Rails of Sheffield Improved Precedent Class

[Jol Wilkinson]

5 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

Not much room, any suggestions for suitable crew ?

I have installed crew in a number of kit built LNWR locos, using the excellent  Andrew Stadden cast figures from the OO12 set;

 

https://www.acstadden.co.uk/product-page/oo12-edwardian-enginemen

 

In only one case did I pose the fireman on the tender on a C Class 0-8-0, in the forward end of an fairly empty coal space opening a tender toolbox. You could place the fireman on the fall plate in the RTR version as the coal looks as though it completely fill the space. On all my other model I fitted both into the cab.

[brumtb]

I was very pleased to receive my Lucknow just before Christmas, with only the front buffers dislodged.  It really is a superb model.  However, since fitting it with the recommended Bachmann 36-557 21 pin decoder I’ve struggled to achieve reliable low speed running (essential on my layout).

I’ve experimented with the CV settings for CV2 start voltage, CV6 medium speed and CV5 maximum speed but still not right, especially when backing onto coaches in a station and pulling away smoothly.

Has anyone experienced similar problems and resolved them please?  I’d be very interested to know what CV settings have been used.

With many thanks

Tony

[PaulRhB]

22 minutes ago, brumtb said:

Has anyone experienced similar problems and resolved them please?  I’d be very interested to know what CV settings have been used.

Yes although I’m using a loksound chip.

 

I initially tried turning off the BEMF but that meant the sound was well out of synch so I slowly decreased the sensitivity setting until I got smooth running and still had synchronised sound. I think the drive is quite stiff initially and the BEMF is over-compensating at low speed sending blips of power which are very noticeable with the gearing. 
If your chip is non sound try turning off the BEMF. On an ESU decoder (Bachmann say to use the ESU lokpilot manual for the 36-557) you can reduce the value in cv49 to 16 and try that. If not return it to 17. 
 

 

https://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/?no_cache=1&tx_esudownloads_pi1[downloadItem]=3c0f5bc3181aa6cbc7a131c8801e2a35

Edited December 27, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Compound2632]

Pre-Grouping train set:

 

[brumtb]

27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes although I’m using a loksound chip.

 

I initially tried turning off the BEMF but that meant the sound was well out of synch so I slowly decreased the sensitivity setting until I got smooth running and still had synchronised sound. I think the drive is quite stiff initially and the BEMF is over-compensating at low speed sending blips of power which are very noticeable with the gearing. 
If your chip is non sound try turning off the BEMF. On an ESU decoder (Bachmann say to use the ESU lokpilot manual for the 36-557) you can reduce the value in cv49 to 16 and try that. If not return it to 17. 
 

 

https://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/?no_cache=1&tx_esudownloads_pi1[downloadItem]=3c0f5bc3181aa6cbc7a131c8801e2a35

Many thanks, I am getting the blips of power!  I'll certainly follow your advice and report back.

Tony

[Methuselah]

On 19/12/2021 at 22:58, Compound2632 said:

 

You can take a lifetime of around 35-45 years in traffic as a rule of thumb, though of course there are exceptions.

 

Of the 50 ft corridor carriages of 1898-1902, represented by the Ratio kits, a good number survived to participate in the LMS' great renumbering of 1933 but probably not much after that. (Jenkinson's LNWR Carriages does not give withdrawal dates, which I think implies none survived to nationalisation.) There were a few survivors to the 1950s from the ones that had been transferred to the M&GN in LMS days and had become LNER stock.

 

If you look at the elliptical-roof 57 ft carriages built from 1908 onwards, many of which had the same interior layout as their LMS successors, last withdrawals are typically in the mid-1950s but the earliest withdrawals can be up to two decades earlier.

 

 

Thanks. That's quite a long potential life - with the opportunity for a model to be in four liveries. High time for some RTR by the sound of it.

 

 

[Methuselah]

Does anyone know how many of these models have been made - and if there will be further batches made....?

[brumtb]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes although I’m using a loksound chip.

 

I initially tried turning off the BEMF but that meant the sound was well out of synch so I slowly decreased the sensitivity setting until I got smooth running and still had synchronised sound. I think the drive is quite stiff initially and the BEMF is over-compensating at low speed sending blips of power which are very noticeable with the gearing. 
If your chip is non sound try turning off the BEMF. On an ESU decoder (Bachmann say to use the ESU lokpilot manual for the 36-557) you can reduce the value in cv49 to 16 and try that. If not return it to 17. 
 

 

https://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/?no_cache=1&tx_esudownloads_pi1[downloadItem]=3c0f5bc3181aa6cbc7a131c8801e2a35

Thank you very much for your help! I turned off BEMF and there was an immediate improvement.  I've returned CVs 2,5 & 6 to factory settings and it is fine.

Tony

[Pre Grouping fan]

6 hours ago, Methuselah said:

Does anyone know how many of these models have been made - and if there will be further batches made....?

 

Production numbers are never released unless its sold as a limited edition. 

 

Further batches are possible. Could be through Rails or as seems the norm for Bachmann commissions, a few years time it will probably be released by Bachmann in their main range. 

[Nile]

Post Grouping train (set) :

 

[Compound2632]

32 minutes ago, Nile said:

Post Grouping train (set) :

 

Is that your own lining-out of the Mainline/Bachmann Period 1 coaches, or are they the under-scale Rivarossi ones? (3.8 mm/ft, IIRC?)

[Nile]

The later, which are fine if not mixed with other stock.

[Michael Hodgson]

Yes, they are rather fine coaches, well ahead of the UK products of their time.

[john new]

Finally got a chance to put the temporary board up to run in my Hardwicke today. Runs nicely, just a smidgeon of motor noise compared to the Bachman coal tank I am also running in from new today. After the usual no load running then happily pulled four bogie vehicles.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by john new
Grammar correction

[dthead]

so what souncd chip is best for this loco? any leads for thisAussie to get/look at ??

 

Thanks.

[PaulRhB]

45 minutes ago, dthead said:

so what souncd chip is best for this loco? any leads for thisAussie to get/look at ??

 

Thanks.

I used the Wheeltappers Coal tank as it sounded closest to the one clip I could find of Hardwicke running. Make sure you select the 21pin decoder 
http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/page221/index.html

 

It did require a fair bit of playing with the chuff rate and BEMF settings to synch it though. I turned the BEMF sensitivity down and used this page to guide me changing chuff rates. 
http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-12/index.html

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by PaulRhB

[shedman]

Agreed. I put the YooChoos Coal Tank in mine for the same reason. LNWR whistle too, of course. Trevor

[Mitch91]

I've been running mine today for the first time and after the usual running in period it seems to be a very jerky runner. It also requires a nudge to get it going. Has anyone else had this problem?

[No Decorum]

8 minutes ago, Mitch91 said:

I've been running mine today for the first time and after the usual running in period it seems to be a very jerky runner. It also requires a nudge to get it going. Has anyone else had this problem?

Yes. I got mine just before Xmas and haven’t had much time to look at it. I haven’t even run it in because I’m uncomfortable about running a coreless motor without a decoder in it. I happened to find a decoder lying around and fitted it yesterday and have been testing it today. There may be a setting on the decoder for coreless motors but as I’m not sure what the decoder is, I don’t know what it might be. I changed the tyred driving wheels for the alternatives provided and in doing so noticed that the connections between the keeper plate and the chassis are very insubstantial. In addition, one of the tender pickups wasn’t making contact with the axle. It seemed as if pickup was only from the rear tender wheels. A bit of adjustment and it seemed to pick up on all intended wheels.

 

It’s very lively and runs at high speed even on low settings. It doesn’t seem to like curves either. I left it to run in but returned to find it had stalled. I’m far from convinced that there is any need for the contacts to be quite so fragile, especially as changing the driving wheels is anticipated. Tinkering continues.

[brumtb]

2 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Yes. I got mine just before Xmas and haven’t had much time to look at it. I haven’t even run it in because I’m uncomfortable about running a coreless motor without a decoder in it. I happened to find a decoder lying around and fitted it yesterday and have been testing it today. There may be a setting on the decoder for coreless motors but as I’m not sure what the decoder is, I don’t know what it might be. I changed the tyred driving wheels for the alternatives provided and in doing so noticed that the connections between the keeper plate and the chassis are very insubstantial. In addition, one of the tender pickups wasn’t making contact with the axle. It seemed as if pickup was only from the rear tender wheels. A bit of adjustment and it seemed to pick up on all intended wheels.

 

It’s very lively and runs at high speed even on low settings. It doesn’t seem to like curves either. I left it to run in but returned to find it had stalled. I’m far from convinced that there is any need for the contacts to be quite so fragile, especially as changing the driving wheels is anticipated. Tinkering continues.

My post of 27 December 2021 above and @PaulRhB's response may be of interest.  I disabled Back EMF and achieved much better running throughout the range.

Tony

[CrazyRS]

7 hours ago, Mitch91 said:

I've been running mine today for the first time and after the usual running in period it seems to be a very jerky runner. It also requires a nudge to get it going. Has anyone else had this problem?

Yes I had that problem with my first Novelty. So I returned that an my replacements arrived today, just finished running it in now. Although my second did have a slight jerk/tight spot, it’s sorted it’s self out after running in light engine in both directions followed my running with a heavy train.

 

As a note my heavy rake consisted of 7 superdetail Hornby teaks, hauled with ease. All I have to hand here as mainly our LMS stock is kept at my fathers. As a Comparison, I then removed the traction tires and tried again with the same rake, although it would pull it was struggling, so reduced the rake to 5, an it runs perfectly which is more than adequate.  We’ve got various rakes of Ratio built coaches that the Precedent will run with.
 

Personally I did think the loco ran better without traction tires, others may have different experiences. Time to get the various items fitted that came with the detailing kit ready for taking at the club on Monday night, where will be paired with our ratio coaches 

[kwste]

As beautiful as the locomotive is, getting it to run in DCC is a nightmare. Only an ESU Lokpilot 5 brought a satisfactory result after some adjustments.

 

Aristoteles

[brumtb]

1 hour ago, kwste said:

As beautiful as the locomotive is, getting it to run in DCC is a nightmare. Only an ESU Lokpilot 5 brought a satisfactory result after some adjustments.

 

Aristoteles

Have you tried disabling the BEMF as suggested by @PaulRhB above? It worked for me.

Tony

[kwste]

Yes, I tried that. It did not work. The loco jumped when accelerating and ran jerking otherwise. Only an automatic calibration of the engine and playing with the BEMF setting in the lower speeds brought something. I suspect that the motor just isn't worth Much and needs some electronic help.

 

Aristoteles

[AlfaZagato]

My Talavera arrived late yesterday.  Ended up spending an evening outside in rather chill temps.   I have a chance at test running it, maybe even running in, this evening.    I hopefully can say more in the morning.

 

Am I the only one that got Talavera?   I feel like everyone on this thread went either 'as preserved' or 'service' LNWR.