DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[JSpencer]

I think we may be over reacting to his announcement. Yes this is an internal affaire and we have zero need to know about this stuff but in summary his announcement was:

section 1: the trials and tribulations he encountered running his firm (from his perspective)

section 2: the action he took to try and ensure no one else can sell his products

section 3: his thoughts on what all this IP stuff COULD mean. And the word could appearing near the start of the section.

 

A sort Eureka moment, except it wasn't that had everyone, myself included, saying " what the hell is he on about?" 

[JSpencer]

,

Edited May 3, 2019 by JSpencer
Duplicate post - ruddy cloud tech!

[JSpencer]

" 

Edited May 3, 2019 by JSpencer

[Edwardian]

... it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[truffy]

5 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

It is, a bit. But if you scroll to the top of the page you'll see a big red "Ignore this topic" button. Click on it, and it won't be tiring you any more.

Au contraire. It still crops up in higher levels of the forum!

[James Makin]

Wow, a rollercoaster of a thread that taken a long time to catch up on! 

 

Keeping out of the subjective debate and focusing objectively on the important issues (i.e. my own Class 92 pre orders!!) - was it my imagination or did Dave say somewhere that he had retailers on board here to help with the Class 92 crowdfunding?

 

I was hoping that ideally despite the unfolding PR disaster that somehow our models may still be safe if some cash-rich retailers are putting their money in, to counteract any of the understandable cancellations of the original crowdfunders! 

 

Having seen the truly gorgeous competing product, my own game plan is to continue to pay the further payments for these DJM 92s, then dump them out onto eBay once released rather than cancelling and losing my deposit completely...avoid cutting one’s nose off etcs..!

 

Cheers,

James 

 

 

[royaloak]

3 minutes ago, James Makin said:

Having seen the truly gorgeous competing product, my own game plan is to continue to pay the further payments for these DJM 92s, then dump them out onto eBay once released rather than cancelling and losing my deposit completely...avoid cutting one’s nose off etcs..!

Are you really that optimistic that you think DJM will deliver your 92s bearing in mind most of the other crowd-funders wont be making any more payments, so how is DJM to secure the funding to take any of the projects forward and onto fruition?

[James Makin]

Just now, royaloak said:

Are you really that optimistic that you think DJM will deliver your 92s bearing in mind most of the other crowd-funders wont be making any more payments, so how is DJM to secure the funding to take any of the projects forward and onto fruition?

 

Well, that’s exactly my thoughts! 

 

I just had this memory of reading about the retailers funding some of it, either in one of the infamous embargo newsletters or in some throwaway postings on a forum...can’t find it right now though!

 

Quite rightly I’d imagine many individuals cancelling but if there are some selected retailers actually funding some element, then they perhaps may make more objective decisions and potentially save the 92 project even if many original individual crowdfunders have already pulled out.

 

It’s all a bit of a gamble though, ultimately I’m only £60 deposit down but as the gambling advert warnings always say “when the fun stops, stop” 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chris p bacon]

19 minutes ago, James Makin said:

Quite rightly I’d imagine many individuals cancelling but if there are some selected retailers actually funding some element, then they perhaps may make more objective decisions and potentially save the 92 project even if many original individual crowdfunders have already pulled out.

 

It’s all a bit of a gamble though, ultimately I’m only £60 deposit down but as the gambling advert warnings always say “when the fun stops, stop” 

 

From a business perspective, I wouldn't want to increase my holding in a venture that has a competitor with a proven track record already further ahead. 

 

If DJM thought he'd been given a hard time so far then it's going to get even harder now.  He could seek his own funding to finish one of the ongoing projects, but I remember him posting that he wasn't even looking to make a profit from the APT. It was a ridiculous statement to make and at the time I thought it was made to make him look more like an altruistic modeller rather than a business (profit being a dirty word to some).

 

One way forward for DJM could be to partner up with someone who is trusted and more skilled in negotiation and business, and who could unravel whatever has happened with the 'lost' tooling.  This might throw DJM a lifeline, so long as he doesn't continue to write the press releases himself. 

[Darius43]

3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

One way forward for DJM could be to partner up with someone who is trusted and more skilled in negotiation and business, and who could unravel whatever has happened with the 'lost' tooling.  This might throw DJM a lifeline, so long as he doesn't continue to write the press releases himself. 

 

That presupposes that someone who is trusted and more skilled in negotiation and business would even want a piece of this action.

 

Darius

[John M Upton]

The words 'poisoned' and 'chalice' spring to mind....

[d9002]

I really do not recall any of the retailers "getting on board" for the DJM Class 92 project ....yes, Digitrains are tied in with the N Gauge "King" which was the only way (it seems) that one has managed to progress to the tooling stage.

 

[JSpencer]

9 hours ago, James Makin said:

Wow, a rollercoaster of a thread that taken a long time to catch up on! 

 

Keeping out of the subjective debate and focusing objectively on the important issues (i.e. my own Class 92 pre orders!!) - was it my imagination or did Dave say somewhere that he had retailers on board here to help with the Class 92 crowdfunding?

 

I was hoping that ideally despite the unfolding PR disaster that somehow our models may still be safe if some cash-rich retailers are putting their money in, to counteract any of the understandable cancellations of the original crowdfunders! 

 

Having seen the truly gorgeous competing product, my own game plan is to continue to pay the further payments for these DJM 92s, then dump them out onto eBay once released rather than cancelling and losing my deposit completely...avoid cutting one’s nose off etcs..!

 

Cheers,

James 

 

 

 

He put it out to retailers a good 2+ years ago to make up the gap in orders to complete the numbers required to push the product forwards. Hattons has a few other livery options on their website. I suspect this will be the normal retail process meaning DJM will need to deliver a physical product first and they will pay an invoice later so I doubt any are stamping up cash ahead.

since the two years, did he get extra crowdfunders on board to close the gap? Or does he have resources to close the gap? No idea. 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by JSpencer

[Colin_McLeod]

19 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It's not libellous if he hasn't named the other party, I don't think it is correct to say people know who he is directing that comment at, I dont know.

 

The other party does not have to be named if a reasonable deduction could be made as to their identity.  For example If I said something libellous about Andy York, it would not be a defence that I had not named him if my statement refered only to the "manager of a well known railway modelling forum linked to a leading model railway magazine in Britain"  

[Edwardian]

I don't enjoy the thought of anyone's business suffering, or collapsing; quite the reverse.  I try to be impersonal when referring to this manufacturer, but, as with many of the smaller businesses, there is an individual behind it and so, when things go wrong, it is an individual who suffers. On a personal level this is sad to see. Though there is undeniably something darkly comic, not to say karmic, about the self-destructive press-release (perhaps we choose to laugh rather than cringe?), actually, that's pretty sad, too.

 

I'm not going to be a hypocrite about this, however.  I come to bury DJ Models, not to praise it. This is a manufacturer that started with claims that it could raise the standard and make better models than everyone else.  While from the first that struck me as something of a hostage to fortune, I welcomed the aspiration and took DJ Models at face value.

 

Then, from my perspective as a pre-Nationalisation modeller, nothing happened. The two projects in which I was interested - the Hattons King (I believe I still have at least six on pre-order) and the Hudswell Clarke (which could have been a scoop as the first small industrial steam type to hit the market) came to nothing.

 

I then began to learn that this was a designer who, from his track record, was actually unlikely to achieve the advertised superior standards, even if product eventually saw the light of day.  There were a succession of models within my periods of interest that I would happily have bought if they'd been up to scratch.  In terms of performance, or accuracy, or both this appeared doubtful; I have no use for mechanically unreliable or poor performing locomotives, locomotives with missing ash pans, locomotives with superfluous splashers, coaches so replete with inaccuracies that even underframes are in mirror image of the prototype.   

 

In the event, the claims of setting superior standards seem to have been empty hubris, and there does seem to be a lack of realism, not to say self-awareness, in a lot of the public pronouncements I've since seen.

 

So, to be quite frank, for quite some time I have wished not to see announcements from this manufacturer, because I would rather not have a model of a prototype in which I am interested designed by DJ Models, as it would probably never see the light of day and be wrong if it did.  A damning, but, believe me, reluctant conclusion.  It may be that one or two good models have seen the light of day - the reviews did not give the J94 unqualified praise, but it seemed to me to be a pretty decent model.  There may have been some good D&E stuff made, but that's beyond my ken. If so, it is a very great shame that more of this standard was never achieved, and I really feel for the crowdfunders. From my perspective, however, everything in my areas of interest touched by this manufacturer either never saw the light of day or was flawed.  I don't see that changing.

 

It seems that I am hardly alone in preferring alternatives to a DJ Models product. Hattons went it alone with the P and the Barclay. Kernow air-brushed its erstwhile collaborator out of the GW Steam Railcar publicity.

 

So, harsh though I realise this sounds, if we see no more DJ Models products and no more designs from this stable, I simply cannot honestly see this as a loss to the hobby.

 

I, therefore, think the kindest advice I've read in these many pages was that to get out on the best terms possible and find something else to do.

 

 

   

[d9002]

I am frankly astounded that he has not made a further announcement by now.....

[JSpencer]

5 minutes ago, d9002 said:

I am frankly astounded that he has not made a further announcement by now.....

 

He did a clarification statement a day later saying he was not blocking others from doing the same.

[Markwj]

You can still preorder djm class 92's at hattons but I would expect it will be payment on delivery but after his first message where it appears he had a go at retailers who previously commissioned models from him I can't see any retailer giving him money in advance of goods arriving.

[d9002]

9 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

He did a clarification statement a day later saying he was not blocking others from doing the same.

Thanks....aware of that ...what I meant was that he must surely be aware by now of the repercussions of his statement and clarification, yet does not seem to be doing anything to reassurre his investors that they will receive a return for their investment ?

[chris p bacon]

2 minutes ago, d9002 said:

Thanks....aware of that ...what I meant was that he must surely be aware by now of the repercussions of his statement and clarification, yet does not seem to be doing anything to reassurre his investors that they will receive a return for their investment ?

 

To be realistic what could DJM actually do ? Issue another press release ? who would believe it?

[d9002]

"Crispy" - a valid point

[Mike Harvey]

Just now, d9002 said:

Thanks....aware of that ...what I meant was that he must surely be aware by now of the repercussions of his statement and clarification, yet does not seem to be doing anything to reassurre his investors that they will receive a return for their investment ?

 

I do not think it would help to offer reassurance without some factual substance to support that. Not sure how that would be presented. A direct email message to each crowdfunder might need to include a explanation as to why reassurance might be required, which would just widen the net of people reading the 1 May 2019 announcement and push the message total here towards 2000.

[Clearwater]

If i was a retailer with some cash to invest but perhaps not quite the balance sheet and risk appetite of Kernow, Hattons or Rail to take on a full production run, the idea of say investing a low tens of thousands of pounds in a developer who can do the CADs and factory liaison might be attractive.  But I wouldn’t want a retail margin, I’d want my share of the full equity upside proportionate to my cash investment.  

[stock_2007]

I've read through 31 pages of what ever this is and I'm still none the wiser just what the new loco is everyone is talking about?

[Edwardian]

Just now, stock_2007 said:

I've read through 31 pages of what ever this is and I'm still none the wiser 

 

No, but at least you are better informed.