Hornby 2021 - HST & Mk3 range

[scouse889]

On the plus side, the buffet car does have the correct roof!!

[Class 158 productions]

13 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

I know I'm repeating myself but the issues with the lines really isn't good enough. Hornby really don't care about "modern image" any more, I don't care what anyone says.

 

I recently completed my latest Swallow Mk3 rake with the latest Hornby releases. The colour is much improved and lovely to look at, though the stripes are printed too low and the red buffet stripe is appalling. 

 

In the grand scheme of things they still look nice running round but in this day and age it's really not good enough...

 

 

I fully agree, normally these issues were allowed as the mk3s were often quite cheap. Whilst I love the Hornby models, have a fair few HSTs, someone really needs to give the HST justice, or at least a MK3. Most of the Hornby/Lima MK3 failings could be avoided with its low price and decent paint job. But with rrps of £40 and Hornbys failure at QC in recent years, it really is starting to look poor. Just hope the likes of accurascale and Cavalex are watching. Will be interesting to see the samples of the FGW one, Hornbys history with blue isn’t great! 

[ruggedpeak]

I would just add that I was going to buy a full Inter7City set but on reading there were issues with couplings I am not prepared to spend best part of £400 and then spend time trying to get it to go around the track properly. I am less concerned about minor detail issues, but if a set can't even run properly that is not acceptable. All manufacturers need to get a grip on this, so not unique to Hornby.

 

My guess is that there is a market for an Accura/Cavalex type spec of HST and Mk3. Done as sets they will sell IMHO. There are loads of liveries etc over the 50 years they have been operating and new ones still coming out. Can easily bring out a set or two for the next 10 years.

[scouse889]

3 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

I would just add that I was going to buy a full Inter7City set but on reading there were issues with couplings I am not prepared to spend best part of £400 and then spend time trying to get it to go around the track properly. I am less concerned about minor detail issues, but if a set can't even run properly that is not acceptable. All manufacturers need to get a grip on this, so not unique to Hornby.

 

The couplings on the Mk3 SD coaches do have an issue. If you run them with the tension locks supplied then it is generally fine unless you have S-bends on your layout, but you have a very large and unsightly (in my opinion) gap between the coaches (plus problems can arise with the cams being unable to self-center when the train comes out of the curve). The reported problems also come when you try to replace the couplings with anything other than a rigid bar-type coupling, as the rotating cams get stuck in the centre and won't pivot to the side properly, which can result in the corridor connections coming into contact with each other on curves and causing a derailment. The early Hunt Couplings were prone to this as the magnet faces came away from each other (even on third radius curves) and the corridor connections contacted. Hunt have now rectified this with their Elite couplings which have supports on the sides to maintain the contact between the magnets, and I have no issues running these (2nd and 3rd radius). Any coupling which makes a rigid bar also works ok - the R8220 couplings Hornby supply as spares with the coaches are ok but still leave a gap, using the equivalent Roco close couplings closes the gap. I'd also recommend putting some grease on the cams to make them slide more easily. I've not had any problems running GWR [2+4] castle, SR7 [2+4] or XC [2+7] sets with the Roco or newer Hunt Elite Mk3SD couplings.

I agree with you though and I am not a fan of these body-mounted pivoting self-centering couplings - they are designed to be used with a rigid bar as the spring mechanism is never strong enough to make them centre afterwards - but are always supplied with tension locks. It is the same thing that causes problems with the Hornby SD locos like the Class 60, people are always reporting coupling and derailment issues.

 

 

[scouse889]

4 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

I fully agree, normally these issues were allowed as the mk3s were often quite cheap. Whilst I love the Hornby models, have a fair few HSTs, someone really needs to give the HST justice, or at least a MK3. Most of the Hornby/Lima MK3 failings could be avoided with its low price and decent paint job. But with rrps of £40 and Hornbys failure at QC in recent years, it really is starting to look poor. Just hope the likes of accurascale and Cavalex are watching. Will be interesting to see the samples of the FGW one, Hornbys history with blue isn’t great! 

 

The Mark 3 buffet coach actually looks quite bad - and I'd actually make the argument that my Lima buffet car from 30 years earlier is better (or at least equal) quality in terms of printing, and that's saying something! I attach some photos for others to decide.....

[scouse889]

4 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

 

Any shade of blue from Hornby since the late 90s seems to have been mixed by Stevie Wonder.

 

 

Couldn't disagree more on this point - if the blues were mixed by Stevie Wonder they would all be lovely, so very lovely, made from love.

 

[scouse889]

Some pictures of the FGW dynamic lines power cars and TGS on this month's TES:

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/mark-three-mark-four-maunsell?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Maunsell+Morsels+and+More!&utm_campaign=Hornby+-+Engine+Shed+-+Week+31+2021%2F2022

 

The blue looks to be largely the same as previous releases.

[Class 158 productions]

16 minutes ago, scouse889 said:

Some pictures of the FGW dynamic lines power cars and TGS on this month's TES:

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/mark-three-mark-four-maunsell?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Maunsell+Morsels+and+More!&utm_campaign=Hornby+-+Engine+Shed+-+Week+31+2021%2F2022

 

The blue looks to be largely the same as previous releases.

And a buffet with roof vents! Huzzah! Actually looks quite good, to me the blue looks less washed out than 036/070 even in the bright lights it’s probably under. 

[scouse889]

2 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

And a buffet with roof vents! Huzzah! Actually looks quite good, to me the blue looks less washed out than 036/070 even in the bright lights it’s probably under. 

 

Let's hope those images are all indeed the latest pictures of these models in development!

I am no expert on HST buffet cars (I know enough to know that this subject is a bit of a minefield) but the image is different to the render in the catalogue, and is clearly based on the four-window, former Lima tooling (rather than the three-window Hornby tooling). Looking at the real thing 40204 does indeed have four windows; if they are going to produce it with the Lima tooling the roof and windows will be a one-piece moulding (unlike the pure Hornby one), so it should be impossible for them to use the wrong roof tooling (he says....).

It will be interesting to compare the blues - I hope they are close to the previous release because I'd finally like to get a buffet with roof vents to replace the previously cocked-up R4371A with the coach rake that accompanies 036/070.

Remains to be seen how the coaches will be lettered as well - despite what Hornby told me, the buffet is still showing as K to accompany an A-B-C-D-E G-H set....

[surfsup]

10 hours ago, scouse889 said:

 

Let's hope those images are all indeed the latest pictures of these models in development!

I am no expert on HST buffet cars (I know enough to know that this subject is a bit of a minefield) but the image is different to the render in the catalogue, and is clearly based on the four-window, former Lima tooling (rather than the three-window Hornby tooling). Looking at the real thing 40204 does indeed have four windows; if they are going to produce it with the Lima tooling the roof and windows will be a one-piece moulding (unlike the pure Hornby one), so it should be impossible for them to use the wrong roof tooling (he says....).

It will be interesting to compare the blues - I hope they are close to the previous release because I'd finally like to get a buffet with roof vents to replace the previously cocked-up R4371A with the coach rake that accompanies 036/070.

Remains to be seen how the coaches will be lettered as well - despite what Hornby told me, the buffet is still showing as K to accompany an A-B-C-D-E G-H set....

 

Don't worry about that - As soon as it was announced and this rake came to my attention, I dropped Mr K an email and it has thankfully been changed. For some reason it is still labelled as Coach K in Hornby's catalogue, it is correctly printed on the coach as Coach F. As per my post in the Engine Shed blog thread, Coach F Being prototypical for a pre 2015 FGW Rake with 2.5 First Class, K for a later 2015 - 2019 rake with 1.5 First Class. 

 

40204 is indeed a 4 Window buffet, along with the 409 Series Buffets (converted from redundant ex Virgin TRSBs), while the 407 series buffets were 3 Windows (and had a bigger kitchen to provide meals). To muddy the waters a little, you then had the 408 series Buffets converted by Midland Mainline from 4 window TRSBs to include a bigger kitchen on the Project Rio services (3 have since gone on to find use with LSL since their FGW era).  

[scouse889]

8 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

Don't worry about that - As soon as it was announced and this rake came to my attention, I dropped Mr K an email and it has thankfully been changed. For some reason it is still labelled as Coach K in Hornby's catalogue, it is correctly printed on the coach as Coach F. As per my post in the Engine Shed blog thread, Coach F Being prototypical for a pre 2015 FGW Rake with 2.5 First Class, K for a later 2015 - 2019 rake with 1.5 First Class. 

Your eyes are clearly better than mine! I have zoomed in on my iPad this morning though, and it does indeed look to be F rather than K, which is good to see. I also contacted Hornby about this and was told it would be produced as F, so it is good that Hornby listen and correct mistakes.

I now just have to keep my fingers crossed that the blue matches the older releases so I can finally dispense with the skinhead R4371A!!

 

One thing which still niggles me (and I have contacted Hornby about) is that the standard class TS and TSD coaches clearly contain the 2+1 first class seating moulding, as you cannot see any seat backs in the windows. I don’t know why Hornby keep doing this, they have a 2+2 moulding (last used on the first run of the LNER coaches IIRC) and although this is based on the original BR seating layout it is at least closer to the current layout in having the correct number of seats either side and the seat backs being visible in the windows. At least the Hornby coaches are easy to take apart so it is easy to swap the seating mouldings.
 

 

[Shoey]

I’ve noticed on the power cars they’re missing the silver window surrounds on the guards compartment door windows…

[Class 158 productions]

11 hours ago, Shoey said:

I’ve noticed on the power cars they’re missing the silver window surrounds on the guards compartment door windows…

The last FGW batches didn’t have these either. But later GWR ones do, maybe they will be added?  Also noted that they still don’t have the little silver Brush plates added after refurbishment, a shame as the GWR ones have these fitted 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Class 158 productions

[surfsup]

15 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

The last FGW batches didn’t have these either. But later GWR ones do, maybe they will be added?  Also noted that they still don’t have the little silver Brush plates added after refurbishment, a shame as the GWR ones have these fitted 

To be entirely prototypical, 098 has one too many First's printed on too!

[scouse889]

I see the entire FGW HST is now expected December according to the Hornby website, as well as the LNER farewell power cars. Might be a bumper month for HST releases if it all materialises!

[toolongtoremember]

So Hornby are retooling the HST power cars because of another manufacturer also having a crack at them. Anybody know who that manufacturer is? 

[Hal Nail]

4 minutes ago, toolongtoremember said:

So Hornby are retooling the HST power cars because of another manufacturer also having a crack at them. Anybody know who that manufacturer is? 

There's a separate thread about this. Suggest we keep this one about the actual models!

[toolongtoremember]

Just now, Hal Nail said:

There's a separate thread about this. Suggest we keep this one about the actual models!

Thanks, I tried the search and came up with nothing, I'll keep looking! 

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, toolongtoremember said:

Thanks, I tried the search and came up with nothing, I'll keep looking! 

 

Here: (In the Hornby section.....)

 

[Daniel A]

On 10/11/2021 at 21:03, scouse889 said:

I see the entire FGW HST is now expected December according to the Hornby website, as well as the LNER farewell power cars. Might be a bumper month for HST releases if it all materialises!

Received my new FGW HST here in Australia at my local model shop today. 

 

Would expect them to be in the UK any time now. Just need the new MK3 released now.

[scouse889]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Received my new FGW HST here in Australia at my local model shop today. 

 

Would expect them to be in the UK any time now. Just need the new MK3 released now.

A nice Xmas present!  Any chance of some pics?

[Daniel A]

12 hours ago, scouse889 said:

A nice Xmas present!  Any chance of some pics?

[scouse889]

Thanks very much @Daniel A. They look the same shade of blue as the previous releases so I am still hoping the new buffet R40035 matches with the older rake of coaches I have so I can replace the skinhead one R4371A. Not too much longer to wait to find out! It would be nice to add the representation of the TSD to that rake too.

[scouse889]

I see there is a set of these (from Australia) for sale on eBay… £266.02 plus £16.16 postage. Almost tempting to buy to see if they get to the UK quicker than Hornby release them here!

Edited December 26, 2021 by scouse889

[surfsup]

21 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

Thank you for those pictures - It does appear to be the same blue as the last release, though again I'm not sure what seems to be going on with the luggage van door window - the first version had the frame printed in silver, subsequent batches had them missing, now they appear to have printed the frame on the window in the same blue as the rest of the PC. Oh well, at least they're on their way now!