Peterborough North

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert,

 

I have to agree with Coachman that for 1958 the EE Type4 is far too dirty..........and dare I say the Gateshead A4 is too clean!

 

Great images as always and I particularly like your Huddersfield Town, top choice sir!

 

Regards,

 

Andy.

Actually my memory tells me that the Type 4's were not kept clean. I can recall even as a 13 year old being surprised that no-one seemed concerned about making these supposed symbols of modernisation look presentable, and before they were many months old they were in a disgusting state. They were initially shedded at Hornsey rather than Top Shed, so that may have had something to do with it. The A4 is not as bad as some of Gateshead's were, but if you put it next to one of my Top Shed ones the difference would be very noticeable.

[Mallard60022]

Who would want to clean a new fangled box thing when they had all those lovely Pacifics to work on? Agreed, the EE 4s were mucky until the 'management' noticed!

Quack.

P.S. The situation of Gateshead loco's being filthy is true, however I must stand up for those brave lads of the Tyne. They did clean their machines, but by the time they reached Central station they were covered in clag due to the lovely atmospheric conditions over the fair City at that time (what's the date?)  

Edited April 1, 2013 by Mallard60022

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry about the picture quality (I were but a lad and it was going fast and the camera was of its time) but here we see D202 passing Riccall in the summer of 1958 - and it is positively shiny sir!  The name of the train betrays itself of course, and if it doesn't show straight away thepic should enlarge a bit when you click on it.

 

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

Some days are better than others, and some are outstanding. Today falls into the latter category, as my visitor was  Dave Shakespeare. He's looking remarkably well, though a little short of hair, but that has not spoiled his rugged good looks. He brought with him the track plan of the station of his new layout, which looks very good and gives ample scope for another good dose of Yorkshire grit and grime. The man himself is certainly not short of grit of a different kind, and deals with all that is thrown at him without complaint and always with a smile.

 

A lovely day, just like old times which I feared we would never share again. He doesn't want to tempt fate, but my bets are on that new layout being completed, and plenty more time to put the world to rights and watch trains go by.

[Mallard60022]

Excellent.

P

[New Haven Neil]

You can't ask for more.  One of the best things I find in this hobby is sharing with friends - the outdoor line certainly provides ample opportunity for this.

[CUTLER2579]

Gilbert,

I can just imagine what Dave  thinks of a Norfolk serving Police Officer claiming  for tripping over a Kerb whilst on duty. Probably critical of her Solicitors.   .

[tetleys]

Gilbert,

I can just imagine what Dave  thinks of a Norfolk serving Police Officer claiming  for tripping over a Kerb whilst on duty. Probably critical of her Solicitors.   .

I've put my foot in it far too often in the past but although my lack of political correctness and refusal to admire the king's new clothes when I knew he was starkers cost me a few promotions as a copper it has equipped me well for my current battle against what others saw as a lost cause. I could see the writing on the wall way back in the late 1980's early 90's where over compensated Political correctness in the Police Service has given us a litigation culture, I think Norfolk Chief's comments on national news summed it up, most coppers join for a bit of risk and excitement as do most front line professions unfortunately a small minority see opportunities to litigate, don't blame solicitors it's the Judges who should cry 'enough'.

 

But on to more important issues, Gilbert's bacon butty wagon continues to serve good wholesome food and incentive enough should it be required to make the journey to Peterborough North, it's been three months since my last visit and I'm pleased to report that Peter Leyland's latest buildings continue to add that little extra to a developing station frontage. The Type 4 diesel loco that has been the subject of debate looks really well in it's weathered condition and I'd be happy to run it or similar on my new layout.

 

Gilbert's cassette system will work really well and come the better weather I look forward to building several more at the Ancaster 'Plant' unfortunately by adding even more trains, he'll want to photograph them and 'burden' us with even more images on RMWeb, will we ever get time to start our own projects?

 

Begger! I've cracked a nail on this damn lap top, anybody know of a good solicitor?

 

Traumatised and suffering of Ancaster.

[James]

Sorry about the picture quality (I were but a lad and it was going fast and the camera was of its time) but here we see D202 passing Riccall in the summer of 1958 - and it is positively shiny sir!  The name of the train betrays itself of course, and if it doesn't show straight away thepic should enlarge a bit when you click on it.

 

D202 on the down talisman at riccall 1958.jpg

Mike you've just made the decision as to which of the pilot scheme locos I'll be modelling!

[Mallard60022]

Nice one Dave.

I bow to superior ducks in the case for clean or mucky class 4s; I know nothing.

Whilst on the subject, can I be compensated? I would prefer full compensation. OK I'm happy with a Sharman chassis.

Quack 

[James]

 

Actually my memory tells me that the Type 4's were not kept clean. I can recall even as a 13 year old being surprised that no-one seemed concerned about making these supposed symbols of modernisation look presentable, and before they were many months old they were in a disgusting state.

Relying on memory for weathering can sometimes distort things. Sometimes I see a photo of a steam loco in the fifites and think it looks clean-ish but can see the dirt clearly yet my Dad will comment that they'd have regarded that as being clean!

 

Similarly with early diesels, they did weather differently from diesels post steam. One thing though is normally that there's a sheen beneath the dirt (only when absolutely filthy did the sheen disappear, but that seems to be the extreme early on).

 

D275 passing Brough West SB (which would have been a lovely job - no level crossing for a start!) - the loco is dirty, the roof is filthy and the green is clearly discoloured in places but look and you can see a definate sheen beneath the dirt, coming through.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8135786107/

 

At Hull D201 in 1959 - looks quite presentable. Signs of use and note how the dirt above the cantrail grilles is left undisturbed by the washing plant!

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3722380547/

 

And an appropirate location too. Road dirt has begun to creep up the bodysides but the loco is well turned out and you can even seen a proper shine at cantrail level.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andersley_images/6065434168/in/faves-62338634@N06/

 

The loco in my signature is abosolutely filthy, but the weathering is applied over a gloss(yes, gloss) top coat. To really capture diesels and how the weather takes, I think, often more careful observation than for steam. As the diesel age progressed and locos went longer between repaints then you find that paint finishes naturally dulled which can lead to all sorts of different effects. My own 1992 period brings all sorts of contrasts between locos and their states, which really is all part of the appeal for me!

[great northern]

Gilbert,

I can just imagine what Dave  thinks of a Norfolk serving Police Officer claiming  for tripping over a Kerb whilst on duty. Probably critical of her Solicitors.   .

Critical of Solicitors? Surely not.

[great northern]

Mike you've just made the decision as to which of the pilot scheme locos I'll be modelling!

I would be a bit surprised if it was D202 actually, as that was one of the batch that went straight to the GE section when built. I suppose it may have worked on the ECML once or twice after delivery, but I think one of the GN batch (D201/6/7/8/9) would be more likely.

[James]

I would be a bit surprised if it was D202 actually, as that was one of the batch that went straight to the GE section when built. I suppose it may have worked on the ECML once or twice after delivery, but I think one of the GN batch (D201/6/7/8/9) would be more likely.

I know where the first ones went - it won't be the first pilot scheme one I've done. My dad has a model of D209 as that was the first one he ever saw.

 

One day you may see the significance of my comment though!

[The Stationmaster]

I would be a bit surprised if it was D202 actually, as that was one of the batch that went straight to the GE section when built. I suppose it may have worked on the ECML once or twice after delivery, but I think one of the GN batch (D201/6/7/8/9) would be more likely.

My contemporaneous note says D202 but I might have been far busier taking the pic than copping the number.  And I do have an inkling that they might have gone to Doncaster for acceptance hence the possibility of a run on the ECML.

 

Incidentally I have finally had a chance to chat with an old friend about that indicator at the north end of the Up Platform - at one time he was a Fireman at Top Shed and worked to Newcastle as well as regular trips to New England and he later became Yard Master at New England, and alas he hasn't got a clue what it was!

[BMacdermott]

Hello Gilbert

 

This is my first posting to your pages, although I have been following your progress for a long time. What a layout!

 

Thank you for the posting you sent to MREmag about the way I operate my own layout - much appreciated.

 

I have some related railway documents that might be of interest to you (with my compliments). I'm afraid I don't know how to 'PM' you. However, if you would like to email me as below, that would be great.

 

Regards and many thanks to you and all the contributors who are making these pages so good.

 

Brian Macdermott

 

brianmacdermott(at)hotmail(dot)com

[great northern]

I know where the first ones went - it won't be the first pilot scheme one I've done. My dad has a model of D209 as that was the first one he ever saw.

 

One day you may see the significance of my comment though!

Hi James, and thanks for those photos. The one of D209 is interesting, as the Master Cutler was not booked to stop at PN, but it looks as though it has. I acquired mine as a TMC limited edition some years ago,being the only way I could get one, and it came weathered, so that is how it has remained. It would actually have been brand new in September '58, so probably should be pristine. I'm eyeing up the new sound loco, but the price is a bit eye watering. Maybe if I sell my Golden Age A4.........

 

I've been trying to remember if it was 1958 or 1959 when on one of my rare trips to PN three Type 4's came through on Down trains in quick succession, and all were absolutely filthy, with road dirt so encrusted on the sides that it actually looked as though it was inches deep. Probably '59 I think. In contrast York, whose steam locos were generally filthy, kept D251 which always worked the York- Yarmouth as far as Lincoln in '59, in very nice condition.

[great northern]

My contemporaneous note says D202 but I might have been far busier taking the pic than copping the number.  And I do have an inkling that they might have gone to Doncaster for acceptance hence the possibility of a run on the ECML.

 

Incidentally I have finally had a chance to chat with an old friend about that indicator at the north end of the Up Platform - at one time he was a Fireman at Top Shed and worked to Newcastle as well as regular trips to New England and he later became Yard Master at New England, and alas he hasn't got a clue what it was!

They certainly did go to Doncaster for acceptance Mike, though I don't remember seeing any of them, but I agree they may have made the odd foray up North before going to East Anglia.

 

Thanks for the efforts re the mystery "signal", or whatever it may have been. I fear I shall never get the answer to that one.

[James]

Hi James, and thanks for those photos.

My pleasure

The one of D209 is interesting, as the Master Cutler was not booked to stop at PN, but it looks as though it has. I acquired mine as a TMC limited edition some years ago,being the only way I could get one, and it came weathered, so that is how it has remained. It would actually have been brand new in September '58, so probably should be pristine. I'm eyeing up the new sound loco, but the price is a bit eye watering. Maybe if I sell my Golden Age A4.........

Personally (and I know my methods are sometimes long winded and not to everyone's taste!) I'd consider aquiring a cheap Lima body and building a Lima and Bachmann hybrid body mounted on the existing. Whilst not perfect, the end result is very pleasing to the eye. Add in a few nice Shawplan bits and it's not too difficult. And Brian Hanson seemed to approve of my method when we were talking at York last weekend! Even with sound, this method would work out quite reasonable.

 

Mine will use a Bachmann chassis and hopefully new sprung bogies as Bachmann's arrangement isn't entirely happy with P4 though works perfectly well in 00 and EM.

 

If you're going to Scalefour North it'll be on my demo

 

I've been trying to remember if it was 1958 or 1959 when on one of my rare trips to PN three Type 4's came through on Down trains in quick succession, and all were absolutely filthy, with road dirt so encrusted on the sides that it actually looked as though it was inches deep. Probably '59 I think. In contrast York, whose steam locos were generally filthy, kept D251 which always worked the York- Yarmouth as far as Lincoln in '59, in very nice condition.

Despite what I said above... That's possible and could be done to the weather conditions elsewhere on that day. it's odd when at work it's a lovely sunny winter's day and all of a sudden a number of trains are passing with the front ends covered in snow! Similarly one day in the autumn I distinctly remember a gloarious day at Gilberdyke - dry, sun shining and even warm enough for a couple of window and doors to be wide open! Then all of sudden a huge number of filthy trains came by! Class 158s with mud covered windows such was the road dirt!

 

And incidentally, my comment about the Type 4 at Riccall refers to a loco for a future project set in that area!

[great northern]

Doesn't time fly? No time at all to do anything with the railway until today, but at last a few more trains have run, and some more photos have been taken. We start with the station pilot bringing the stock for the 1247 to Cambridge up from Nene sidings and into Platform 6. I did start to do some photoshopping on this and the next one, but soon lost interest as it would have taken hours.

 

 

The N5 having detached and returned to the South bay,a Cambridge B2 has backed on, and awaits departure.

 

 

On the Up main, which is signalled for bi directional operation, a J6 brings a short transfer goods up from the South yard, and will work only as far as New England yards.

 

 

I nearly binned this next one, but you do see photos with burnt out skies, so it might as well go in. Don't nkow what happened to the rails on the Down main though.

 

 

One more of the J6, lovely little engine, from a now familiar viewpoint.

 

 

I had a request from Norman Saunders this morning to allow some photos of the layout to go on his Just Tracks website, and of course I was more than happy to oblige, and to do a few more for him. I know the occasional helicopter view is appreciated, as is Norman's superb work, so I'll put them on here too.

 

 

 

[Alister_G]

 I did start to do some photoshopping on this and the next one, but soon lost interest as it would have taken hours.

 

To be honest Gilbert, one hardly notices the background, the foreground draws your eye with all the exquisite detail.

[coachmann]

There's some luverly colouring on that trackwork Gilbert. It is so good that it makes me wonder why folk go to all the extra trouble of EM.

[Coldgunner]

Whats the loco picture you have on the wall there?

[davidw]

There's some luverly colouring on that trackwork Gilbert. It is so good that it makes me wonder why folk go to all the extra trouble of EM.

 

I think this is 00 though.

[Oldddudders]

I think this is 00 though.

Isn't that Larry's point? OO track can be made to look as good as this!