' radius so not tight) the sideplay on the leading wheel caused the crankpin to bind on the connecting rod, leaving the valve gear in a similar state to the one photographed above. When I tried to untangle it, very gently, the connecting rod small end became separated from the crosshead.

 

I stripped the valve gear and cylinders off the loco and found that the crosshead has a pin on the back and the connecting rod is attached by this pin being hit on the back with a pointed object as if it were a rivet.

 

Luckily, a squeeze with pliers over the front of the crosshead and the pin opened the latter out enough to secure the connecting rod but still allowing a bit of movement.

 

I have a fair degree of experience of assembling valve gear and suchlike but without having somebody with that sort of knowledge, it would have been going back.

 

The connecting rod, as originally assembled, wasn't quite straight, so once that was sorted out the crankpin now misses the rod and she is a runner but it was a near thing. 

 

 

I bet it was a Hornby Black 5!

 

I have given up with the valve gear on these and stuffed them in a drawer until I get round to a decent set of etched.