DJModels Ltd End of Year Report 2016

[bingley hall]

.. 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by bingley hall

[Roy Langridge]

.. 

 

Spooky - there is a pair of eyes looking at me

 

Roy

[steveNCB7754]

Hi Dave,

 

Echoing somewhat, the sentiments expressed by others, congratulations on the last year and continued success for the future.

 

Building on the success of the OO-gauge J94/Austerity (I bought the NCB Mountain Ash #8), any news on the O-gauge version(s)?

 

 

Regards

Steve N (now tempted by the 'dark side')

[amwells]

Dave, in your end of year report, you talked about producing a PDF catalogue in Q1. Are you still planning on doing so?

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[DJM Dave]

Dave, in your end of year report, you talked about producing a PDF catalogue in Q1. Are you still planning on doing so?

Cheers,

Andrew

Hi mate,

 

I will be doing one, probable later now as I'm working on 'pre announced' stuff and think it would be right to get a bit more out first, then have a bit more in a PDF catalogue to announce / update etc.

 

Cheers

Dave

[brossard]

I'm curious about the 0 gauge products.  I am interested in the Class 23 but everything seems to have gone quiet.  I note on the website that the two 0 gauge models (J94 and Cl 23) got to the CAD stage but seem to have stalled.  I suppose that with everything else that's happening the priority has dropped.

 

John

[Great Western]

I think you can forget O Gauge, I for one am confused with the various projects self funding, crowd funding, fairy funding who knows?

I think it's a case of if you fund it yourself via crowdfunding he'll do it, failings that forget it, even if you do find it yourself the cut off date will be pushed further and further back and get all confusing which kills confidence.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Great Western

[YesTor]

I think you can forget O Gauge, I for one am confused with the various projects self funding, crowd funding, fairy funding who knows?

I think it's a case of if you fund it yourself via crowdfunding he'll do it, failings that forget it, even if you do find it yourself the cut off date will be pushed further and further back and get all confusing which kills confidence.

 

I'm not confused.

[DJM Dave]

I think you can forget O Gauge, I for one am confused with the various projects self funding, crowd funding, fairy funding who knows?

I think it's a case of if you fund it yourself via crowdfunding he'll do it, failings that forget it, even if you do find it yourself the cut off date will be pushed further and further back and get all confusing which kills confidence.

not quite accurate I’m afraid.

J94 in OO gauge, 17 in N gauge, mermaid in N gauge, shark unveiled the other week in N gauge, a game plan explained again and again regarding what comes when and why. None of this has been crowdfunded, and amounts to a reasonable 6 figure sum out of my own, not crowdfunded, pocket (Circe 250k at the moment).

 

Not sure you can be confused when I’ve been open about everything.

 

I think your crowdfunding comments are disingenuous, however as it’s so easy I’ll expect your models on the shelf within 18 months paid for by selling your home. Will you be doing a wish list thread? I want an 89 in OO please.

[UMinion]

If anything Dave you have badly managed your customer expectations. Initially you did promise models very quickly and let things slip. You have also repeatedly pushed crowdfunding deadlines back. I'm sure you have very valid reasons which are none of our business but at the same time you have to accept some responsibility for the situation and potential customers nervousness.

 

Even by your own game plan it's not what was originally promised. The shark and mermaid were not on your initial list were they? From what I recall sales of the J94 were to fund the other scales. You say you've explained the game plan again and again but there's some truth is saying you've changed your game plan again and again. If your customers are saying they are confused then that buck stops firmly at your door

 

Sorry to be a bit blunt but you surely realise customer confidence is less than ideal and telling you it's all fine and dandy isn't helpful.

Saying put your house up and do better isn't constructive at all. You chose to do this to make money. Sure you seen like a nice genuine bloke and market forces that no one could have predicted have necessitated some flexibility and I doubt anyone expected your plan to run to the letter but your post does seem like you are trying to blame your customers for believing expectations that only came from one source.

[DJM Dave]

If anything Dave you have badly managed your customer expectations. Initially you did promise models very quickly and let things slip. You have also repeatedly pushed crowdfunding deadlines back. I'm sure you have very valid reasons which are none of our business but at the same time you have to accept some responsibility for the situation and potential customers nervousness.

Even by your own game plan it's not what was originally promised. The shark and mermaid were not on your initial list were they? From what I recall sales of the J94 were to fund the other scales. You say you've explained the game plan again and again but there's some truth is saying you've changed your game plan again and again. If your customers are saying they are confused then that buck stops firmly at your door

Sorry to be a bit blunt but you surely realise customer confidence is less than ideal and telling you it's all fine and dandy isn't helpful.

Saying put your house up and do better isn't constructive at all. You chose to do this to make money. Sure you seen like a nice genuine bloke and market forces that no one could have predicted have necessitated some flexibility and I doubt anyone expected your plan to run to the letter but your post does seem like you are trying to blame your customers for believing expectations that only came from one source.

I understand what your saying but I’m not actually blaming any of my customers.

 

I have spelled out what would come first, second, third etc in the loco’s.

This hasn’t changed, not one bit.

The wagons are merely a bonus, for me to be fair as I managed to fund these separately.

 

Some of the crowdfunding projects, like the 92 have been delayed, but for totally justifiable business reasons that I cannot go into here as it’s still all confidential, whereas the king has now progressed to cad ‘shrinkage’ prior to tooling commencing.

 

The point is, to say I’ll drop everything to do a crowdfunded model isn’t true, or helpful.

 

You only have to read my rationale behind it to realise it ‘fills gaps’ while I raise the funding for the core range.

Again, nothing is secret, it’s all been mentioned time and again, and let’s be honest here, the posting was inaccurate, I’ve spent money in line with my business plan, and kept to it......j94- 17- 23- etc.

[tomparryharry]

If anything Dave you have badly managed your customer expectations. Initially you did promise models very quickly and let things slip. You have also repeatedly pushed crowdfunding deadlines back. I'm sure you have very valid reasons which are none of our business but at the same time you have to accept some responsibility for the situation and potential customers nervousness.

 

Even by your own game plan it's not what was originally promised. The shark and mermaid were not on your initial list were they? From what I recall sales of the J94 were to fund the other scales. You say you've explained the game plan again and again but there's some truth is saying you've changed your game plan again and again. If your customers are saying they are confused then that buck stops firmly at your door

 

Sorry to be a bit blunt but you surely realise customer confidence is less than ideal and telling you it's all fine and dandy isn't helpful.

Saying put your house up and do better isn't constructive at all. You chose to do this to make money. Sure you seen like a nice genuine bloke and market forces that no one could have predicted have necessitated some flexibility and I doubt anyone expected your plan to run to the letter but your post does seem like you are trying to blame your customers for believing expectations that only came from one source.

I say, that's a bit harsh, isn't it? 

 

Ian

[UMinion]

Thanks for your reply Dave. I too understand what you are saying but your previous post can be read as apportioning blame even if there was no intent (I do believe you when you say there wasn't)

 

That was my point really but it's been negated by your reply anyway so thanks for the clarification.

[Edge]

I'm curious about the 0 gauge products.  I am interested in the Class 23 but everything seems to have gone quiet.  I note on the website that the two 0 gauge models (J94 and Cl 23) got to the CAD stage but seem to have stalled.  I suppose that with everything else that's happening the priority has dropped.

 

John

 

In answer to this query, which i think has been lost a tad, CAD designs can be resolved reasonably quickly without having to worry too much about production costs. yes, there is a cost attached to them of course, but it pales in comparison to tooling and production. Once something is being tooled, it needs to be crafted, tested, retested, checked, rechecked, changed, painted for livery samples which themselves need to be checked and corrected. from what I understand from public sources (i.e. no insider knowledge), its no so much the production process for the 'O' models which is slow, but that the process needs to be completed for everything before them in the queue to bring in the revenue to pay for it all.

 

We should all give Dave a bit of leeway here, he's only had chance to deliver a single model with his own name on it so far (commissions don't count in this respect, as the profitability of retailer commissions isn't exactly record breaking, and crowdfunding by its very nature doesn't really bring in a decent profit margin until the second manufacturing run)so the revenue is still in the early stages. But with the 17 coming in the near future, mermaid, shark, etc coming on stream then hopefully this will offer him the chance to move things along

[woodenhead]

I think we need to consider the wider changes in the market place as well since Dave went it alone.

 

When he left Dapol there were four main manufacturers Bachmann, Hornby, Heljan and Dapol.  His market was probably that of Dapol's with an eye on what the bigger companies were targetting.

 

He was able to get commission work from Kernow and Hattons to supplement income, there was some crowdfunding as well all helping whilst he worked on the DJM launch locomotive the J94.

 

During this period the market has changed considerably and possibly in a way no-one expected - there is now the NRM, RealTrack, Rails of Sheffield and RevolutioN working with Rapido,  Kernow and Hattons have  cut out the middleman altogether and set up their own route to market.  We also have the Little Loco Company and Sutton Locomotive works building niche products plus others.

 

There is a crowded market out there looking to empty our wallets and no-one can afford to over stretch themselves as not every locomotive will fly off the shelves.

[Chris M]

Agreed we should give Dave a bit of leeway. I'm really pleased that he is doing what he is doing and hope it will be successful and profitable for him as that will mean more models for us. Yes he has a whole long  list of projects on the go but he has been quite honest in telling us that these can only progress to tooling when and if sufficient cash comes in from sales of the models he now has in the marketplace. I expect the wagons were done to help generate cash which will help towards future locos. The O gauge ready to run market seems to be attracting many new suppliers and models at the moment but I don't see it lasting. I think the limiting factors to the size of this market are cost of models and space required to store them.

 

I don't think there is any chance of Dave having to go and live as a tax exile in some far flung island from his DJ Models earnings.

[brossard]

Thanks Edge.  I suppose things of more immediate import have hijacked the 0 gauge models.  I will wait and see, but if my locomotive needs are satisfied by others, well...

 

Chris, as Dapol, Ixion, Lionheart and LLC (and perhaps others), give us loco models that don't break the bank (and yes they are dear, but I was looking at Masterpiece locos last night ) the marketplace should expand.  I'm a convert and I expect a lot of others will convert too.

 

John

[Legend]

Agreed we should give Dave a bit of leeway. I'm really pleased that he is doing what he is doing and hope it will be successful and profitable for him as that will mean more models for us. Yes he has a whole long  list of projects on the go but he has been quite honest in telling us that these can only progress to tooling when and if sufficient cash comes in from sales of the models he now has in the marketplace. I expect the wagons were done to help generate cash which will help towards future locos. The O gauge ready to run market seems to be attracting many new suppliers and models at the moment but I don't see it lasting. I think the limiting factors to the size of this market are cost of models and space required to store them.

 

I don't think there is any chance of Dave having to go and live as a tax exile in some far flung island from his DJ Models earnings.

Absolutely. I think Dave needs to be cut some slack. But at the same time he needs to watch communications. How many times have we seen I'll post an update on that next month, and then nothing. Then folks post to ask what's going on etc etc . It's like being marched to the top of the hill then.........................................

[adb968008]

During this period the market has changed considerably and possibly in a way no-one expected - there is now the NRM, RealTrack, Rails of Sheffield and RevolutioN working with Rapido, Kernow and Hattons have cut out the middleman altogether and set up their own route to market. We also have the Little Loco Company and Sutton Locomotive works building niche products plus others.

 

There is a crowded market out there looking to empty our wallets and no-one can afford to over stretch themselves as not every locomotive will fly off the shelves.

How many of these are down to a single supplier publishing links on Ali-baba that "shine"'s out, I wonder.

That could be risky for several budding enterprises should a hiccup, backlog, price rise or several mixed demands converge suddenly.

 

Putting up the money, and working on it yourself are very different things, one you can influence, the other possibly much less, especially if you do it all remote.

 

I suspect many of these new bold ventures are balancing on the same single column waiting for an earthquake. What would happen if one of the big boys buys that plant and cut off several of their customer facing competitors at the roots in one go or gives them an exclusive contract they can't refuse ? (That's what I'd be doing if I worked for a major facing this new threat). Secrecy doesn't seem to be the priority, unless one "model railway engineer" in china has a fetish for detailed pictures outside his day job, he has put very detailed images of one unannounced model online, on a page that names him and his Chinese employer (not the one eluded to above)...unless of course it was to be found, but I'll not be outing him or his employer !! Of course tools can grow wings, or not as they exit a window or disappear in a van.

 

Caution isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if several people over here are all dialling the same number over there creating a bubble of demand at the same time the economy and the currency is kind of so/so or if that supplier feels a little more confident that they can change the rules a little bit in their favour mid way into the game.

 

If Dave's holding back, I wouldn't blame him, it looks all nice in the shop window but suspect behind the scenes there's some debauchery going on, it's business after all, if your not looking someone will steal your lunch, then again you can sit and wait for them to choke too.

Edited September 30, 2017 by adb968008

[royaloak]

We have a had a lot of new models over the last couple of years and the vast majority of us have a limited modelling budget so cant afford to buy all the things we want too, I myself have never had so many models on my wish list and despite being on a damn fine wage I cant afford 5% of the models I would like each month so from Daves point of view of releasing new models into a (frankly) saturated market I can understand him delaying things hoping for a reduction in the new releases enabling us to be able to buy his models.

 

The old phrase 'we have never had it so good' springs to mind but from a financial point of view it is bloomin expensive and from a suppliers point of view it is looking a bit 'dodgy' with everyone else joining in with supplying new models to the marketplace..

[Roy Langridge]

We have a had a lot of new models over the last couple of years and the vast majority of us have a limited modelling budget so cant afford to buy all the things we want too, I myself have never had so many models on my wish list and despite being on a damn fine wage I cant afford 5% of the models I would like each month so from Daves point of view of releasing new models into a (frankly) saturated market I can understand him delaying things hoping for a reduction in the new releases enabling us to be able to buy his models.

 

The old phrase 'we have never had it so good' springs to mind but from a financial point of view it is bloomin expensive and from a suppliers point of view it is looking a bit 'dodgy' with everyone else joining in with supplying new models to the marketplace..

 

Well said. For the first time I am having to carefully choose the models I buy, not through earning less but through the sheer amount of models that I want and not being able to justify the total spend if I got them all. In years past I would have had a Bulleid diesel, just because it is interesting, but not now. With the 71s, 74s, a 4-TC, a Warship, 24s, 37114 etc. that one I had to forego. I am sure it is the first of many to go unpurchased.

 

That said, you will not hear me complain on price - I would rather have one well detailed model than two poorer models.

 

Roy

[Bernard Lamb]

I say, that's a bit harsh, isn't it? 

 

Ian

 

Not by the standards of what people write in social media.

Dave has tried to tell people what he is intending to produce.

Those with any grain of sense and/or social skills accept these helpful comments for what they are.

The world has changed and is changing at a rapid pace.

Brexit, May, Trump. Who could have forecast any of those events.

Who today can say what changes are soon to come following on from the fallout from these events?

There was one instance of a model that received enthusiastic greetings on here and in other places and when the model appeared about 50% of the interest evaporated.

You cannot blame Dave for that

I can understand that an event like that can lead to a change of both attitude and action by Dave.

I would rather take what the messenger has to say with a big pinch of salt, rather than shoot him and then hear nothing.

Bernard

[tomparryharry]

I'd agree with what others have said, the amount of new models is quite exciting at the moment. Little wonder, therefore, that some makers are slowing down a bit. In a way, it's a good thing from our point of view, that the bar is consistently being raised. The fidelity and quality of product is now 20+ years ago, and it's pleasing to see this standard coming through.

 

Also, it's interesting to note the less 'froth' about product, with customers awaiting stuff 'when it's ready'. The onus now is upon the makers to produce new kit at this higher level, as the general modelling public won't always go for it.  Also, customers have steadily repeated that they(as a rule) don't mind paying the extra monies to fund up the extra quality. In turn, it should instil a certain degree a confidence to start production in the first place. Happy days indeed.

 

It's nice to see the Hornby Peckett, still a yardstick change in my eyes. I won't buy a duchess until I can build a layout to do it justice. I will always find room for another DJM austerity, especially in that MSC ghost Grey.

 

I see that Oxford Diecast have turned out that pretty little 'Rivet Detector Van' in GWR green (JOKE). Who would have thought that?

 

Getting worked up about 'your' particular piece of railway kit is no big deal. There's a lot of choice to go around. If I can convince Hornby to re-work a GW pannier, I'd be a happy man....Oh, and a ... And a...

 

Who would have thought we would be having this sort of discussion even 5 years ago?

 

Ian.

[JSpencer]

Well said. For the first time I am having to carefully choose the models I buy, not through earning less but through the sheer amount of models that I want and not being able to justify the total spend if I got them all. In years past I would have had a Bulleid diesel, just because it is interesting, but not now. With the 71s, 74s, a 4-TC, a Warship, 24s, 37114 etc. that one I had to forego. I am sure it is the first of many to go unpurchased.

 

That said, you will not hear me complain on price - I would rather have one well detailed model than two poorer models.

 

Roy

As I said on another thread, southern items were rarely in any makes yearly program going back to the 90s. This year has seen a flood of models. I could not keep up. In my case I dropped a 4-TC to pay the Bullied diesels. I also dropped one L&B tank and one class 07 for some Ps. A new 92 is welcome south eastern item but utterly I have no chance to join that program with all the other stuff. It's a complex market with a lot of players. Each modeler will pick and choose. You preferred to keep your 4TC and drop the bullied, I did the opposite. One can only assume that getting a healthy order book is now a struggle. Who would have predicted a market flooded with new southern items a few years ago?