Hornby 2021 - P2 new tooling

[Paul_sterling]

15 hours ago, atom3624 said:

At least Peppercorn came to the rescue, albeit totally separate locomotives - they were for the same / similar duties.

Wonder how HRH #2007 PoW will fare on the mainline - is all resolved?

 

Al.

 

I've been pondering the Thompson and Peppercorn engines lately, and I think that the Thompson locos provide more of an important stepping stone from Gresley to Pepp than is often considered. 

 

Re 2007, I believe a significant amount of work has gone into finite element analysis to refine the crank design, and avoid the issues of the originals. It won't have conjugated valve gear either, so in principle, the power /torque distribution should be even across the cylinders (within reason, expansion, wear and steam distribution are still variables). 

 

Paul. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Paul_sterling

[9402 Fredrick]

3 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Would have been much better value, to replace Hornblocks and axles, than rip a loco to bits and rebuild it to a new configuration. A very poor choice in the middle of a War.

 

manna

To those still hating on Thompson watch the railway mania podcast that talked about Edward Thompson with Simon Martin as a guest.

[manna]

18 minutes ago, 9402 Fredrick said:

To those still hating on Thompson watch the railway mania podcast that talked about Edward Thompson with Simon Martin as a guest.

G'Day Folks

 

NO, I don't hate Thompson, but I think it was a poor choice, to do a Big expensive rebuild in Wartime.

 

manna

[Paul_sterling]

5 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

NO, I don't hate Thompson, but I think it was a poor choice, to do a Big expensive rebuild in Wartime.

 

manna

 

Certainly in terms of manpower, but they were desperate for working locomotives, and though I wholly agree they'd have been better applied to the southern end of the LNER, my suspicion is that the brute power and size of the components on these engines meant that they would still have had front end issues there too, as did A4's, A3's and most other Gresley conjugated motion locos. And Scotland would have still needed engines too, so without something to put in place, they needed the locos up there, and they needed them available more often. The rebuild 'looks' dramatic, but I don't belive it was too massive, were the frames replaced or modified? 

 

Thanks. 

Paul

Edited September 17, 2021 by Paul_sterling

[Paul_sterling]

6 hours ago, 9402 Fredrick said:

To those still hating on Thompson watch the railway mania podcast that talked about Edward Thompson with Simon Martin as a guest.

 

I'm glad to see more and more people defending Thompson these days, a number of people have made great efforts to rebuild his reputation. However, no one was making disparaging remarks or hating on Thompson as far as I can see. It's the locos which were being debated. 

 

Paul 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Paul_sterling

[The Black Hat]

6 hours ago, Paul_sterling said:

 

I'm glad to see more and more people defending Thompson these days, a number of people have made great efforts to rebuild his reputation. However, no one was making disparaging remarks or hating on Thompson as far as I can see. It's the locos which were being debated. 

 

Paul 

 

The problem is that every time Thompson is mentioned for whatever reason - its only a matter of time before the Gresley V Thompson debate kicks off. People idolise Gresley over his work with A4's, Scotsman and speed records and decry Thompson for rebuilds and less sentimental leadership, but most of this is people just rehashing a debate or an article that was one read and doing this over and over. While you can get a revisionist view, most of the reasons for and against still focus on the railway, engines and designs - with some mentioning other factors for the war in explaining Thompson. Few ever get further than this - when in fact there are a great many reasons on why designs changed and designers are forced to adapt their thinking, designs and operation to the circumstance they find themselves in at that time. Cost, maintenance, development of new thinking and technology, labour, standardisation, efficiencies are all reasons explaining why both acted how they did, but never really mentioned. 

One factor that I always love is that always overlooked about's Thompsons A2 is standardisation. Gresleys P2s were virtually all unique with all the adaptations to the design. Thompson then made a uniform but small group of them. These then get withdrawn early and all the anti-Thompson lot use that as a means for saying they were bad - when in fact it comes full circle and a small fleet falls victim to the same standardisation that force their conversion in the first place. 

Fact remains that this isnt the place for the Thompson vs Gresley debate to ignite again. There are plenty of places its been covered. Yet, I will be one of those that will be going for the idea of a P2 that was modified rather than rebuilt (or in my case new build) and thus show to others a version of history that never was, but could have been. 

[DonnyRailMan]

On 17/09/2021 at 13:34, The Black Hat said:

Fact remains that this isnt the place for the Thompson vs Gresley debate to ignite again. There are plenty of places its been covered. Yet, I will be one of those that will be going for the idea of a P2 that was modified rather than rebuilt (or in my case new build) and thus show to others a version of history that never was, but could have been. 

 

  Correct, but every one knows Thompson made a pigs ear of the P2 rebuild to his A2 .

[The Black Hat]

17 minutes ago, DonnyRailMan said:

 

  Correct, but every one knows Thompson made a pigs ear of the P2 rebuild to his A2 .

Here we go... 

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Here we go... 

Again

[The Black Hat]

3 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Again

True, but I will help it along a little.
 

6 hours ago, DonnyRailMan said:

 

  Correct, but every one knows Thompson made a pigs ear of the P2 rebuild to his A2 .

Except, he didn't. 

Lights blue touch-paper... 

[PieGuyRob]

If I were to get a 2007, are the Lord of Rothespay nameplates going to be available? I'm not a huge fan of the heir to the throne.

[PieGuyRob]

Does anyone know why pre orders have been removed from the liverpool and the cornish retailers? 

[Hilux5972]

23 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Does anyone know why pre orders have been removed from the liverpool and the cornish retailers? 

Because they aren’t tier 1 so don’t get first dibs on orders anymore. Been discussed on here before 

[Hilux5972]

5 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

If I were to get a 2007, are the Lord of Rothespay nameplates going to be available? I'm not a huge fan of the heir to the throne.

What do you mean Lord of Rothespay? 2007 will be Duke of Rothesay when in Scotland, and he is still the heir to the throne with that title. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

9 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Because they aren’t tier 1 so don’t get first dibs on orders anymore. Been discussed on here before 

 

Pretty sure Kernow are tier 1 but they have put a page where their 2022 range was with a statement on why they aren't taking new orders. They sound pissed off to put it lightly.

 

[Hilux5972]

38 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

Pretty sure Kernow are tier 1 but they have put a page where their 2022 range was with a statement on why they aren't taking new orders. They sound pissed off to put it lightly.

 

I thought because they had gone into manufacturing as well that they weren’t either. Would be so much easier if an actual list was published but that’s wishful thinking I Think. 

[Edge]

Just for the record, my pre orders for everything from the 2021 & 2022 Hornby ranges (which include 2007) are all still active with kernow- the only thing I have lost out on is a SDJR coach. 

 

So those with existing orders - it would appear that Kernow intends (and believes it can) honour these orders and is only restricting new orders until they have clarity over exactly how many they have to sell.

[Dominion]

I think this is the page "Pre Grouping Fan" is referring to.

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/765/Hornby-2022-Range

[reddragon]

On 12/02/2022 at 09:05, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

Pretty sure Kernow are tier 1 but they have put a page where their 2022 range was with a statement on why they aren't taking new orders. They sound pissed off to put it lightly.

 

Maybe because when the W1 arrived, Hornby put the price up so much that every customer who pre-ordered cancelled due to the shear scale if price increase including me!

 

They told me that Hornby cancelled the guaranteed price given to them without notice and based on the price of W1 being sold elsewhere was below their trade purchase cost + vat they felt conned.

[Hilux5972]

Latest edition of engine shed highlights the P2 sample. Looking great so far. https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/powerful-p2s-and-plucky-pecketts?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=The+latest+edition+of+Engine+Shed+is+here!&utm_campaign=Hornby+-+Engine+Shed+-+Week+1+2022%2F23

[scots region]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

Latest edition of engine shed highlights the P2 sample. Looking great so far. https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/powerful-p2s-and-plucky-pecketts?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=The+latest+edition+of+Engine+Shed+is+here!&utm_campaign=Hornby+-+Engine+Shed+-+Week+1+2022%2F23

noticeable split in the running plate.  

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, scots region said:

noticeable split in the running plate.  

Would be difficult to avoid one somewhere given some of it is alloy and some of it plastic.

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Would be difficult to avoid one somewhere given some of it is alloy and some of it plastic.

And they are doing the semi-streamlined A4 style as well so presumably the smokebox and front footplate area is one single piece 

[reddragon]

Wasn't the P2 2007 due this month? Still says that in many places!

[Hilux5972]

18 minutes ago, reddragon said:

Wasn't the P2 2007 due this month? Still says that in many places!

Given that Engine shed only showed an unfinished engineering sample, I’d say highly unlikely.