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Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild


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11 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I can understand your sentiments:  However, I went to that same show and loved it, as did my travelling companions, all of whom are 60+ and think the world ended when steam was abolished on the BR(W).  What you might have been too blinkered to see because of the shock of RTR and  loud DCC sound was the incredible enthusiasm that was being generated. (I just turned my ear trumpets down a bit.)

 

I was sad when this years show was cancelled, but am looking forward to the substitute on line show  they are planning.

 

As you can see,  7mm modelling is very much changing, one might say it is fragmenting into factions, with MIOG, the S7 crowd as examples of where the G0G  really dropped the ball,  by not trying to capture these elements  and use them  to help revitalise the Guild.

 

As it stands, they are lost to the cause, and in the case of MIOG, will continue to attract a younger generation to whom the steam era holds no interest.

 

The other point that may be of some relevance is the MIOG appears to be a group run without membership fees. (At least, I can't find any information on such via their website.)

 

I would agree. Lots of happy younger modellers really enjoying what they were doing.

 

I am not blinkered. I am always happy to try something new and if I like it, I will do it again. I found the balance of layouts (85% Identikit Depot planks) and the operation (running light engines pointlessly up and down as loudly as possible) were not to my liking and the battering my ears took as each depot layout tried to drown the next one out was just not my thing! That doesn't make it good or bad, just not to my taste.

 

If that is how people want to model, that is fine and good luck to them. If not liking such a show makes me "blinkered" then so be it. I will wear the badge with pride!

 

I am not and never have been anti anything non steam. My trainspotting days were the 70s and put me in front of a Deltic or a Western and I go all gooey! Several Class 40s and 20s all whistling at high volume was not something I ever liked in real life and I certainly don't on a model! 

 

 

Edited by t-b-g
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6 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I can ask a question here and have a fair chance of a useful answer within a week, I can’t see the GOG forum so why would I join just to see it? Like some others do maybe an open forum section for layouts but restricting the more technical skills and trade news sections to members gives a way in that people can then be invited to local group meets and see what else it can offer?

 

The S4Soc Website allows non-members to view the discussion forum (thus learning about P4 in the process) but not post in specific sections; however non-members can place posts in a guest section.  Appears to work very well, helps people to learn and also promotes the openness of the Society.  Win-win.

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3 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The S4Soc Website allows non-members to view the discussion forum (thus learning about P4 in the process) but not post in specific sections; however non-members can place posts in a guest section.  Appears to work very well, helps people to learn and also promotes the openness of the Society.  Win-win.

 

I have no connection to the leadership of the Guild and wouldn't know them if they were standing in front of me but hopefully somebody who does know the right people will put the suggestion forward. It sounds highly practical and probably easy to do.

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A very interesting discussion, difficult to know what it's like to be a member unless you are but some of these posts do give an idea.

 

As a parallel I have modelled in EM for more than 30 years but didn't join the EMGS until about 10 years ago. I felt no need for all the instruction sheets and technical manual etc. but when I was finally persuaded to attend a local meeting by a friend I was glad I had gone. Attending the area group every month and manning the group's demonstration stand at exhibitions are my primary reasons for membership - of course you need your group to be friendly and welcoming, which mine was, fortunately. And the demonstration stand is to 'sell' your modelling philosophy in a friendly and 'can do' way, not spend the whole day working on an etched kit and look up grumpily if someone asks you something. So I suppose it's all down to being friendly and welcoming in everything that it does. If it's not it needs to change.

 

A coup is certainly possible by the way - it happened with my Classic Car club some years ago and it's much more forward thinking and inclusive now.

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I've been a member for a number of years and through the Guild have benefitted from the help of a number of individuals - something that should not be overlooked in the current debate as none of this would have happened otherwise:

  • I can only solder brass because of the large amount of time given freely by a gentleman called Pete - I forget his surname - who organised a 1/2 day clinic at Telford some years ago.
  • the late Bob Alderman - who was chair of the Technical Committee of the Gauge O Guild at the time - gave me all sorts of help when I was starting.
  • Fred Lewis who is a local GOG rep and organises the NEWGOG show has been a constant source of support and "encouragement".

Just my thoughts...

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I was a member of the GOG for a few years, 30 odd years ago. At the time the only rtr models were from Lima, there was no internet and many of the small trader only advertised in the guild magazine

 

I have bought a few O gauge items over the last few months and there are some new items announced that interest me that I hope to purchase, but I haven't really thought about joining the GOG again. It is now possible to but a wide range of rtr locos and stock, track, buildings, working signals and scenic items simply from a 'box-shifters' website. Mainstream magazine advertise a wide variety of those products as well as carrying reviews of many of them. They also regularly feature O gauge layouts. The internet can be used to fill any product knowledge gaps. Forums such as RMweb have a wealth of information and people knowledgeable about almost all aspects of modelling who can step in and give guidance if sort. 

 

Someone mentioned G1MRA who I belonged to about 20 years ago which was a great source of information. I found the people within G1MRA, without exception, to be friendly and welcoming . I feel the area groups and local meetups were a particularly valuable part of the membership

 

To sum up, I don't think most OO gauge models belong to a specific OO gauge society/guild and I'm not sure why O gauge modelers would want or need to join the GOG for similar reasons. For the GOG to grow and flourish it needs a USP which is sufficiently attractive to appeal both to help keep existing members, and attract new one?

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I did consider joining in the mid 1990s. But then I had a major change in my life, when I returned to the hobby I went back to 4mm instead.

 

Still have the 7mm items though. Only about a dozen kits from Slaters, Parkside, Connoisseur, etc and a couple of locomotives.

 

What did attract me to possibly join was the fact it did seem a bit "elitist". Something to aspire to. Very little RTR and most of the people seemed to be modellers of the highest standards. But it was things like the information in the handbooks and the Gazette that was of interest, not the social life.

 

 

 

Jason

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I was a member for over 30 years but did not renew my membership this year because I got sick and tired of the same few people on the forum. 

I joined my local group when it was first announced and was told at my first meeting by an old boy who was in charge that I had to bring something along every month to contribute to the group.

I took something along like I was told for 5 years and in that time the old boy in charge only ever produced 1 single wagon. When I left I use to see members at Guild shows and was asked why I no longer attended. 

When I look back on my working life most of the reasons I left my employment for a new post was usually because of some obnoxious person being in charge. I was once given a post that I didn't want where I had to deal with people face to face. What that told me there you meet some of the most helpful and kind people and some of the most horrible humans possible. I once addressed an old lady as dear, but later got a reprimand of my superior form being  to familiar. The old lady had said to me that it had made her day to be addressed so lovingly.

There I think is the problem with the Guild, people, human beings. Wasn't it Groucho Marx who said that I don't want to be a member of any club that would admit me.

Edited by airnimal
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To follow up my earlier post...

 

6 hours ago, 81A Oldoak said:

 

Indeed. The G0G is the only club I know where the members proudly display their membership number as a symbol of their seniority. A four-figure membership number seems to denote a demi-god status deserving the genuflection of the callow youths in their 60s.

 

 

You should try amateur dramatics societies! There you find people wearing NODA badges indicating "years of service" (ie being involved with a society).  Said person could have no discernable talents, make no observable contribution, in fact could simply be a cantankerous critic of everything and everyone, but if they pay their annual membership fees for long enough they hit those "milestones" - 10, 15, 25, 40, 50, 60 or whatever years of membership - and get their badge plus an assumed attitude of expecting reverence for their "achievement"... I have acted as Musical Director for a number of different societies since 1995 (so for a quarter of a century) with over 60 full productions, numerous nominations and awards, yet I will never be nominated for a NODA "service" badge nor even have that dedication to the 'hobby' recognised!  

 

3 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

It is probably worth pointing out for the sake of clarity that the Gauge 0 Guild does NOT have any branches or affiliated clubs.

 

 

Thank you for that clarification.  As far as I am aware, the place I went to is a monthly GoG meeting, so my apologies if I called it a local branch but that is the perception, although it is just a group of members coming together.  I also agree that my experience may well be atypical, but the call was for impressions and so that is what I gave.

 

The Telford exhibition I attended did have more of a "buzz" but I suppose that is natural when lots of people interested in the same thing get together (look at a football crowd, for example).  The average age thing again was my perception - and I am not a spring chicken either, although not yet one of Broadoak's "callow youths"! LOL

 

I have met and continue to meet helpful, friendly and knowledgeable modellers in my local model shop, where all points of view and interests are both encouraged and tolerated (each to their own!). My dad's models need some work beyond my skillset to get them up to scratch - asking at the GoG members' meeting got disdainful comments, despite being willing to pay for time/expertise; the person who took on the repairs at the shop has become a friend, and certainly it has become a labour of love as he strives to bring the locos back to working condition (and not just because I am paying him) - his determination to solve issues with the 4-4-0 compound loco goes beyond merely being "skills for hire" and I am learning from him in the process!

 

My anecodotal experiences are just that - I am not trying to put anybody off either modelling in O scale or joining the Guild, simply relating experiences/impressions.

 

Steve S

Edited by SteveyDee68
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16 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

 

To sum up, I don't think most OO gauge models belong to a specific OO gauge society/guild and I'm not sure why O gauge modelers would want or need to join the GOG for similar reasons. For the GOG to grow and flourish it needs a USP which is sufficiently attractive to appeal both to help keep existing members, and attract new one?

 

The specific OO gauge society that would be DOGA. A tiny fraction of OO modellers belong to DOGA because the scale is supported so well commercially.

This also highlights the issue of a moniker. If DOGA was a 'society' not an 'association', it would be DOGS. Gauge O Guild, or GOG is easier than GOA or GOS.

 

It seems that S7 modellers get some benefit from being GOG members too. Why?

I am slowly getting started in S7 (slowly because I do so much in OO) but have no interest in O gauge other than to use existing models as a base for conversion.

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18 hours ago, Dava said:

Our aim is to make the Guild a more relevant, attractive and inclusive organisation for all modelers in 7mm scale [any gauge, age, period, skill level] to join.2020 Guild Reform Group. Agenda for Change 7-20.pdf 399.11 kB · 50 downloads

 

Would ‘any gauge’ include 016.5, 014 etc? I only ask as I feel that NG modellers may already be well-served by the 7mm NGA (I don’t know about broad gauge or 33mm gauge fine scale but they may similarly have their own more focused groups already). I now belong to the 009 Society but was briefly a 7mm NGA member as well (when I was starting out and unsure what scale narrow gauge to go for); I don’t know how the 7mm NGA is doing now.

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9 hours ago, Barry O said:

 it's the dread words of the reviews who start with "It comes in a box which you can/cannot store the finished model in"

Baz

 

For which, I've never quite understood, why can't the box be redesigned so that a completed kit fits in the box?

 

In a recent Railway Modeller (several issues actually) there is a photo of several models on a major auction house ad, where one of the models is an O gauge LNER Garratt. It's standing on it's box and sadly the box is clearly too short to contain the completed model.

Why is the kit manufacturer so thoughtless, as to provide a sturdy box, yet one the completed model won't fit in. Another 25mm of cardboard and the owner could pack it away securely.

 

Yet, you make out that the reviewer is making a foolish statement! What do people store their models in, if they say want to take it to a friends place or a club to run it there?

 

Perhaps this is the type of thing, that upsets some people about the GOG?

Edited by kevinlms
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It is an outdated statement. It shows the reviews are stuck in the past. If you build a very nice model why wouldn't you buy a nice , well designed carrying box for it? 

 

And, the better builders do exactly that. If you watch one of the Test Tracks you will generally see a nice collection of very nice varnised wood carrying boxes which generally containg very nice kit or scratchbuilt locomotives or stock.

 

Carnoard boxes get wet and are no longer as strong as when new.

 

Reading a recent review (which was about a kit and was not sent to the kit manufacturer for review before publishing) it would have meant providing a box big enought to contain etches plus a load of space around the etches to house a complete kit. That is neither environmentally or financially good for the kit manufactiers. Of course they could standardise on a box which would fit all and leave it to you  towork out how to store them.

 

Baz

 

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7 minutes ago, Barry O said:

It is an outdated statement. It shows the reviews are stuck in the past. If you build a very nice model why wouldn't you buy a nice , well designed carrying box for it? 

 

And, the better builders do exactly that. If you watch one of the Test Tracks you will generally see a nice collection of very nice varnised wood carrying boxes which generally containg very nice kit or scratchbuilt locomotives or stock.

 

Carnoard boxes get wet and are no longer as strong as when new.

 

Reading a recent review (which was about a kit and was not sent to the kit manufacturer for review before publishing) it would have meant providing a box big enought to contain etches plus a load of space around the etches to house a complete kit. That is neither environmentally or financially good for the kit manufactiers. Of course they could standardise on a box which would fit all and leave it to you  towork out how to store them.

 

Baz

 

Sorry, I disagree. The best way of removing the 'old fashioned' introduction, is to remove the basic premise, about the box.

 

Sure a builder can chose to put the completed model into something else or not. But when the box is just a little short as per my example, that is just asking for jibes about the box. Take a look at the 'Warwick & Warwick' ad in RM and see if you can spot the silliness. Presumably collectors see items as being more valuable, if it comes with the original box! Yet it doesn't fit!

 

Packaging is undoubtedly an art form, of which I know nothing, but neither does any manufacturer who continues to make the basic mistake.

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1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Would ‘any gauge’ include 016.5, 014 etc? I only ask as I feel that NG modellers may already be well-served by the 7mm NGA (I don’t know about broad gauge or 33mm gauge fine scale but they may similarly have their own more focused groups already). I now belong to the 009 Society but was briefly a 7mm NGA member as well (when I was starting out and unsure what scale narrow gauge to go for); I don’t know how the 7mm NGA is doing now.

Yes is the short answer. The criteria is 7mm modelling - Track gauge whether Broad, Irish, Standard or Narrow is irrelevant.

Edited by Arun Sharma
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12 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Yes is the short answer. The criteria is 7mm modelling - Track gauge whether Broad, Irish, Standard or Narrow is irrelevant.

 

Thank you for clarifying this - but does this not unnecessarily duplicate the 7mm NGA? Not that it’s necessarily a problem, just that I can’t particularly see 7mm NG modellers (particularly those already belonging to the 7mm NGA) joining another group that is less focused on their activities.

 

I’m not trying to have a go, just seeking to understand the rationale - I actually quite like the idea of an inclusive group for all gauges. I know in the 009 Society we have a few members who model narrow gauge to P4 standards (Ffestiniog on 7.83mm gauge, for example). Several of them are also members of the Scalefour Society, understandably as in some ways it is better placed to support them with the finescale side of things, whereas most 009 Society members are using 9mm or other proprietary track gauges. Meanwhile the 3mm Society seems to include several NG and BG modellers as well, although I suspect that’s partly because it’s already niche enough without having a separate 3mm NG group. Is there anyone currently involved with the 7mm NGA who has a view on this?

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I did not renew my membership for 2020 because on reflection I was getting nothing much from the Guild.

 

The problem they have is that modellers can work away quite happily and get results without being a member. I had no contact with my local group (despite a couple of attempts to engage with them) which meant my quarterly magazine and the forum were my main points of contact. The former, was not very good and the later, whilst helpful, was the most censored I have ever encountered, was extremely hierarchical and off-putting. I was left with the feeling that the main purpose of my quite substantial fees (in comparison with other organisations) was to subsidise the Telford exhibition which I do not attend. 

 

I am glad to hear that at least some attempt might be made to address the issues facing the Guild, which to my mind all revolve around how to remain relevant. There were numerous previous offers of assistance, including my own - with expertise in change management and business development - that fell into the managerial abyss that seems to plague the Guild. I genuinely hope they take this issue and wish them luck.

 

John

 

 

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1 hour ago, sulzer27jd said:

I did not renew my membership for 2020 because on reflection I was getting nothing much from the Guild.

 

The problem they have is that modellers can work away quite happily and get results without being a member. I had no contact with my local group (despite a couple of attempts to engage with them) which meant my quarterly magazine and the forum were my main points of contact. The former, was not very good and the later, whilst helpful, was the most censored I have ever encountered, was extremely hierarchical and off-putting. I was left with the feeling that the main purpose of my quite substantial fees (in comparison with other organisations) was to subsidise the Telford exhibition which I do not attend. 

 

I am glad to hear that at least some attempt might be made to address the issues facing the Guild, which to my mind all revolve around how to remain relevant. There were numerous previous offers of assistance, including my own - with expertise in change management and business development - that fell into the managerial abyss that seems to plague the Guild. I genuinely hope they take this issue and wish them luck.

 

John

 

 

 

As a non-member I just took a look to see what the GoG did offer; I was pretty surprised to see that there was no shop offering items relevant to 7mm - both the EMGS and S4Soc. have shops for members.

As for discount admittance to shows, well forget that for this year....

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When I was living in Wellington, Shropshire, I used to attend GuildEx every year - as an interested non-member. My uncle models 7mm coarse scale, clockwork and stud-contact electric, he has been a GOG member for decades. I'm a 4mm standard and narrow gauge modeller. Must say, the 0 Gauge boys seemed a friendly bunch and I saw some excellent modelling on display - and not everything stayed on the road! ;)

 

When I informed my then new partner that I was going to the Gauge O Guild show, she gave me a funny look and asked: "Who is Gay Joe?" ;)

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22 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

When I informed my then new partner that I was going to the Gauge O Guild show, she gave me a funny look and asked: "Who is Gay Joe?" ;)

I'd never noticed that about the name, before. I won't be able to forget it, now!! :rolleyes: :no: :banghead: 

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12 hours ago, Lantavian said:

 

This might help to concentrate the mind: give us one sentence that tells us the benefit of membership.

 

 

 

for (currently) £21 a year you get 4 magazines a year, same as other magazines, articles, reviews and adverts, the emphasis on the trader adverts. there are a number of exhbitions a year but you may only be able to get to your nearest depending on where you live. the exhibitons provide a £5 discount entry to members of the standard £10. the exhibitions are mostly traders, i think Doncaster is about 50 traders to 5 layouts. there is an oval test track that any member can use. if you want sell anything go to the Bring & buy stand which runs on a 15% commission. and of course a chance to talk to people and share ideas.

 

thats how i see it anyway

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6 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

 

for (currently) £21 a year you get 4 magazines a year, same as other magazines, articles, reviews and adverts, the emphasis on the trader adverts. there are a number of exhbitions a year but you may only be able to get to your nearest depending on where you live. the exhibitons provide a £5 discount entry to members of the standard £10. the exhibitions are mostly traders, i think Doncaster is about 50 traders to 5 layouts. there is an oval test track that any member can use. if you want sell anything go to the Bring & buy stand which runs on a 15% commission. and of course a chance to talk to people and share ideas.

 

thats how i see it anyway

 

Sums it up pretty well! The shows do tend to be mostly trade and a few layouts, static displays and demonstrators.

 

At the shows I have been to, mostly Doncaster and Telford, the specialist trade is the sort of variety that modellers dream of finding. All sorts of cottage manufacturers turn up and you see all sorts of things that you didn't know existed or that you needed. I know the E & T service has had some stick earlier but I have often come away with a bargain from either there or the second hand "bring and buy" stall.

 

More than anything, they are a social event to meet up with people you may only see at these very shows.

 

Last Telford show I stayed overnight (as did a couple of very good friends) and did two full days (plus a most enjoyable night out in Telford) and it was up there with the most enjoyable exhibition I have ever been to. Many, many good people to talk to, nick ideas from and catch up with. As the show closed on Sunday, I realised that I hadn't spent more than a short while watching layouts. It was much more about chatting!

 

I was really quite disappointed to read that the financial side of the show wasn't working and that things may have to change.

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4 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Thank you for clarifying this - but does this not unnecessarily duplicate the 7mm NGA? Not that it’s necessarily a problem, just that I can’t particularly see 7mm NG modellers (particularly those already belonging to the 7mm NGA) joining another group that is less focused on their activities.

 

 

So what if it does duplicate the 7mmNGA? As a member of S7, G0G and 7mmNGA, I have no problems incorporating elements of narrow gauge railways in standard gauge layouts and dioramas. How else might you model the two adjacent stations at Minffordd ?

Edited by Arun Sharma
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