PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[TheSignalEngineer]

Might be quite a bit of this going on in a year or so.....

 

DSCN8275.JPG

Or this, on the Soho Pool Branch in 1981.

 

[Ravenser]

Peco products are undergoing other changes with the existing Insulfrog and Electrofrog points being replaced by Unifrog equivalents. These will behave like Electrofrogs as bought but, with the snip of a couple of wires, will behave like Insulfrogs for those who still haven't got their heads round the idea.

 

Unifrogs already feature in the new HOn3 range and I understand that the OO/HO programme will be implemented gradually as the existing tools come up for renewal. In time, it will lead to a significant (almost 50%) reduction in the number of tools required to produce the flat bottom ranges.

 

My guess is that the toolroom capacity thus freed up will enable Peco to launch a range of bullhead points using their existing resources. 

 

The launch of the plain track ahead of any such announcement is, I suggest, a "toe-in-the-water" to verify that "we" will actually put our money where our mouths are.

 

John 

 

That's very positive news. Unifrog will also reduce the number of ranges of pointwork that shops have to carry - thus making them more willing to carry things like code 75 and more specialist items

 

The new OO flexible track is very good news. Not quite excellent news, because we already had flexible track from C+L and SMP,  and we don't have the missing pointwork. I'm glad this has come before Joseph had too much money committed to design work. Obviously it's not wonderful news for C+L and Marcway . However this is only one element of their businesses, and I suspect there will continue to be a market for the C+L  flexible for those who prefer their look . In the short-medium term it may boost sales of their pointwork components as people look at the possible ways of producing the missing pointwork.  SMP flexible track is not that readily available these days 

 

I'm not currently building a layout or planning one in the immediate future , so won't be rushing out to buy just yet. But I would certainly think very seriously indeed about using  this and their code 75 concrete sleeper track on any  future project - provided there's a satisfactory solution for pointwork.

 

I would hope that as the code 75 pointwork is retooled for Unifrog, Peco will reduce the flangeway to 1.25mm . By that stage any RTR which might have a problem with that will be almost 2 decades old.... Code100 I would leave "as is" and let it become the range for "legacy stock" . That would then rationalise the Peco ranges into 2 , with clear product differention. 

 

So two and a half cheers for this one

[Spitfire2865]

Im excited about this announcement.

Although it is not yet a full track system, it shows one is being considered.

I may now have to design a pointless micro layout just to use some of this.

[martin_wynne]

Here is an idea what a Peco 00 bullhead turnout may look like.

 

Upper turnout is their current Large Radius turnout.

 

Lower turnout is the same geometry in the rails, with the timbering adjusted to match the CAD image which Peco have released for their bullhead track.

 

 

Martin.

[Jeff Smith]

Having made the announcement I'm sure Peco will be monitoring all the forums and responses to magazine articles when it makes review samples available.  I'm sure the point range is well advanced as it would be a bad move to stop at just flexitrack - after all flexitrack is already available.  I'm sure all the design decisions have already been made - it will be interesting to see if the points will be a 'drop-in' replacement for all those layouts already using BH flexitrack (SMP, C&L) and Peco Streamline points.  This would of course mean that the geometry and footprint would have to be the same.....naturally this would not suit some people but you can't win them all.  Alternatively, will they emulate the US Code 83 range......?

[Budgie]

Alternatively, will they emulate the US Code 83 range......?

I, for one, hope they do. But I'm not going to be disappointed if they don't.

[martin_wynne]

it will be interesting to see if the points will be a 'drop-in' replacement for all those layouts already using BH flexitrack (SMP, C&L) and Peco Streamline points. This would of course mean that the geometry and footprint would have to be the same

 

 

I think that is all but certain. Otherwise their press release doesn't make sense:

 

"The new bullhead track will be fully compatible with the firm’s existing code 75 flat-bottom Streamline range"

 

Martin.

[Adams442T]

Here is an idea what a Peco 00 bullhead turnout may look like.

 

Upper turnout is their current Large Radius turnout.

 

Lower turnout is the same geometry in the rails, with the timbering adjusted to match the CAD image which Peco have released for their bullhead track.

 

Martin.

 

Thanks for that Martin, it just shows what might be available, eventually...  I for one will purchase the new product when it comes out, just to see what it's actually like, but I'm not holding my breath for points.  Hayfield's methods seem simple enough, and reasonably priced if you buy them in component form.  I've wanted to start something as an alternative to my 'copperclad' pointwork EM layout, as I've got too many nice locos that I'm sure I won't get round to converting.

 

Anyway I doubt that Peco will be offering 00SF pointwork anytime soon.............

Edited January 27, 2016 by Adams442T

[martin_wynne]

Anyway I doubt that Peco will be offering 00SF pointwork anytime soon.............

 

I would hope not -- there are some poor souls on here who would suffer an apoplexy.

 

Martin.

Edited January 27, 2016 by martin_wynne

[Vistisen]

As a sceptic, another question now crosses my mind. Is Peco willingly offering this new plain track with genuine willingness to also produce points if it sells well? Suppose instead they have had this design in reserve for some time, and have now seen the threat from the rumoured DCC Concepts ready made pointwork range, possibly from the admittedly pricey C & L items, and from the announced intentions of one of our fellows on this forum. Might the current move simply be aimed at spoiling the market for rivals, so as to ensure that genuine competitors to the existing Peco points never appear, or at least that their manufacturers don't survive for long enough to make any real impression, leaving Peco free to simply continue to offer the existing code 75 points?

 

Perhaps my hypothesis is simply too fanciful and no more than another unfounded conspiracy theory?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the logic. DCC, and our own Rm 3dPrinter fans and Joseph are all talking about making points not flex track. So Peco is surely helping them by making the track to go in between thier potential products. If Peco at some point introduce points, they'll have to be even better than any of the others that are on the market.

[Vistisen]

Here is an idea what a Peco 00 bullhead turnout may look like.

 

Upper turnout is their current Large Radius turnout.

 

Lower turnout is the same geometry in the rails, with the timbering adjusted to match the CAD image which Peco have released for their bullhead track.

 

 

Martin.

You forgot to put that nasty joint in the middle of the blades But I could otherwise live with them. Having just spent a long time planning a layout using tillig tracks I'd like them to use their standards. But i know this is wishful thinking.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Vistiaen

[Ravenser]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the logic. DCC, and our own Rm 3dPrinter fans and Joseph are all talking about making points not flex track. So Peco is surely helping them by making the track to go in between thier potential products. If Peco at some point introduce points, they'll have to be even better than any of the others that are on the market.

 

I believe that Joseph was talking about making flexible track as well. Certainly a lot of time and energy in that thread was devoted to taking about plain track, though that is already available, and will now be coming from Peco as well.

 

DCC Concepts and Joseph are now in a quandary as to whether to commit further funds to developing pointwork - in which case Peco may launch a product ahead of them - or to back off, and possibly see Peco sit on their hands and do nowt further. I don't know how close to having something to launch DCC Concepts are.

 

The 3D printing people are unaffected, because the nature of 3D printing ("rapid prototyping") is that there is no tooling  and therefore no tooling cost. It's intended for short runs anyway, and may well be the way forward for the more specialist pointwork

[martin_wynne]

You forgot to put that nasty joint in the middle of the blades

 

I don't know why you call it nasty. It's true that loose-heel switches are a bit daft in heavy-rail flat-bottom track*.

 

But for bullhead track on branch and secondary lines, in yards and sidings, the old-style loose-heel switches are fine:

 

 

The difficulty is that for models other than P4 there is insufficient flangeway clearance at the heel joint. This means that the moving switches need to be made longer than scale length to gain sufficient clearance.

 

*in the UK. They are common in other parts of the world.

 

Martin.

Edited January 28, 2016 by martin_wynne

[Jeff Smith]

I think that is all but certain. Otherwise their press release doesn't make sense:

 

"The new bullhead track will be fully compatible with the firm’s existing code 75 flat-bottom Streamline range"

 

Martin.

You're probably right, unless it merely refers to rail height?

[coachmann]

Peco releasing plain bullhead track as a first move makes perfect sense to me. Many layout builders, me included, routinely mix Peco Code 75 points with bullhead ready-to-lay track. Peco is as well known as Hornby in model shops and so it cannot lose. The introduction now of matching turnouts is as inevitable as night follows day.

[Junctionmad]

I welcome this announcement, even if I find it strange that no point work was considered at launch. I suspect it's an announcement to head off competition.

 

Personally , I shall continue to support C& L , even for plain flexi, especially now as their wonderful 00 fast track based think sleepered version is available.

 

Dave

[bgman]

Good luck Peco brave move..... Oh! Look my box of Tillig arrived today bugg*r !!!

[Colin_McLeod]

 

A bulk order for edible hats please........

 

 

 

 

.

Size 16 and a half please.

[Colin_McLeod]

Well done Peco. I hope it is a commercial success to encourage Peco to produce a range of matching points.

[gismorail]

I knew this thread would go ' viral ' its really is BIG NEWS and the majority seem to be in favour with the announced with is all good. I do however wander as to whether members of the RM Web community realise that companies like C&L SMP/ DCC concepts etc are tiny compared to the Peco operation and although yes they are in competition  I would like to bet that Hattons sell more Peco track in a year than all the previously mentioned companies put together many times over. In fact it would be interesting to know the percentages between the types of track being produced. I remember talking to a Peco rep about 20 years ago in my local model shop and he was saying that Hattons was their biggest customer 'worldwide' and I would image that is still true today given the way that they have expanded recently. 

The other factor to consider is that hand build / kit track is more than likely a UK thing rather than the normal in other countries where most modellers use Peco or the alternatives. 

It will also be interesting to see what sort of price this bull head track is going to be marketed at when you consider the much high prices that have to be paid for 'scale' track. 

[martin_wynne]

The other factor to consider is that hand build / kit track is more than likely a UK thing rather than the normal in other countries where most modellers use Peco or the alternatives.

 

Bear in mind also that firms such as C&L, SMP, Marcway, still have the EM and P4 market segments, where all layouts use handbuilt pointwork. Peco have never entered those markets*.

 

When I was manufacturing pointwork kits and components, the EM market far exceeded both P4 and 00 for handbuilt track.

 

*apart from Ratio EMTrack sleeper bases.

 

Martin.

Edited January 28, 2016 by martin_wynne

[martin_wynne]

You're probably right, unless it merely refers to rail height?

 

Hi Jeff,

 

They refer to "compatible with the firm’s existing code 75 flat-bottom Streamline range"

 

Note "range", not "track". That either means the existing geometry, or it's sloppy copy writing. Peco's marketing is always slick.

 

Martin.

[gismorail]

Bear in mind also that firms such as C&L, SMP, Marcway, still have the EM and P4 market segments, where all layouts use handbuilt pointwork. Peco have never entered those markets*.

 

When I was manufacturing pointwork kits and components, the EM market far exceeded both P4 and 00 for handbuilt track.

 

*apart from Ratio EMTrack sleeper bases.

 

Martin.

I am mindful about the other scales in the 4mm sector but I still feel that is a 'tiny' market in the UK even smaller on a worldwide market. Another factor to consider is that the majority of  the layouts that are built with this type track tend to be terminus to fiddle yard 

[mvrnut]

Oh no ! Now I'll have to tear up all my track and relay it in bullhead.

Well don't think I will for my present layout but when I build my next layout I will definitely be using bullhead rail.

Great news from Peco. Well done.

 

Cheers,

Chris

[martin_wynne]

I am mindful about the other scales in the 4mm sector but I still feel that is a 'tiny' market in the UK even smaller on a worldwide market.

 

But you have to compare like with like. That means all EM and P4 layouts, v. only those 00 layouts using handbuilt track -- a tiny proportion of 00 layouts.

 

Martin.