OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[B10M]

Here's my efforts so far, I can report that using a Bachmann dc controller it can slow crawl! 

My example had a tight spot but ironing out by the hour. I have blackened the "tyres" on both loco and tender along with all buffers. 

A slight disappointment that it's missing significant riveted detail on the running frame particularly fore of the smoke box, also missing the lamp irons up by the firebox along with the storm tarp irons on the tender. I can live with the chunky crosshead. 

 

Very tempted to get another and respray into ROD khaki, desert sand?

[B10M]

[B10M]

[B10M]

[Miss Prism]

Hmmm, maybe there was a shift from right-hand side to left for the rear vacuum pipe in later years.

 

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Hmmm, maybe there was a shift from right-hand side to left for the rear vacuum pipe in later years.

 

 

Here's Caerphilly Castle's 3500 gallon tender at Steam in June 2019:

 

And look what happens underneath:

[Hal Nail]

57 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Here's Caerphilly Castle's 3500 gallon tender at Steam in June 2019:

 

 

And look what happens underneath:

 

 

I'm leaving mine on the left but its an interesting one - I'd never noticed that some are on the right before it was pointed out today.

 

City of Truro seems to have the vacuum on the right and steam heat on the left and 4270 tank has both vacuum and steam pipe on the right.

 

Incidentally things get interesting at the front as well. The vacuum pipe usually runs below the front pony axle and then very obviously runs vertically straight up from way below the buffer beam.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrw382.htm

 

edit: pic chosen totally at random but have found an interesting formation!

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hal Nail

[tomparryharry]

Those are a nice set of photos there. I can't help but surmise that an extra millimetre between top & bottom slidebars  might well allow Dapol to keep the 'bars parallel.   

[AdamInTheAttic]

I got my Mogul today ilwith DCC. Ran really nicely straight out the box, although the front coupling hook was missing but no big deal. I was hoping to see the firebox flicker but there is none sadly, hopefully in the future I can add something to make it work. 

I heard a complaint of the front truck wheels not being to correct width but mine was perfect, and navigates all points and curves with ease. 

 

Overall, very pleased with the loco. 

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

City of Truro seems to have the vacuum on the right and steam heat on the left and 4270 tank has both vacuum and steam pipe on the right.

 

It also has an air brake pipe on the left.

Edited December 23, 2020 by melmerby

[Craigw]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

And like my search, produces very few rear views.

 

I have hundreds of pictures in books of GWR tenders but not many of the back end!

In Russell there is the later rigid 8 wheeler & a Hawksworth, both have LH vac pipes

 

Great Western Portrait (Swain) has a photo on page 3 of "Dog Star" at OOC with the vacuum on the RH side. This photo is taken late in the Great war or the early post war years as the loco is plain green with "Great Western" on the tender. There is also a photo in "The Kenning Collection" of the rear of a county (Page 5) with the vacuum also on the RH side.

 

Martin Finney does note that the pipes were switched on 3500 gallon tenders and suggests it may have occurred at the time the larger transverse tank was fitted from the mid-late 1920s.

 

As the 3500 gallon tender has the heavier springs and the transverse tank, I would suggest that the LH side is correct.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Miss Prism]

3 minutes ago, Craigw said:

Martin Finney does note that the pipes were switched on 3500 gallon tenders and suggests it may have occurred at the time the larger transverse tank was fitted from the mid-late 1920s.

 

Yes, I think that is it. The earlier Dean units were on the right-hand side, and probably stayed that way, viz CoT. (Not sure what is on the rear of 2516's tender.)

 

 

 

[Mark]

15 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Here's Caerphilly Castle's 3500 gallon tender at Steam in June 2019:

 

And look what happens underneath:

This is the pipe work under my 3500 gallon tenders. I made a jig to aid forming them.

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

This is the pipe work under my 3500 gallon tenders. I made a jig to aid forming them.

Very nice. Just out of interest, what was the connection between loco and tender like?

 

Heljan have done the pipes correctly on their 7mm version

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Hal Nail

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Great Western Portrait (Swain) has a photo on page 3 of "Dog Star" at OOC with the vacuum on the RH side. This photo is taken late in the Great war or the early post war years as the loco is plain green with "Great Western" on the tender. There is also a photo in "The Kenning Collection" of the rear of a county (Page 5) with the vacuum also on the RH side.

 

Martin Finney does note that the pipes were switched on 3500 gallon tenders and suggests it may have occurred at the time the larger transverse tank was fitted from the mid-late 1920s.

 

As the 3500 gallon tender has the heavier springs and the transverse tank, I would suggest that the LH side is correct.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

Moving them to the left would also make them far easier to connect to the pipes on coaching stock which were all on the left as far as I can ascertain.  That might be why they were altered to the left side?

[Henry 84F]

My partner gifted me with a Dapol mogul yesterday - BR early green and DCC fitted. I think it's a lovely model: both the detailing and the application of the livery are excellent. The tender is not very free-rolling. I'm yet to investigate whether this is the pickups against the wheels or the back-to-backs of the tender wheels. This does not detract from its haulage capabilities: the mogul handled a train of 8 mixed newer Hornby Colletts and Staniers very well. I don't know much about DCC decoders I'm afraid and the extent that the Zimo included with this contributes to its smooth running. Its slow speed is a bit of let-down: jumping from stationary to what I expect is a scale speed of about 4 or 5 mph. Slow speed after that however is smooth. Apart from this, it's a superb model and a great addition to the collection. The tender connection is particularly excellent. I do hope Dapol continue with their own Prairie as there are a few shortcomings in Hornby's that they have chance to address. I also look forward to the Manor: if it's as good as this Mogul and, if they factor in feedback from this model, then we're in for some real treats. 

 

Merry Christmas.

Henry 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

On 26/12/2020 at 19:15, Henry 84F said:

 Its slow speed is a bit of let-down: jumping from stationary to what I expect is a scale speed of about 4 or 5 mph.

 

Merry Christmas.

Henry 

 

That's exactly the problem I have found. I am using a Zimo MX618N18 fitted myself.

Above a fast walk it is smooth, making it go any slower by changing the V start CV2 results in crawl speed jerkiness.

However, I have found that by altering CV57, PWM output voltage reference, (not the same as V top CV5!) and tweaking the BEMF settings CV9/55/56 I can get a better slow running but it messes up the linearity of the top end somewhat. It looks like more work required to tame the beast.

 

Incorrect CVs listed.

Edited December 28, 2020 by melmerby

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, melmerby said:

That's exactly the problem I have found. I am using a Zimo MX618N18 fitted myself.

Above a fast walk it is smooth, making it go any slower by changing the V start CV2 results in crawl speed jerkiness.

However, I have found that by altering CV9, PWM output voltage, (not the same as V top CV5!) and tweaking the BEMF settings CV55/56 I can get a better slow running but it messes up the linearity of the top end somewhat. It looks like more work required to tame the beast.

That’s interesting, I have a 1631 which was terribly bad at slow speeds on D.C. so tried a Rails/DCC Concepts decoder (as recommended) to see if it improved the running, which it did to the higher speeds but just like your Loco it jumps from stationary to a fast crawl very suddenly, no smooth transition at all.  Might soon give up on it I think.

[melmerby]

5 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

That’s interesting, I have a 1631 which was terribly bad at slow speeds on D.C. so tried a Rails/DCC Concepts decoder (as recommended) to see if it improved the running, which it did to the higher speeds but just like your Loco it jumps from stationary to a fast crawl very suddenly, no smooth transition at all.  Might soon give up on it I think.

Not quite.

I found that if it is set to start at higher than normal first "notch" it is smooth from there on, which it seems that some who have DCC fitted locos have found there's do.

I can get it to go very slowly, but it's also quite rough when doing so, hence fiddling with CVs I never normally bother with.

I suspect it is the IMHO over high gearing where the motor is turning way too slow at such speeds.

[Adrock]

I had been watching the spares list on DCC for a few weeks, and once they became available I purchased a 3500 gal tender in BR black. Just £18 plus delivery for a fully painted and running model, I think that’s pretty reasonable. Idea is to use it behind a Bachmann Collett Goods, as Bachmann haven’t done that loco/tender configuration in pristine BR black. The black is a very close match to the finish of the loco, so I have just taken it apart with a view to adapting the chassis to enable it to connect over the loco’s draw hook. Anyone else done anything similar or have any thoughts on the tender modifications? Will post some pictures later. 

[Adrock]

On 23/12/2020 at 12:41, B10M said:

Here's my efforts so far, I can report that using a Bachmann dc controller it can slow crawl! 

My example had a tight spot but ironing out by the hour. I have blackened the "tyres" on both loco and tender along with all buffers. 

A slight disappointment that it's missing significant riveted detail on the running frame particularly fore of the smoke box, also missing the lamp irons up by the firebox along with the storm tarp irons on the tender. I can live with the chunky crosshead. 

 

Very tempted to get another and respray into ROD khaki, desert sand?

The black treatment really takes this to another level and makes it look closer to a Bachmann engine. How have you done the wheels and buffers, masked or used a brush by hand? Would you kindly let me know what paint you have used too please, as it looks a good match for the wheel centres...

 

thanks

[tomparryharry]

2 minutes ago, Adrock said:

I had been watching the spares list on DCC for a few weeks, and once they became available I purchased a 3500 gal tender in BR black. Just £18 plus delivery for a fully painted and running model, I think that’s pretty reasonable. Idea is to use it behind a Bachmann Collett Goods, as Bachmann haven’t done that loco/tender configuration in pristine BR black. The black is a very close match to the finish of the loco, so I have just taken it apart with a view to adapting the chassis to enable it to connect over the loco’s draw hook. Anyone else done anything similar or have any thoughts on the tender modifications? Will post some pictures later. 

 

It sounds like a very good idea. A tender with pickups for £18?  Game on!

[gwrrob]

More photos on my layout thread but here's 5391 on a van train. The shirtbutton has been replaced by GWR ,in the correct position, using Fox transfers by @toboldlygoof this parish.

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

24 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

It sounds like a very good idea. A tender with pickups for £18?  Game on!

 

They're actually 20 sheets but still a good price.

[57xx]

I've had my Mogul out on the test circuit over christmas. Happy to report that it runs very well on DC (ECM Compspeed feedback controller) and it hauls well too. It does take a bit more effort to get it moving off in reverse but forwards you can get a reasonable start with it. It will run nicely at a crawl or at Intercity 125 speeds with the knob on 5. Better gearing is definitely required in this. The useable range on the controller is mainly between 1 and 2 (goes up to 5). Below 1 you have to be very careful but can get very slow crawl, above 2 it starts getting into Express territory, above 3 and you can see the fireman is really having to work for a living (the firebox flicker only comes on above 3).