RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said: As to when and how Bachmann will do this exactly, only Bachmann know. And even then they will not be predicting when the model goes into production, although we'll certainly be asking, continually and annoyingly. It seems to me to be an acceptance of the realpolitik that Bachmann are out of control of their lead times, and not entirely due to their own actions. Problem for them is that, if a lead time becomes extended, it is more vulnerable to outside causes that delay it further, with the result that the more an item is delayed, the costlier it's development becomes and the less certain you can be of providing it to the market at a given time. And all the time they're constantly badgered by us on sites like this and at shows. The new way of doing things makes a lot of sense for them, in that they have foiled criticism of models announced and delayed. 3 months is after production has started and shipping booked, so you can be reasonably confident about when the models will turn up; this is never 100%, mind. Modern tracking methods can tell you exactly where the container is, but not how long it might take to get to Barwell. We have yet to see how the system works further back down the time line, but I would be very surprised if CAD drawings are not published before the final decision to use them to produce the models is signed off, on the understanding that this is not a delivery promise or even an estimate of availability. As I've intimated before, this is fine for us cognesiti, but may need to be explained better to newbies; first impressions count! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, The Johnster said: As I've intimated before, this is fine for us cognesiti, but may need to be explained better to newbies; first impressions count! Too often the newbies are only here to find out timescales for an RTR product, and too idle (aka instant gratification) to find and plough through relevant threads. [Not much better was the member - nearly 9 years and a magnificent three posts to his name before last week - who wanted to use RMweb to beat a cottage-industrialist over the head. A helpful mod assisted behind the scenes. But when other members pointed out that use of heavy type was akin to shouting, he became abusive.] 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 As I understand it, one place where new models will be announced is in the "OO Scale Works Report" in the Bachmann Times when the new model reaches a certain stage in the production process maybe, for instance, when it reaches the "Engineering Sample" stage after which you would be able to trace its journey through the "Livery Artwork" ,"Livery Samples", "In Production" and "On Their Way" stages in subsequent issues of the Bachmann Times. Once the model has reached the "On Their Way" stage I would presume that the model would then appear in the next quarterly "British Railway Announcements" and, within the following three months, the model would then appear at your favourite dealer. Following this procedure I would assume that it would take up to two years which would be ample time to make comments on the build, decide whether or not you want one, pre-order one from your favourite dealer and put some pennies in the money box. So, one way of knowing what's happening as it happens and watch the above is to join the Bachmann Collectors Club just as I did many, many moons ago soon after the club was founded (and as such have a 3-digit membership number). Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Hilux5972 said: Ok so if I’m reading the Bachmann website correctly, there is no 2020 Bachmann catalogue this year, just a combined volume of all Bachmann’s various ranges which will not include any new announcements. These will be announced exclusively first in the new collectors club magazine supplement called British Railways Announcements? Yes Minister, it an announcement telling us that there will be announcements in the Club magazine about when the announcements of delays to the previously announced availability dates are to be announced. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) Fine, but as a customer who chooses not to be bothered by the constant offers that I'm not interested in with membership of Bachmann Collectors' Club, which sounds like something a schoolboy might be interested in, but is a pre-requisite to receipt of the Bachmann Times where this information will be disseminated, my only guide is the online catalogue. This used to be available as a web page you could bookmark, but this now comes up as not existing. The catalogue still exists, though, on the Bachmann Europe website, and is a bit reticent regarding on the subject of availability, by which I mean that the listings show items in stock, with an RRP, or out of stock with an RRP, or out of stock with an RRP of £0.00. My possibly incorrect interpretation of this is that an item in stock with an RRP is available from dealers at the current time at that RRP (or less if you're lucky). An item out of stock with an RRP is somewhere in the pipeline for future release, but not in the next 3 months, and an item out of stock with an RRP of zero is not even on the horizon yet. But it could mean that stock has been exhausted and there is an intention to commission another production run; we are not considered worthy of being privvy to the information until 3 months before the release to market. In fact, a picture of a product which is out of stock and unpriced could mean anything you want it to mean! In practice those who contribute here and on similar forums who are Collectors' Club members will be happy to keep us posted, but this is no use to newbies who rely on the information published by the company and do not know how to 'read' the drip feed that we are given. It is, I might think if I were a cynical type, a ploy to increase membership of the Collectors' Club at £32 a pop, a way of charging us to obtain information which we should be able to get from free publications (such as the online catalogue). I am unlikely to attend the big shows or their VIP areas, and am not interested in a wagon in my scale in the Club livery unless I can guarantee it is a type that I can cobble up into something I can use on a 1950s WR South Wales BLT; £32 for a 7 planker i've got to repaint is a bit steep even for Bachmann! If anything, such jiggerypokery is increasing my resistance to the idea of joining the Club. A lot will be forgiven when I have my grubby little paws on a new 94xx early BR, but just now I'm getting a bit irritated with Bachmann's manipulation of and apparent disdain towards their customers. They seem to be copying Apple, whose contempt for their customers is legendary (but in no way mythical!) but who maintain brand loyalty with quality products. It's a risky strategy; just watch what your brand-faithful customers do when somebody does the same thing and starts treating the unwashed masses a bit better, or undercuts on price without sacrificing quality! Edited February 9, 2020 by The Johnster 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 ^^^………… no need to be quite so facetious about the collectors club. I was in it for several years and the mag was a good read. The steam era wagon we got each year was sold to offset the cost. the reason I stopped is simply that, other than a few excellent new products ( class 90/ 158 ), I feel they are being increasingly left behind and I cannot see myself getting anymore 37/47/66 from them. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) Where have Bachmann said that they will be only releasing info on new tooling via the collectors club? They have said that they will announce models later in the process. If the 94XX was announced under the new system, the earliest we would have heard about it would be March 2019, when the first EP was put on show for the first time. http://news.Bachmann.co.uk/2019/03/latest-developments-on-show-at-alexandra-palace/ If I were to guess when new tooling is announced, here are the likely times: At the launch of a future Combined Volume Catalogue At a big event such as Warley or similar However, given the change of when in the process models are announced, I wouldn't expect any new tooling to be announced this year and probably next year as well. Edited February 9, 2020 by Paul.Uni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 TBH, I find the whole idea of joining a manufacturer’s collectors’ club a bit of an anathema. Although I do collect rolling stock to some extent, it largely conforms to a specific era/region, not a specific producer. I would think that Bachmann’s self-interest is best served by reaching as wide an audience as possible, not limiting their reach to their fan base. I’m sure they’re on top of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 My understanding is that the Collectors’ Club magazine will continue to trace the path through the planning and production process of models already announced. New tooling will not be mentioned anywhere until the models are due to appear within the three-month period beginning with the issue of the magazine accompanied by the new releases leaflet. I should think that the enjoyable Works Report in the magazine will slowly wind down as models make their way through the system. We shall only hear about new toolings a maximum of three months before they are available to buy. I assume, therefore, that by the time we hear about a new model, production will be well under way and it will be too late to change anything. In all fairness, Bachmann is usually fairly reliable. In the unfortunate case of the Modified Hall class, the absence of a fire iron tunnel was not picked up until after release, nor was the error between the frames at the front in the later models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted February 9, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: I'm getting a bit irritated with Bachmann's manipulation of and apparent disdain towards their customers. Now you're just making things up to believe in (and repeat regularly in the hope that others will believe the same gospel). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, truffy said: TBH, I find the whole idea of joining a manufacturer’s collectors’ club a bit of an anathema. Although I do collect rolling stock to some extent, it largely conforms to a specific era/region, not a specific producer. I would think that Bachmann’s self-interest is best served by reaching as wide an audience as possible, not limiting their reach to their fan base. I’m sure they’re on top of that. I totally beg to differ, and with Johnster as well. The announcement is on the website BTW. https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/hierarchy/articles/announcements/ I joined the Collectors Club as I wanted a specific model which I would not have got otherwise. Since then they have released a few more that I wanted. XP64 Class 47. LMS liveried 08. NCB brake van. etc. Niche items that would probably never be released as main range items. I remember the old Heljan XP64 and they were on the shelves for years. I've also got the Lima version which will be getting a repaint or sold on. If you are expecting M&GNR locomotives in 1920 condition then it's not for you. But for most people it's great. You'll get something you want over the course of a couple of years. I do find it a bit offensive to say it's just for children or "collectors". I am neither. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 The complexity of what is being discussed in recent posts defeats me. So what? The only date that counts for anything at all is the date the product is on the shelf ready to be bought. Bachmann seem to be pulling out all the stops to make that sooner rather than later. Big tick, Barwell! 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 It is a long time since I was a schoolboy, but I am a member of the Bachmann Collectors Club and for me it is money well spent. Others of course may disagree, and that is entirely their prerogative, although I am not sure how a non-member can be so knowledgeable about it to voice their utter disdain for the Club, and by extension its members. And BTW, information about Bachmann's products can be found in other places than the catalogue and the Collectors Club magazine; There is this amazing new thing these days called the internet ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, AY Mod said: Now you're just making things up to believe in (and repeat regularly in the hope that others will believe the same gospel). Justifiable chastisement Andy, got a bit carried away with the rant. This is how religions get started... 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB&SCR 337 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hmmm I would have hoped for Bachmann to do something caley. But a C class for £170 in black. Not for me I have 3 already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Justifiable chastisement Andy, got a bit carried away with the rant. This is how religions get started... It’s the weather combined with yesterday’s defeat in Dublin.What sized hairshirt do you fit ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2020 Anybody got any word on the Caley 812 through Rails ? It used to show up in the works report when I got the mag,. I know ~rails were at Bachmann last week but there don’t seem to be any updates on their website Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, LB&SCR 337 said: Hmmm I would have hoped for Bachmann to do something caley. But a C class for £170 in black. Not for me I have 3 already. Sunshine liveried ones still available at Rails for £62!!! I'm usually someone who defends model railway prices but the RRP of £200 for this latest C makes me scratch my head, if costs have become that high for them perhaps it is time to change manufacturer? If it's a "because we can" price tag then good luck to them, I think they're mad but I don't run a business! (I'll wait for the sale, I don't suspect it is going to fly off the shelves... ) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: Sunshine liveried ones still available at Rails for £62!!! I'm usually someone who defends model railway prices but the RRP of £200 for this latest C makes me scratch my head, if costs have become that high for them perhaps it is time to change manufacturer? If it's a "because we can" price tag then good luck to them, I think they're mad but I don't run a business! (I'll wait for the sale, I don't suspect it is going to fly off the shelves... ) Changing factories isn't really an option for Bachmann as they use the factury owned/used buy their parent Kader so they are in a hard place when it comes to prices. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Legend said: Anybody got any word on the Caley 812 through Rails ? It used to show up in the works report when I got the mag,. I know ~rails were at Bachmann last week but there don’t seem to be any updates on their website According the the works report in the recent Bachmann Times, an EP has been received or is due soon. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 The brake van is, I believe, the Mainline version except for couplings and their mountings and the wheels. The spare parts issue is not confined to Bachmann; modern production methods mean that a run of a prescribed number of locos produces the exact required numbers of parts needed to assemble that exact number of locos; there are no spares. Even when identical parts are used on different locos, for instance EE bogies common to 37, 50, and 55, the production run system mean that parts cannot be swapped between runs of different models, even when the only difference is the livery! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said: It’s the weather combined with yesterday’s defeat in Dublin.What sized hairshirt do you fit ? It’s a hairshirt, one size fits all, badly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: The tooling costs were paid off long ago with these, Really so how about storing and maintain the tools? See what LGB are doing with tooling from the 70’s and still charging the same for. Part of the way you make profit is to get return over the longest period of time. It’s also reducing the risk on newer models and making the company stronger. Cavalex has to drop the 91 because they couldn’t take a risk on it because they don’t have the financial muscle, Bachmann are experimenting in new areas with “never viable“ products like the Blue Pullman and narrow gauge while answering to a global parent company that isn’t about just enthusiasm. You may not like it but that’s manufacturing reality 4 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: Bachmann have also shown in recent years that they are a very backwards company with things such as no social media presence So how did you know about the releases and what are you discussing it on? 4 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: They really are a dinosaur company that are really struggling to keep with the times and the industry. With the biggest stand at Warley and one of the biggest sections here . . . 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted February 9, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, AlexHolt said: The prices seem to be a just because we can price. Prices are determined by costs plus margins, not just the cost of sale (manufacture) but fixed and variable overheads. Unless you know the value of all of those elements combined you can't make the statement you have, it's just an opinion without any basis in fact. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: See what LGB are doing with tooling from the 70’s and still charging the same for. 1968 tooling 2019 tooling apart from the valve gear and roof there’s no difference 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now