Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[YesTor]

50 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said:

Next job is to sort out the lights!

 

 

66621 is the 'bug eyed' version.  Are you having a go at modifying?  I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in your findings...   

 

Best

Al

[YesTor]

12 hours ago, Shoey said:

I’ve been greedy and have 17 in total. Photos show the loco numbers/product codes. I have checked and tested all 17. Some are dc and some are DCC fitted (no sound fitted ones) I’ve had 6 out of the 17 that wobble, I have removed the axle box covers on the ones that wobble and it immediately eliminated the wobble on all 6 and they run smooth and wobble free at all speeds. I’ve tested them in both directions at all speeds across some Hornby code 100 points (R8077 & R8078) and none of them derailed.

 

...straight out of the box there were no parts that had come loose and everything was/is intact. Out of the 17 I have one (DRS 66301) that has one axle box cover missing which isn’t in the box which I’m sure Hattons will supply me with once they have them in stock. Nameplates are firmly fixed in place and are all level (to my eyes anyway!) no glue marks or any other kind of imperfections to the paintwork. Overall, I have to say I am over the button moon with them, down to performance and detail. Going on my experience, I’d recommend them to anyone contemplating buying one.

 

17 models?  Very nice, at least now I don't feel quite so over-indulgent over my 11.   

 

Anyhow, I'd say that's a very fair summary and on average plonk myself in a similar ballpark with regard to my models. 

 

In all, yes, there are clearly issues with axle-box covers on some models causing the 'wobbling' issue, in which case surely buyers can either return their models for replacement or indeed fix the issue themselves, if comfortable doing so (which isn't that difficult really - check my photos earlier in the topic, there may be other ways I'm sure which maybe others could also share, but for now my method works for me).  Okay, it's not an ideal or preferred situation, but for now I guess it is what it is.  

 

I haven't really experienced any issues with tiny parts falling off - I'm struggling to see what all the fuss is about in this respect, to be fair.

 

Having set up configurations of various points and tested all models and all seemingly glide around with ease. Personally, I am deeply wary of one so-called 'review'/fault-finding mission [delete as applicable], based upon what could well be one seemingly rogue model that appears to derail on one turnout on one man's layout. 

 

The sound-fitted models are absolutely amazing on what is visually a very highly-detailed model, which to my eye is leagues ahead of all other representations of the Class 66 in the current market.

 

Am I chuffed-to-bits?  An absolute YES.

Would I recommend purchasing?  An absolute YES.

 

Best

Al

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by YesTor

[SouthernMafia]

2 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

66621 is the 'bug eyed' version.  Are you having a go at modifying?  I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in your findings...   

 

Best

Al

 

Yes, I'll be doing something similarly to the method previously posted on page 86, but as I'm not too worried about night mode I plan to just sort the missing marker. Trouble is as the LEDs are the wrong colour it may be easier to replace the lot!

Waiting for my driver from ModelU to turn up so I'm only taking the body off once to do the lights, fit the air dam and driver.

[Sir TophamHatt]

11 hours ago, SouthernMafia said:

We discussed the radar hiss, which is quite a prominent sound to the 66, and it was a shame to hear this was to be 'off' by default, and turned on by F14, which is a pain to to get to on a NCE controller.

 

Does the NCE controller not remember what functions are left on from last time?
I have to double check but I'm pretty sure mine is on all the time now I've turned it on.

But good for sharing any how!

[Pete the Elaner]

12 hours ago, SouthernMafia said:

 

 

We discussed the radar hiss, which is quite a prominent sound to the 66, and it was a shame to hear this was to be 'off' by default, and turned on by F14, which is a pain to to get to on a NCE controller.

 

 

Is your Option button programmed for higher functions? I don't find pressing Option to change buttons f0-9 to F10-19 much of a pain.

Option is by default a 'brake' key in that it sets to speed to 0, which I & others find quite useless.

Re-assigning it is covered in the manual, I believe 122 is the correct value to easily assign higher functions. Once programmed, it stays that way & does not need to be re-programmed each time it is switched on.

[Pete the Elaner]

9 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

Does the NCE controller not remember what functions are left on from last time?
I have to double check but I'm pretty sure mine is on all the time now I've turned it on.

But good for sharing any how!

That's not as easy a question as what it seems.

 

The NCE has a recall stack, which can contain anywhere between 1-6 locos. When recalling locos from within the stack, it will still be aware of which functions are on.

 

When re-adding a loco to the stack, the throttle does not know which functions are on & since it cannot read them from the running track, the default action is to reset all functions & speed to 0, sending a signal to the loco to do this. All functions are off, & the throttle shows them as off.

There is an option on the PowerCab (but not the PowerPro) to not send this signal & leave locos running when re-added to the recall stack. This is one of the throttle options "SetLocoRefresh". Default value is 1, meaning when the loco is re-added, all values will be set to zero. If you want to leave them running, set this value to 0.

 

The problem with setting this to 0 is that you can recall something with some sounds still working. Some of these sounds may only be active when running (like braking sounds, block token request, guard to driver right away etc) but by being on, they will each be using 1 of the 4 available sound channels. Further sounds like spirax valves could then be selected but with no channel available, they will not do anything.

 

When turning a layout back on, I cannot remember if sounds will re-start on locos. I believe the throttle will be unaware of anything running.

[SouthernMafia]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

That's not as easy a question as what it seems.

 

The NCE has a recall stack, which can contain anywhere between 1-6 locos. When recalling locos from within the stack, it will still be aware of which functions are on.

 

When re-adding a loco to the stack, the throttle does not know which functions are on & since it cannot read them from the running track, the default action is to reset all functions & speed to 0, sending a signal to the loco to do this. All functions are off, & the throttle shows them as off.

There is an option on the PowerCab (but not the PowerPro) to not send this signal & leave locos running when re-added to the recall stack. This is one of the throttle options "SetLocoRefresh". Default value is 1, meaning when the loco is re-added, all values will be set to zero. If you want to leave them running, set this value to 0.

 

The problem with setting this to 0 is that you can recall something with some sounds still working. Some of these sounds may only be active when running (like braking sounds, block token request, guard to driver right away etc) but by being on, they will each be using 1 of the 4 available sound channels. Further sounds like spirax valves could then be selected but with no channel available, they will not do anything.

 

When turning a layout back on, I cannot remember if sounds will re-start on locos. I believe the throttle will be unaware of anything running.

 

Without taking this thread too far off topic...

 

1) Yes OPTION is set for extended functions, I find this annoying but live with it (I know it's the best setup I'm gonna get), if I can get a well used sound or function on anything lower than function 9 I'm happy. Also, on our club layout, it's handy to keep things simple and getting some members to work with the basic NCE set up is a success, confusing them with anything above turning the sound and lights on is not a good idea! 

 

2) As Pete says it will remember functions on within the recall stack, but when removed from the stack and reinserted it doesn't. I'm afraid Pete your fix doesn't work either, I've tried it and all functions still return to default state of off. The easy way out is to press F1 straight away to at least keep the sound on, but headlights and other functions go off. If your NCE throttle behaves differently I'd be interested to hear how and why mine isn't, it's one of my biggest issues with the otherwise excellent NCE setup.

 

Again, on the club layout where we can have somewhere in the region of 30 trains and 5 controllers, the functions go off when your reselect outside the stack, or on another controller. This is particularly frustrating when the loco is 'out the front'. 

[SouthernMafia]

Correction - sorry Pete you're right it does leave the functions on, but the controller returns to the normal state as shown, so the moment you press a function number or lights etc, all functions return to OFF except the one you just pressed. Changing the speed doesn't affect this.

[YesTor]

11 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

For one who was so critical about tone, I think it could be worth having a little look at yours given the lengths you are going to in order to berate me for presenting my findings, at every opportunity, which is beginning to feel a bit like a personal attack if I am honest!

You are still failing to acknowledge the raft of positive points covered in the 'fault finding mission' though.

Marcus, to clarify...  there is nothing personal in anything that I have written above whatsoever.  Much as you hold an opinion on the Hatton's model, I similarly hold an opinion on your 'review'.  As you say, you do point out some positives, but those positives are hugely outweighed by what comes across at times, as ridicule and derision at every turn - even the tape that secures the internal wiring is not-quite as you'd like it, quote: "pathetic", in fact?  I mean, come on, are you serious?!  The cab interior looks as though it has been drawn on MS Paint?  All spoken in a tone of, "let's poke fun and ridicule to the nth degree, *cough*... the model I 'love'?"  Something doesn't compute. 

 

Anyway, I feel we could lock horns on this until the end of time, so it does feel wise we should draw a line.  For final clarification, it seemed relevant to reference your video at this time due to the fact that the general discussion of a poll (or similar) was largely a product of the video being published.  It really is no more complicated than that. 

 

Clearly our viewpoints are poles apart.  So be it.

 

And on that note hopefully we can draw a line under this aspect of the topic and simply agree to disagree.

 

Best wishes...

Al

Edited April 6, 2020 by YesTor

[john new]

14 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Having set up configurations of various points and tested all models and all seemingly glide around with ease. Personally, I am deeply wary of one so-called 'review'/fault-finding mission [delete as applicable], based upon what could well be one seemingly rogue model that appears to derail on one turnout on one man's layout. 

 

Best

Al

 

 

The above seems to match what I posted so a bit more background is perhaps needed.

 

My review on the basis of derailing on points was made in good faith partly in the hope someone had a suggested solution. Film on YouTube I had seen was also showing similar random derail issues. Another poster suggested that taking the thing to bits and rebuilding the bogie tower was an answer. Not wanting to do that without exhausting all other options first I ran a model version of a RAIB investigation, and identified two spots where the 66 came off regularly, my only loco to do so. Not wishing to take the loco to bits I re-examined the track and found a bodge solution that worked and therefore also reported that. My earlier posts have now been updated confirming the track was at fault not the loco.

 

For the record both problem sites are now fixed and my 66 runs through them.  One fixed by a new check rail replacing the card bodge the second by some very minor track realignment (half to 1mm at most). Although the loco runs through without derailing the various clunks and clonks as it does so suggest it does need good track with fine flange-ways etc., my proprietary sharp radius track is a bit too crude for it.

 

That said, this 66 is my only piece of rolling stock that hasn't been OK over the track formation as originally laid (defects and all)  - I think it is therefore fair to say "my loco is very sensitive to track defects". Is mine a one-off rogue? I can't answer that as I only own one - it needs the suggested poll; however, based on @Shoey's post stating 6/7 out of his 17 have issues roughly 33% may be a possible figure for the fault ratio.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by john new
Typos and punctuation error.

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, SouthernMafia said:

Correction - sorry Pete you're right it does leave the functions on, but the controller returns to the normal state as shown, so the moment you press a function number or lights etc, all functions return to OFF except the one you just pressed. Changing the speed doesn't affect this.

 

 

It is only a guess, but maybe the throttle refreshes all settings when 1 is changed? This way, if a command is ever missed due to dirt upsetting the signal, it will get re-sent when the next command is sent.

This would explain several things changing when you send the 1st command.

[YesTor]

6 minutes ago, john new said:

 

The above seems to match what I posted so a bit more background is perhaps needed.

 

 

 

Arrrgh, sorry @john-new , my comment was not aimed at yourself, in fact I had not seen your video at all.  Apologies for any confusion. 

 

Best

Al

Edited April 6, 2020 by YesTor

[Dicky L]

Another day, another Hattons Class 66 video. 

 

This time we have 66789 hauling the equally brilliant Accurascale Castle Cement PCAs

 

 

[7013]

Well my 66 must be in revenue earning service. It has gone from Hattons up north to Swindon, then to Bicester, now back to Swindon! At some stage it may reach Banbury! 

[Dicky L]

12 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Snap,i have the same as theres lots of pictures with 66789 pulling them,theres one double heading with Biffa too ,makes a nice rake

 

I wasn’t aware 783 had worked the cements. another one to recreate in the fullness of time. 

[big jim]

Not had ‘Biffa’ on the cement yet but did get 66789 on it earlier in the year, actually the first time I’ve worked a train with the 4 wheel cement wagons 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by big jim

[JohnC]

On 01/04/2020 at 02:57, YesTor said:

Just to follow up on my last post having removed all axlebox covers, and basically all that seems to be required is the use of a 3mm drill to gently enlarge the existing holes in the bogie sideframes:

 

 

 

 

One of the internal section sideframes was loose on my model and I guess some may find it easier to work on this section if removed from the main bogie, however it really isn't necessary as we are only very gently enlarging the holes anyway, but just for reference:

 

 

 

Clean up the axlebox caps as necessary, add a tiny dab of glue to the tip of the axle and insert and clip the cap back into place:

 

 

 

 

I left the glue to harden overnight, and all looking neat and tidy in the axlebox department...

 

 

 

A quick test shows the 'shed' now running as smooth-as-silk and not a wobble in sight...   Joy!  

 

 

 

One beautiful model!

 

cheers

Al

 

Thank you Yes Tor

Done mine and running perfectly

John

[YesTor]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Thank you Yes Tor

Done mine and running perfectly

John

 

Excellent, John! 

 

 

Best

Al

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Dicky L said:

Another day, another Hattons Class 66 video. 

 

This time we have 66789 hauling the equally brilliant Accurascale Castle Cement PCAs

 

 

 

Mine will be doing that too once Hattons get around an IT issue preventing them applying my postage discount code as it's a replacement. One they all come 5 of my 6 66s will be GBRF. I like GBRF as they seem to pull the biggest variety of stuff where RTR wagons are readily available. Although I don't think they do so anymore there are pics of them pulling FL HIAs which I also have.

[atom3624]

Excellent work on the refining of the H66 bogie sideframes.

 

The problem I found when letting the glue 'cure' was being certain I'd got the AB - 1 wobbly on mine - as straight as possible after the very slight enlargement of the AB hole - this I found was 'the worry'.

 

Al.

[TomScrut]

17 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Anyone feel that Hattons shot themselves in the foot re tooling the windows on 66783,i would have thought Biffa was a popular livery,but its not sold out on pre order along with the Royal Scotsmans

 

I think the issue is that whilst it's a cool livery, I don't think it has the same appeal as BR blue, Cemex and ONE. I'd have probably had it if it wasn't that I was getting the three aforementioned ones (and another of non celebrity status).

 

I think long term the model (and therefore the paint and mould tooling) will have more appeal as they have done it. Unless it gets reliveried before long the majority of it's time will be spent as the tooling is. It's also unique in this respect I think? The alternatives have it in the older configuration don't they?

 

I'd expect given the permutations of the loco as it is that the moulds will be modular so the actual configuration whilst unique may not have cost anything other than setup time? Just a thought. I aren't an expert on injection moulding but I expect that there will be some modularity.

 

The Royal Scotsman is a funny one. If somebody did the coaches they'd sell like wildfire I'd say! A bit like the TPE 68s, sat in shops, Accurascale announce the Mk5s and they become hot property. Anyway in if somebody did the Scotsman coaches, a RTR luxury train, applicable to almost anywhere in the country (once a year when it tours, and all the time in Scotland) pulled by 2 Hattons 66s would be if great appeal I think. I have the Hornby Belmond Pullman and I like that as it's a good model and just something different, although won't be picking up the second skip until it's cheap!

Edited April 6, 2020 by TomScrut

[YesTor]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Excellent work on the refining of the H66 bogie sideframes.

 

The problem I found when letting the glue 'cure' was being certain I'd got the AB - 1 wobbly on mine - as straight as possible after the very slight enlargement of the AB hole - this I found was 'the worry'.

 

Al.

 

Indeed, I actually ran the model gently for just a few inches immediately after gluing just to check that the 'wobble' had gone, but not too long so as to dislodge the axle-box covers, and then left overnight... 

 

I guess I should have mentioned that in the guide, but hopefully you see what I mean...

 

Al

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

The Royal Scotsman is a funny one. If somebody did the coaches they'd sell like wildfire I'd say! A bit like the TPE 68s, sat in shops, Accurascale announce the Mk5s and they become hot property. Anyway in if somebody did the Scotsman coaches, a RTR luxury train, applicable to almost anywhere in the country (once a year when it tours, and all the time in Scotland) pulled by 2 Hattons 66s would be if great appeal I think.

I gave up waiting and am currently recreating my own. 

[bart2day]

On 04/04/2020 at 12:34, 7013 said:

. My concern with your video is that not all 66s distributed have what appear to be major faults like yours. 

 

He can only review what’s in front of him. If he got sent two faulty locos that’s either incredibly bad luck (unlikely) or demonstrates wider issues with the Hattons 66 (more likely). 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Having watched the review, on a personal note I think it is incredibly true, honest and generous. 

 

Just though observing this thread alone it does appear that their has been several QC issues with the Hattons 66s including: wobbly runners, axle boxes falling off or causing the locos to wobble and derail, detailing parts been fairly lose and falling off for example when removing the bodyshell, livery errors including the Colas Rail Freight 66s, Freightliner 66621, the font on the EWS 66s for the 'EWS lettering and the incorrect orange used on 66623 if this hasn't been corrected. 

 

With all of this in mind and this is several QC issues that we are talking about their would be little point in recording a review video to then not explain the full extent of the issues and errors. A review is supposed to be truthful, unbiased and have balance to both positives and negatives in relation to what is been reviewed. I think that the review is really generous, considering that the minimum cost of the models is £150 each and that extends to £165 for DCC Fitted and £265 for DCC Sound Fitted. For any of the three amounts of money customers should not expect to receive models with several QC issues. 

 

I also thought that it was good to highlight that the Hattons 66s do need work in some instances to repair them, especially if Hattons can't provide replacement models due to them having sold out. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable in dismantling a full loco in relation to the axle boxes, wobbling etc to try and cure this, thus for anyone having not bought one alike myself it's good to know these things before committing to spending money on such items. It's also beyond me feeling uncomfortable in doing such work to expensive models but also down to me not having done anything like it before and I wouldn't know what to do. Even if I managed to dismantle the loco and rectify the issues I would most likely really struggle with reassembling it to get it running again. 

 

Also a review has to be out about 'the model in front of you'. A review can't simply wander away and consider other models which the customer hasn't bought, hasn't seen and hasn't examined. Considering that the QC issues do seem to be quite widespread it's not as if the reviewer has been harsh in the review, because it does seem to be that a number of customers are encountering problems. Therefore the reviewer hasn't been 'unlucky' with the models he has received and nor has anyone else because the QC issues are their regardless as to who has bought the 66s. 

 

The review also contained positives about a model that does have several QC issues. Other reviewers may not have been as kind and as generous when reviewing these models with this in mind. 

 

From my perspective, from someone who hasn't bought any I would say that the Hattons 66 is a massive step up from the previous models in terms of detailing and lighting features but overall these efforts do seem to have been let down by the QC issues, which is a shame considering that it's such a significant improvement from the previous offering. 

 

So thank you for the review, it was most informative. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny.