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Hornby 2021 - P2 new tooling

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micklner

micklner

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On 28/11/2022 at 13:06, Dominion said:

Yes but RCTS says its one off welded one looked the same externally as the other new type non corridor tenders, as used behind Hornby’s A3s. 

Comparison between a A4 Tender and P2 Tender. RCTS mentions the sizes diferences as well.

 

IMG_6577.jpg.94e90669e8aa4d193f6da205013d6017.jpg

 

 

IMG_6579.jpg.0696a27af396aef36abc090e839956db.jpg

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Dominion

Dominion

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Mick, is the taller tender in your photos one you have repainted ? It looks good.

 

As I understand it the tenders fitted to the P2s were of 2 types, both dimensionally the same as other LNER Pacific tenders. 2001 and 2002 got New Type non-corridor tenders as fitted to several of the A1s and A3s. 2003-2006 got A4 Streamlined non-corridor tenders. The tender for 2001 was unique in construction being welded but the height of the side sheets to the bead and the height of the front, middle and back plates were all the same as the regular tender New Type tender, at least initially, and its coal capacity was the same. It did have spoked wheels though. 

 

The Streamlined non-corridor tenders were taller at the side sheets and front and middle plates, at least initially, had no beading and had a cowl at the front, and the side sheets were almost straight rather than curved in. The A4 type tenders fitted to 2003-6 changed capacity when there front fairings or cowlings were reduced in length.

 

My original comment on the pictures mentioned a page back of 2003 and 2005 were that Hornby had tenders behind them that were missing the cowling, and that I hoped they corrected that for the production models. They should be able to easily as they already have the tooling for it. It would make a visual difference as the correct tender has no beading on the front or top of the side sheets, is higher, does not turn in very much at the front to suit the lack of side sheet curve on the cabs for 2003-2006 and perhaps most visually noticeable has a cowling behind the front plate.  This cowling was either tall and long initially, tall but less long later and lower later still, but always with a cowling as far as I can tell.

What is a little concerning to me is that the photo shown does appear to have less turn in at the front, correctly, doors on the tender, but no cowling. I cant be sure weather that display tender has a bead or not. This suggests it maybe a new tool rather that usage of existing parts for display, but incorrect as it is missing the cowling.

 

Separately, where Hornby also made it confusing with the original P2 model for you and I and anyone else that wants to mix and match, is that its tender is shorter than their tooling for the super detailed New type non-corridor tenders used on their A1 and A3 models. RCTS states that the heights were the same even though 2001's tender was welded.  It certainly looks right behind the 2001, and some people think its height is closer to being correct than the main range one. 

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micklner

micklner

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Posted (edited)

Yes the shorter one is C of N version including the correct spoked wheels. The other has been repainted etc by me, thanks.

 

Looking at a photos in RCTS Part 6B page 156 it clearly can be seen that C of N Tender has a lower frontplate than EM's one below. Hard to tell from the photos as theyare taken from different distances, Cof N Tender sides appears to be slightly lower along its length as well.

 

C of N

Footplate to Side Beading 7ft 01/2ins height.

Footplate to 7ft 10 3/8ins to top of Front Plate.

 

Last P2's no Beading fitted

Footplate to top of Front Plate 8ft 6 1/4 ins, no measurement shown for the rear. Side different size due to no beading fitted.

 

It also states that the similar Tenders were  built for A3/A4's so something is wrong at the rear on one or both in the photos!!.

I havent measured the CofN Tender as its packed away at mo.

 

Edited by micklner
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palmsticks

palmsticks

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, micklner said:

Comparison between a A4 Tender and P2 Tender. RCTS mentions the sizes diferences as well.

 

IMG_6577.jpg.94e90669e8aa4d193f6da205013d6017.jpg

 

 

IMG_6579.jpg.0696a27af396aef36abc090e839956db.jpg

 

The old "make it look bigger if you give it a haircut" routine, eh?

 

Dimension change was to do with design of previous corridor type being carried across to non corridor tender.   Aparently 2001's tender tank was manufactured by Metropolitan-Vickers at Trafford Park.

 

One for:

https://www.booklaw.co.uk/booklaw-publications/lner-loco-tender-numbering-great-central-group-tender-allocations.html

 

Very intersting articles on the tenders for the A4s, (something so simple as to what had which tender  = really complicated!)

has some info relevant:

https://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/mob-tenders.shtml

 

and (search for GROUP STANDARD 5000 GALLONS), some reference to the P2 tender numbers, type etc

http://www.doncasterworksrecords.org.uk/Part-38F.html

 

BTW nice job on that paintwork

 

Edited by palmsticks
non corridor was prev incorrectly non streamlined
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Dominion

Dominion

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I heard back from Hornby on the missing tender cowling on 2003 and 2005 shown at Warley. Apparently the tenders on display were using mixtures of tool inserts, and the production version should be correct. 

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No Decorum

No Decorum

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Posted (edited)
On 28/11/2022 at 09:00, Paul_sterling said:

 

I've often wondered why it got a single blastpipe. Was questions being asked about the benefits of the double? (again!)

 

Paul. 

I think you’re right. There was some opposition to the Kylchap because the extra ironmongery in the smokebox got in the way of tube cleaning. The first A4s had plain single chimneys.

 

It appears that Gresley was in an experimental mood; the P2s were all different. You could regard 2003 Lord President as the standard of the class, although “standard” is an odd word to use in relation to the P2s!


2001 Cock o’ the North had poppet valves and an ACFI pre-heater. It also had a sloping front different from the A4 style.
2002 Earl Marischal had piston valves, and no pre-heater because the ACFI type had not operated satisfactorily. The sloping front was similar to that of 2001.
Both 2001 and 2002 were rebuilt with A4-style front ends like 2003.
2004 Mons Meg had an exhaust bypass valve.
2005 Thane of Fife had a single (non-Kylchap) chimney, as you have observed.
2006 Wolf of Badenoch had a combustion chamber.

 

For all their faults, I love the P2s. If Hornby is on the ball (e.g. by installing good motors and throwing away LNER paint with a soapy finish) I can foresee SK parting me from a lot of cash.

 

I had 2003 professionally built at a time when a RTR P2 seemed impossible.

 

2003 Lord President 2.jpg

Edited by No Decorum
I forgot to close parentheses.
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G-BOAF

G-BOAF

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The steam generator fitted P2 is described on the Hornby website as having functioning lighting as well. Is this just a typo or are they planning on fitting LED headlights, akin to Dapol's A4. Not something I particularly want as they are a) overscale and b) mean you cant change the headcode...

Does anyone know more on this?

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G-BOAF

G-BOAF

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3 hours ago, Johan DC said:

All three smoke generator locs (P2, A3 and Black 5) will have the lights.

No idea why they should be overscale? And not changing the headcode on an express doensn't look like a major issue.

 

The Dapol ones seemed a little on the large side, certainly more chunky than Springside versions, plus the addition of an ugly wire sticking out of the bottom.

My problem with fixed lamps on steam locos is what happens when the engine is on shed, or running light engine, or running on a preserved branch line (with either 'stopper' or demo goods), or running tender first.

I hope they do what Bachmann did with the Mk2s and have the lamps demountable...

Edited by G-BOAF
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palmsticks

palmsticks

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MISSING LOCOMOTIVE

Have you seen this engine?

image.png.df936cca778085344f7df68297bb5af5.png

 

 

The steamy vapour making P2 2007 "Prince of Wales" model R3983SS seems to have disappeared off the Hornby website search facility.  Google can find it, however, it is marked with a rather severe red Unavailble label.

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-p2-class-2-8-2-2007-prince-wales-steam-generator-era-11-r3983ss

 

Anybody know if this has been cancelled or has it been temporarily lost down the back of the proverbial sofa?

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5Dublo2

5Dublo2

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1 hour ago, palmsticks said:

 

The steamy vapour making P2 2007 "Prince of Wales" model R3983SS seems to have disappeared off the Hornby website search facility.  Google can find it, however, it is marked with a rather severe red Unavailble label.

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-p2-class-2-8-2-2007-prince-wales-steam-generator-era-11-r3983ss

 

Anybody know if this has been cancelled or has it been temporarily lost down the back of the proverbial sofa?


As none of the Steam Generating Hornby locos have been released it is probably just subject to massive delays - pretty sure the planned production run sold out, which might be why it says unavailable

I did see a prototype loco (not the P2) running with the steam generator at some of last years shows - seems to work well

 

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Johan DC

Johan DC

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Both the FS and Black 5 are still on the website. Both are also still available to pre-order, the P2 isn't.

I think that's the reason. The steam version of PoW is for Autumn 2023, the regular for Summer 2023.

Some P2 2007 parts in production in today's TheEngine Shed:

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/collections/steamgenerator?langPath=Hornby-uk&filters[mandatory_filter_by][product_collection_iii]=Steam Generator&page_id=116983&sort_by=8&page=1

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palmsticks

palmsticks

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On 30/06/2023 at 17:51, palmsticks said:

MISSING LOCOMOTIVE

Have you seen this engine?

image.png.df936cca778085344f7df68297bb5af5.png

 

 

The steamy vapour making P2 2007 "Prince of Wales" model R3983SS seems to have disappeared off the Hornby website search facility.  Google can find it, however, it is marked with a rather severe red Unavailble label.

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lner-p2-class-2-8-2-2007-prince-wales-steam-generator-era-11-r3983ss

 

Anybody know if this has been cancelled or has it been temporarily lost down the back of the proverbial sofa?

 

Good* news** - the Hornby website search engine is now listing R3983SS again.  It has returned from down the back of the sofa along with the TV remote, half a dozen peanut m&m's, and a revised (later) arrival date.

 

*= Good is relative depending on your obsession with monstrous green track wrecking machines and your view of the current state of the world.

**= I'm not sure this counts as news.

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