HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Being devils advocate, Heljan must have made the financial decision to enter a new market, so should be aware of how other manufacturers operate in that market

 

When they entered the market, Accurascale didn't exist. How were they supposed to predict it? Are you suggesting that a manufacturer should withdraw from the market if they don't match up to your current favourite? On that basis, DJM made a lot of noise and announced loads. You seem to be suggesting everyone else should have done the same.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

Being devils advocate, Heljan must have made the financial decision to enter a new market, so should be aware of how other manufacturers operate in that market, and so know what resources it takes to survive in that market, it's not necessarily as simple as chucking cardboard boxes out.

 

Mike.

 
Heljan entered the UK 00 market over,I think,a decade ago.Awareness of a “new market “ had a different meaning then I think. Please consider the harshness of the value judgement contained in your final phrase.IMHO it is grossly unfair 

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Heljan entered the UK 00 market over,I think,a decade ago.Awareness of a “new market “ had a different meaning then I think. Please consider the harshness of the value judgement contained in your final phrase.IMHO it is grossly unfair 

Time flies, its nearly two decades. First UK 00 model was 2002. 
 

Roy

Edited February 11, 2021 by Roy Langridge

[andyman7]

I think Heljan have contributed enormously to the cause of 00 RTR D&E modelling. Despite one or to hiccoughs they have addressed an enormous number of gaps, and to a standard I would never be able to match.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

When they entered the market, Accurascale didn't exist. How were they supposed to predict it? Are you suggesting that a manufacturer should withdraw from the market if they don't match up to your current favourite? On that basis, DJM made a lot of noise and announced loads. You seem to be suggesting everyone else should have done the same.

 

 

11 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Heljan entered the UK 00 market over,I think,a decade ago.Awareness of a “new market “ had a different meaning then I think. Please consider the harshness of the value judgement contained in your final phrase.IMHO it is grossly unfair 

 

As I said, I was being devils advocate, I'm not knocking Heljan, in fact I've known Ben Jones for considerably longer than most of you and have great respect for him.

Just because they entered a different marketplace doesn't mean that they, or any other company, can stand still. All companies have to be fluid and adapt to changing circumstances.

Ian, I'm at a loss to understand your final comment, please explain.

 

Mike.

[Ian Hargrave]

24 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

As I said, I was being devils advocate, I'm not knocking Heljan, in fact I've known Ben Jones for considerably longer than most of you and have great respect for him.

Just because they entered a different marketplace doesn't mean that they, or any other company, can stand still. All companies have to be fluid and adapt to changing circumstances.

Ian, I'm at a loss to understand your final comment, please explain.

 

Mike.

OK. Simply that I consider the remark about “simply chucking cardboard boxes out “ overstating your case. Now let’s leave it at that.

[Roy Langridge]

To be honest, this is all getting silly. As above, I am unhappy with the cab door, beyond that it looks a very good model. There was a query over holes in the bogie where Andy Y's photos gave the impression that only four were present, this has now been resolved.

 

As for communication, Ben has contributed more on behalf of Heljan than was the case before his arrival. Ok it may not be at Accurascale levels, but it is a lot more than some other manufacturers. Comments about the size of company made me smile - it almost had the feeling of "My Dad's smaller than your Dad".

 

Yes, I share the frustration that Ben stated that feedback would be taken on board and some appears not to have been, but that is probably based on Heljan's commercial decision as to what makes the model viable.

 

Will I buy one? Six months ago I cancelled a pre-order as I lacked confidence. I am still not 100% sure and will wait to see one in the flesh, but I would suggest the chances are greater than 50/50 that I will get one.

Roy

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Roy Langridge

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

I've known Ben Jones for considerably longer than most of you and have great respect for him.

Just because they entered a different marketplace doesn't mean that they, or any other company, can stand still.

 

Mike, I know you weren't getting at Ben and you're not wrong - there have been some Heljan products over past years that have left me thinking "why didn't you do such and such, just as easy to get right as wrong" but I know Ben is making a difference but it takes a time for the developmental changes to filter through the process. I've not done all the exploratory stuff on the 25 yet but I know there's some significant differences which are a signpost of changes to come in other products inside it. Ben and I plan to have a chat about the 47 which will have a more advanced approach to features and functions for the next virtual show on 13/14 March. He's definitely not standing still.

[adb968008]

At EP stage errors are welcomed.

At delivery stage we are called moaners.

 

thats a bit unfair.

errors are errors at any stage.

Nice to see the bogie holes are bogey holes we were suckered into and spat out.

  It will still need the cab steps on the bogie changing, its got a shortened Peak style frame shortened to 2 steps, not 3 as modelled. Thats forgivable imho, 24/25 steps / sandboxes were a minefield and only for the devoted.
 

I do however come to this thread armed, prepared and ready to model.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

I do however come to this thread armed, prepared and ready to model.

 

I would have to take issue with that assessment on the basis your glue has not been neatly squeezed from the bottom and the excess tube rolled up 

 

 

[adb968008]

15 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

I would have to take issue with that assessment on the basis your glue has not been neatly squeezed from the bottom and the excess tube rolled up 

 

 

Failed to pass muster sir...

 

truth be known that ones an empty tube 

Edited February 12, 2021 by adb968008

[AY Mod]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

At delivery stage we are called moaners.

 

I understand the perspective when someone raises an issue at CAD or EP stage, it's the ones who turn up with their pork pies and popcorn to parade their knowledge and decry a project when it's too late that cause the issue.

[adb968008]

10 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I understand the perspective when someone raises an issue at CAD or EP stage, it's the ones who turn up with their pork pies and popcorn to parade their knowledge and decry a project when it's too late that cause the issue.

couldn't say it better myself

 

i do try, to be constructive..

 

Though even at EP stage feedback can be uncomfortably received.

 

on 25102 specifically I didnt know it existed until the post the other day, but as said then, its mostly fixable and wont prevent me buying...indeed having something extra to do, is a challenge/ part of the fun.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by adb968008

[Barry O]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I understand the perspective when someone raises an issue at CAD or EP stage, it's the ones who turn up with their pork pies and popcorn to parade their knowledge and decry a project when it's too late that cause the issue.

and those who are oblivious to problems with a new model as  "it doesn't matter"..

[47164]

Per Andy and the admin, please give Heljan a break, take a step back to look at what they have achieved in the uk ...0 gauge for the masses and a great  run of the unique locos, kestrel/ lion/ falcon class 128 to name a few , all of which I very much would have seen the light of day from Hornby or Bachmann,  and ok there has been the odd hiccups in the learning curve but we have all been there. 

[Roy Langridge]

42 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I understand the perspective when someone raises an issue at CAD or EP stage, it's the ones who turn up with their pork pies and popcorn to parade their knowledge and decry a project when it's too late that cause the issue.

 

Heljan don't help themselves here. Ben said if we saw things wrong give feedback, which we did. The problem is that we got zero feedback on what was actually fixed so the first we get to know if anything has been done with that feedback is when we see the final model. I think it only natural that people will then express what has / has not been fixed.

 

Had Heljan said we are fixing this, but this won't be fixed we would have known what to expect.

Roy

Edited February 12, 2021 by Roy Langridge

[Global]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I understand the perspective when someone raises an issue at CAD or EP stage, it's the ones who turn up with their pork pies and popcorn to parade their knowledge and decry a project when it's too late that cause the issue.

With what you say in mind it would be interesting to know what are the best channels to communicate these issues to Heljan?

 

For example, are we saying the 47 is at a stage now where they can correct the issues like the depth of grills and the body side windows that appear to be to low? Or is it to late and it’s going to go the same way as the 25 and 45 before it?

 

If it’s the latter I’ll know to cancel my preorders now - which is surely fairer for the retailers concerned who can better judge the number they order beforehand - rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?
 

I’m not expecting Accurascale levels of communication from them, but it would be nice if sometimes they could give a bit of idea of what they’re looking at changing. I guess it’s just borne out of frustration that these mistakes keep being made and something so obvious that a 30 second google search would show up. 

[Crisis Rail]

On 12/02/2021 at 10:23, Roy Langridge said:

 

Heljan don't help themselves here. Ben said if we saw things wrong give feedback, which we did. The problem is that we got zero feedback on what was actually fixed so the first we get to know if anything has been done with that feedback is when we see the final model. I think it only natural that people will then express what has / has not been fixed.

 

Had Heljan said we are fixing this, but this won't be fixed we would have known what to expect.

Roy

 

Sensible post Roy.

 

It's just grates when it comes down to the whiney nit-picking .

[Crisis Rail]

On 12/02/2021 at 14:57, Global said:

With what you say in mind it would be interesting to know what are the best channels to communicate these issues to Heljan?

 

For example, are we saying the 47 is at a stage now where they can correct the issues like the depth of grills and the body side windows that appear to be to low? Or is it to late and it’s going to go the same way as the 25 and 45 before it?

 

If it’s the latter I’ll know to cancel my preorders now - which is surely fairer for the retailers concerned who can better judge the number they order beforehand - rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?
 

I’m not expecting Accurascale levels of communication from them, but it would be nice if sometimes they could give a bit of idea of what they’re looking at changing. I guess it’s just borne out of frustration that these mistakes keep being made and something so obvious that a 30 second google search would show up. 

 

So you would consider returning a model that may have negligible inaccuracies?

We've come a long long way since Lima.

[aureol40012]

On 12/02/2021 at 14:57, Global said:

With what you say in mind it would be interesting to know what are the best channels to communicate these issues to Heljan?

 

For example, are we saying the 47 is at a stage now where they can correct the issues like the depth of grills and the body side windows that appear to be to low? Or is it to late and it’s going to go the same way as the 25 and 45 before it?

 

If it’s the latter I’ll know to cancel my preorders now - which is surely fairer for the retailers concerned who can better judge the number they order beforehand - rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?
 

I’m not expecting Accurascale levels of communication from them, but it would be nice if sometimes they could give a bit of idea of what they’re looking at changing. I guess it’s just borne out of frustration that these mistakes keep being made and something so obvious that a 30 second google search would show up. 

“rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?”

 

Are you being serious?  You wouldn’t have a leg to stand on and I’d be telling you which stop to get off at if I were your retailer.

[Roy Langridge]

25 minutes ago, aureol40012 said:

“rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?”

 

Are you being serious?  You wouldn’t have a leg to stand on and I’d be telling you which stop to get off at if I were your retailer.

If ordered online you would have no say in it. I can return an item and not even have to give a reason for doing so. 
 

Roy

[Crisis Rail]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

If ordered online you would have no say in it. I can return an item and not even have to give a reason for doing so. 
 

Roy

True Roy. Returned for a less discerning modeller to have a chance at owning. More so on a limited edition basis. 

[96701]

Oooo popcorn at the ready. Oh, by the way, if you wish to have a discussion about Class 47s from Heljan, could you have it on the appropriate forum? I'm wanting to see news of the Class 25.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 hours ago, 96701 said:

Oooo popcorn at the ready. Oh, by the way, if you wish to have a discussion about Class 47s from Heljan, could you have it on the appropriate forum? I'm wanting to see news of the Class 25.

 

 

It's the same argument with the numbers changed.

 

Mike.

[The Ghost of IKB]

46 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It's the same argument with the numbers changed.

 

Mike.

That statement is true of 95% of threads here, and yet we never get tired of arguing.  Thank goodness none of us have access to the nuclear launch codes,  a pre emptive nuclear strike on denmark because of 0.5mm of misplaced plastic would be a real possibility. Or should i say CERTAINTY!