Sutton's Locomotive Works class 24

[drgj]

I knew someone would bring out a class 24 after I spent ages on the one in my Hornby class 25 to 24 thread! Oh well at least mine was a bit cheaper. This new one certainly looks very good indeed- one of the best rtr diesels so far.

 

Dave

Edited December 3, 2015 by drgj

[pauliebanger]

Although mine can't at the moment, using the tricks explained earlier in this thread there are plenty of work arounds and next year I will have upgraded

 

Analogue Users.

 

It's worth noting that when using a sound equipped SLW 24 on DC (analogue), the only lights which will operate by default will be the front markers.

 

However, if the CVs for tail lights and/or cab lights are set beforehand to the values I gave earlier, they will operate as previously described.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[stovepipe]

There's an EU price including VAT and a non-EU price excluding it - this is quite common is it not?

[bennyboy]

RMweb has managed to start a fight in one of it's own empty rooms.

I thought that this was the room for arguments?

[BR(S)]

There's an EU price including VAT and a non-EU price excluding it - this is quite common is it not?

 

Yep, common practice to have zero VAT on overseas orders.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-exports-dispatches-and-supplying-goods-abroad

Edited December 3, 2015 by BR(S)

[Derekstuart]

I hope nobody minds but I have deleted my post above re: export prices.

I didn't want anyone to read it and not see your follow up comments below and thus making the same mistake. It has nothing- repeat nothing- to do with stopping me from looking foolish.

 

No, I have no idea whatsoever as to what I was thinking either. If indeed I was thinking. When I think of a credible excuse I will post it here. Ta.

 

A very small point though, exports outside the eu are VAT EXEMPT not ZERO. To a consumer they mean the same, but a VAT registered supplier has to treat them differently.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Derekstuart

[paulbb]

Anyone got close ups of the green liveried one? Running number(s)?

[Nick G]

Anyone got close ups of the green liveried one? Running number(s)?

 

 

Page 2 of this thread.

[Mike Storey]

Not really. A one-man band will always be able to bring models to market more cheaply than a larger organisation with lots of staff and overheads. 

 

Now that's not really true, is it Chris, and you know it? If said larger org was producing only one or two products a year, you might have had a point. But the spread of o/heads across many dozens, or hundreds, of products, the commonality of many parts, systems and distribution, the much greater volume of overall sales giving greater muscle with factories and distributors, and the ability to leverage at far lower cost, all combine to negate any benefit of a small supplier. On top of that, this small supplier is experiencing the full force of start up costs, having only ever commissioned via others before, and has not sought Kickstarter funding nor up-front deposits. He has made it/had it made, using only his or borrowed money and is now flogging it without much fanfare. The only missing items are marketing and retailer mark-up, and I do not see any great discounts to reflect that from the majors via their direct sales, in fact often the opposite, excepting their fire sales when they need some cash flow. If he can do it (assuming, and it is a great assumption at this stage, given what another new starter has recently revealed about his negative profit after pretty well selling out), then, once you add in retailer margin and marketing/distribution costs, a RRP of c.£200 would seem perfectly possible for the big boys and girls, for this level of detail, quality and verisimilitude. I agree with others that this really does set a benchmark they must follow.

[PenrithBeacon]

Both releases Blue & Green will be available in 'OO', P4 & EM.

But not in blackberry black!

Both releases Blue & Green will be available in 'OO', P4 & EM.

But not in blackberry black!

[tractor_37260]

Anyone confirm if the Zimo "Coupling Waltz" feature is one of the 28 function keys on the new Class 24 ? 

[pauliebanger]

Anyone confirm if the Zimo "Coupling Waltz" feature is one of the 28 function keys on the new Class 24 ? 

 

No, sorry, it is not included in the project by default.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Mallard60022]

I didn't even know this was happening but then I'm asleep most of the time. However, I am an existing customer and I have heard Mr Chetter's sound programmes which are IMO some of the very best available. Thus I conclude that this Class 24 will be one of the top models to date. It looks bl**dy brilliant from what I can see on here and available in EM without a huge time waiting for  wheelsets.

Oh what those 33s would have been like........................................

Phil

[tractor_37260]

Hopefully, next up will be the 24/1, including some of the ScR versions, with working car type headlights ?  

[Legend]

Now that's not really true, is it Chris, and you know it? If said larger org was producing only one or two products a year, you might have had a point. But the spread of o/heads across many dozens, or hundreds, of products, the commonality of many parts, systems and distribution, the much greater volume of overall sales giving greater muscle with factories and distributors, and the ability to leverage at far lower cost, all combine to negate any benefit of a small supplier. On top of that, this small supplier is experiencing the full force of start up costs, having only ever commissioned via others before, and has not sought Kickstarter funding nor up-front deposits. He has made it/had it made, using only his or borrowed money and is now flogging it without much fanfare. The only missing items are marketing and retailer mark-up, and I do not see any great discounts to reflect that from the majors via their direct sales, in fact often the opposite, excepting their fire sales when they need some cash flow. If he can do it (assuming, and it is a great assumption at this stage, given what another new starter has recently revealed about his negative profit after pretty well selling out), then, once you add in retailer margin and marketing/distribution costs, a RRP of c.£200 would seem perfectly possible for the big boys and girls, for this level of detail, quality and verisimilitude. I agree with others that this really does set a benchmark they must follow.

Spot on Mike!

The notion that big boys have overheads that need to be paid for is a bit perverse. These overheads should only be there if they earn their keep. If not you have to take them out. And as you say there should be synergies in making mass produced models compared to one hand assembled one.

 

I'm still excited by this project firstly because I think this genuinely a landmark product that has advanced the hobby, but secondly the level of pricing possible for a quality product ,hand assembled , surely now exposes some prices charged and claims being made on costs elsewhere.

[MR PJ]

Hello,

If this model had appeared a couple of years back I might have changed my mind about going for 2mm scale! It shows some great innovations and attention to detail I've never seen before on a RTR diesel.

 

I might have been joking about thinking the pictures were 7mm scale, but that is what I thought on first looking at the pictures. It has 7mm level of detail in a 4mm model...

 

Cheers

Paul

 

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

....funny feeling that it will shine a light through some of the lame excuses from the big manufacturers about production delays being out of their control too. If a guy on his own who hasn't released a model before can come up with what might yet be the most advanced & accurate 4mm loco....then their size, muscle power and presence obviously don't count for much.

 

Dave

 

Just a satisfied D5000 owner

Edited December 4, 2015 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[The Ghost of IKB]

To try and make a case for the high price of models from the big companies by arguing large scale sales networks are more costly and less efficient seems counter intuitive.  Surely it should be the reverse.  Certainly when olivia's launched the 76 there were people on here defending their high pricing because they were a small operation.  When you consider the price, specification and (lack of) accuracy of olivia train's 76 compared to this the 24 seems even more of a bargain.

I for one can't wait to buy a replacement for my bachy 24081 and hope 25's aren't too far away down the line

[Legend]

I think this has set the cat amongst the pigeons on costings. But there is a danger that the thread will get hi jacked by this (Guilty as charged!- I just find it fascinating) Probably better to concentrate on actual model and leave these discussions for another thread!

[Jamiel]

I am really impressed by the photos of the Class 24 models shown in the thread, and were it not for this thread would not have been aware of Rail Exclusives (I don't think they have made models for the period I model late 50's to 70's before).

Even if people can find little niggles with these (which seems to be the case with any model from any manufacturer, big or small), they still seem far superior to the Bachmann models of the the Class 24 (and old Hornby of the Class 25) and if the price is maintained around the level mentioned before for new customers, then I will be checking here to see when I can order one.

Perhaps the most appealing feature to me is that this model has the curve of the cab roof correct, making the loco feel much more like something from the 1950's. All the fine details are just 'cherries on top' for me given the correct cab profile.

I just need to do a little research to see if D5000 ever made it on to the Midland region in green (to fit my layout), and then when that fails, decide the buy it anyway.

Beyond this particular model, it is exciting to discover a manufacturer I was unaware of before, and to see that they are moving into modelling a period I, and many others, am interested in modelling.

Jamie

[pauliebanger]

I didn't even know this was happening but then I'm asleep most of the time. However, I am an existing customer and I have heard Mr Chetter's sound programmes which are IMO some of the very best available. Thus I conclude that this Class 24 will be one of the top models to date. It looks bl**dy brilliant from what I can see on here and available in EM without a huge time waiting for  wheelsets.

Oh what those 33s would have been like........................................

Phil

Phil,

 

Thank you for your acurate appraisal of my sound projects. A true connoissuer indeed. (Lol; cheque's in the post).

 

As to not knowing.......

 

Well, the way to keep a secret is to not tell anyone. Not even that you have a secret that you wish to keep.

 

Until very recently, only 6 people knew any of this was afoot, so whether asleep or not, you were in the majority.

 

From your point of view, isn't it better to have a lovely surprise than months, years even, of endless drip-feed information, at the end of which emerges a product which fails to live up to the hype?

 

'Course, having done so well hiding the Class 24 development it's going to be a lot more tricky to keep the Deltic a secret.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[37081LochLong]

'Course, having done so well hiding the Class 24 development it's going to be a lot more tricky to keep the Deltic a secret.

 

 

Haha don't get them started! Someone will take this as the truth and start spreading it

 

I wish it was the truth though but who knows... maybe it is

 

So looking forward to being able to get hold of a sound 24

[cctransuk]

Isn't it strange that Rail Exclusives AND Suttons Locomotive Works don't have their own individual titles on the main page under Manufacturers.    It will be noted that there are alleged manufacturers who haven't yet manufactured anything for the UK market...   Plesae correct me if I'm wrong on that... :-)

 

Please give it a rest - Andy's already answered you on this point.

 

If you don't like the way this site is run, there's a simple answer !!

 

John Isherwood.

[ruggedpeak]

I think this has set the cat amongst the pigeons on costings. But there is a danger that the thread will get hi jacked by this (Guilty as charged!- I just find it fascinating) Probably better to concentrate on actual model and leave these discussions for another thread!

I agree, but I have to say I am disappointed that RE has chosen to criticise other manufacturers (and the entire model rail press!). I've just had their email inviting me to buy a 24 as an existing customer and am disappointed to note that they have another dig at the end of the email.

 

I've read some of the comments in this thread, particularly in response to Chris Leigh's accurate and insightful point about producing one model versus large numbers. Whatever the historic frustations with other manufacturers (for whom commissions might not have been a priority nor particularly profitable - and we know one has just been cancelled apparently leaving the manufacturer with stock), the harsh reality is that without the big boys there would probably be no RE, as the market would not be big enough. It is not RE who are spending large sums on advertising and PR in mainstream settings or developing and selling products that attract new blood to the hobby (trainsets, Thomas etc), who sponsor high profile events and shows or generate significant economic activity to expand the hobby (yet).

 

And let's be clear, RE's business model is cutting out the very independent retailers who everyone apparently thinks we should be supporting. Big suppliers may have cut margins, stock may be variable etc, but they are at least giving indie retailers something to sell, and at least one of the big players is now regularly turning out models that are selling, which indies desperately need. There was huge condemnation of Hornby for selling direct but apparently it is OK for RE? It is also a bit ironic to accuse others of a "lack of interest" in this era - exactly what will people be running behind their Class 24's? Presumably wagons and coaches made by these 'uninterested' firms? This is not criticism of RE's business model, but facts that suggest the criticism of others is uninformed.

 

As was pointed out earlier, several smaller businesses have been doing this recently, and it does not reflect well on them IMHO. I've stopped buying one model rail magazine, as it has appointed one such person as a contributor, and I find it irritating and tiresome.

 

If this model really is a defining moment in OO gauge loco fidelity let's concentrate on that rather than doing down the opposition. I hope this model lives up to its promise, and that it drives forward railway modelling. I celebrate this apparent leap forward, and wish RE every success.

 

And now I've got to try and find £160 for one of these in the run up to Xmas.............

[Guest]

Are they on general sale yet and if not any one got a idea when they will

Cheers

Roomey