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    York UK
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    Parrots, Mostly Autumn, Real Ale

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  1. My Fathers early Railway jobs were as clerks at stations and he brought home large card ready reckoners for varying traffics so it was easy to read off how much to charge for a given mileage. In my experience having tares down to quarts wasn't very common on wagons with the exception of privately owned tank wagons which had this until metrication - and then they went over to (apparently) very accurate kilograms. It is noticeable that italics were quite often in italics - nothing to do with the GWR which used italics a lot for wagon writing - for many years on BR. This has been a good discussion about something many of us would take for granted as well understood and also as I get asked for the tare of a wagon and the concept these were large ranges of possibilities doesn't always go down well. Paul
  2. A very good very matt black with a slightly grey aspect is Vallejo 70.939 Smoke Games Workshop Chaos black (etc) is superb but not for the finish you are after. Paul
  3. Dear Paul,


    I am curious about the 16T Mineral wagons built by Pressed Steel.


    Were they to a standard (BR) design, or did they contain elements of Pressed Steel's own design. I have seen reference to end doors being of pressed design. Would these have been peculiar to the Pressed Steel batches, or more widely used?


    The reason I am asking, is that as part of my build of Paisley St James, the Pressed Steel plant at Linwood accessed via the Paisley & Barrhead District Railway was involved in Rolling Stock manufacture, and the intention, eventually, is to include delivery trains of new stock.


    I have a picture in my mind of a delivery train of 16T Minerals, ex works and unweathered, and in numerical order. Just my little pecadilloe, but something I would like to model.




    Ian Smeeton



    1. hmrspaul


      I don't usually reply to off site notices, especially not emails.

      It is likely that every builder had small differences. There are even tiny apparently one off within batches.

      I would suggest PS were a more upto date manufacturer than some used for the production of more than a quarter million wagons and PS did build one hell of a lot of them - although didn't they start quite late - look at Pete Fidczuks articles in Modellers backtrack. I can't recollect seeing any with pressed doors, a relatively early feature more often associated with rivetted construction. What evidence do you have for pressed doors?





    2. Ian Smeeton

      Ian Smeeton

      Sorry, Paul, I didn't mean to go 'off message'.


      I have no evidence for pressed doors, it was just idle speculation, as the company was 'Pressed Steel'.


      I have had a look through some of your photos on your site, and the doors seem to be welded or rivetted rather than pressed, although most of the photos that I have looked at were quite late in the wagons' lives.


      As you are the foremost expert on wagons on the forum, I thought that I could tap into your kbnowledge.


      Once again, sorry for any inconvenience.




      Ian Smeeton

  4. Thanks Bernard I know the clubman, but was surprised by the raking of the rear doors, I don't remember that. All the best Paul
  5. Barrow Class 108 Barrow to Lancaster 6th Aug 87 C8740 What is that yellow car? At first I thought it was a mini, but.... It doesn't look like the rear window will stay attached to the body for long! Is it some sort of home rebuild? Paul
  6. https://hmrs.org.uk/15t-loriot-d-gw-42142-diag-g18-in-unidloc-yard-f3r-4-6-0-gw-4079-background.html And to correct the much earlier, spiteful, exchanges BR wagons were LOWMAC (not LOMAC) Paul
  7. No. As Furness Wagon says every detail could be different. There were hundreds of pages of drawings of acceptable standard components. Every item could be specified by the customer from these drawings to make up what might be a standard wagon for them, for a year or two, and then when they ordered another batch they could choose to change. As well as all FW says look at how the end doors could be hung differently. Wagons usually had some steel work supporting the planking, look at how they differed in position, how they joined the solebar, how many bolts held the metalwork to the wood. And although the basic frame for privately owned wagons were usually of wood there was the alternative of using steel - an alternative that in later years the some of the railway Companies took up when building RCH standard minerals for themselves. Paul
  8. Tony Watts Ince book has an RCH standard all steel mineral wagon GA for 1903, and an all iron bodied open from 1857. Paul
  9. That's correct. Officially wooden open wagons (not just minerals) on wooden frames were NOT to be repainted. An instruction which altered in 1959. Admittedly photos do show some repainted but it was unusual. As you say the original lettering could show through, sometimes writ large and sometimes the small austerity lettering introduced during the war - although most of this would be over painted with the black ground where the BR P series number would go. Paul
  10. Wasn't the code Insulfish only used for the GWR design, BR built 6 wheel fish vans? The Vac braked Ammonias lasted until 1984. As I understand it, because there weren't enough VB tank wagons (possibly still using unfitteds) a small batch of VB wagons were built in 1978 to work with the earlier wagons. The last new build VB wagons put into revenue use on BR. I was fortunate to catch a few at Radstock wagon works OOU in 1985. Paul
  11. Mossend Class 86 81 85 26 14th Aug 87 C8959 Interesting, several of us had the run of Mossend two days later (with permit). I believe some RTR model wagons have been based on photos taken that day. Mossend had an incredible variety of traffics in the 1980s as well as usually line up a variety of electric locos. just some of my photos there https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=mossend Worth commenting that this was 375 miles from home, if driven directly! Alnmouth Class 40 down freight Aug 81 J7566  The Haverton Hill to Grangemouth Ammonia tanks with barrier wagons of ex fish van and LNER style tube wagon with doors removed (possibly ex Ale) https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/iciammonia https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbarrierrunner Paul
  12. Stranraer Harbour from MV Glen Sannox 9th May 87 C8449.jpg  An interesting variant on the way to load the Cartics. Paul
  13. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/rhttfeaf Paul
  14. The RCH specifications were enormous - I've seen a set 5 wood bound drawings of about A2 size, so not reproduced anywhere. There is general agreement the best published source is https://hmrs.org.uk/publications/books/books-in-print/private-owner-wagons-from-the-ince-waggon-ironworks-co.html which has both the basic General arrangement drawings and many detail drawings of running gear parts. Unusually Gloucester also has its own book which also includes a few GA drawings. Montague, Keith (1981) Private owner wagons from the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Ltd. Oxford Publishing Co. Oxford, SBN 86093 124 2. 182 pages Paul
  15. Wouldn't have taken long to answer this for yourself. Underframes were less likely to be done up but bodies were shot blasted https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/cemflo/e143c6522 Paul
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