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EFE Gate Stock


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I’ve created this topic to separate the Gate Stock  out from the general release announcement of all the models and show the tooling changes made, at least to the Southern Olive Green version.

I had considered adding  it to the Gate Stock topic on the Kernow’s forum,but as it is now an EFE product thought best to keep it here.

 

 

 

What I think is the main tooling change is the corrections made to the underframes of both coaches.

 

The original Kernow Driving Brake is the lower chassis and the new EFE the upper one.

 

 

Driving brake chassis.jpg

 

And here the trailer third, again Kernow lower and EFE upper.

 

 

1822817716_Trailerchassis.jpg.2694ac0a40cd650b07a006c55f2b9489.jpg

 

Changes have also been made to the roof vents. The original Kernow model had the slightly larger LSWR type and the EFE now has what I believe is the correct SR smaller version. Also the roof is now grey as against the original much lighter colour.

Question, did set 374 carry that lighter colour and set 373 the grey. ?

 

1469559725_largevent.jpg.b55a52089e856b8f4251be57e897514b.jpg

 

 

small vent.jpg

 

 

The interior of the Driving Brake now has the correct  partition added  and the rear bench seat changed to a two by two arrangement to  give access to the gangway door between coaches.

 

IMG_8862.jpeg

 

 

Edited by Yankee
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If you consider the chassis, seat  and roof mouldings constitute a very large part of the  model,  the cost would not be much less than the complete set. May be, like me,  best to buy a new set, remove the new tooling parts and convert your old Kernow set.  Then, if you no longer want them, fit the old Kernow tooling parts to the new EFE bodies and sell them.

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I think the prototypical  wheels for the 1930’s Southern Gate stock would have been the wooden inset Mansell wheels.

 

1024px-Mansell_wheel_set.jpg.520bb03451771b53ccf7b669ff394b0f.jpg

 

 

If like me you are considering  upgrading your Olive Green coaches  with Alan Gibson Mansell wheels please remember the bogies of these models are narrower than normal and you need to specify the 24.5mm axles, (front),  as against the normal 26 mm axles, (rear).

 

 

IMG_8881.jpeg.8f369e16a171a5ff5f546a9ca9b29373.jpegIMG_8759.jpeg.0da6b32804f79b3a2e02641759d3436b.jpegIMG_8782.jpeg.a1a627c60b6904b5e6196c5b73041631.jpeg

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As there is very little information out there on these, I think it would be fair to say that they still had Mansell wheels at least until 1931 when the ront end was changed and possably bogies were swapped out at the same time. Set 24 still had them in 1938, along with a few others after looking at photographs. One of those things that would be very difficult to find a definitive answer. 

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20 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Mike King's drawings show Mansell wheels, 3'7" dia. 

Your right, it does. I read somewhere, which I just can't find but was probably in Mike kings book that the boggies were swapped at some point, if the wheels were changed it may have happened at this point. 

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Are wooden

On 02/01/2021 at 22:27, Steamport Southport said:

I think Mansell wheels were as good as banned by the 1930s though. They certainly fell out of favour by about 1900. 

 

There might have been a few still about, but would have been extremely rare.

 

 

Jason

 

Bluebell has a number of vehicles with mansell wheels, I believe some were recently mainline registered and towed to Kings Cross for a film production.


(not my video).

 

 

I do not know if they are “new” wheels or restored, but this vehicle stands out, in that its yet to be restored, but VCTs detail suggests it was taken out of passenger service in 1941, to departmental service, and its still got them, in its current unrestored state. Its been at Bluebell since 1972.


http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=335

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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19 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Are wooden

 

Bluebell has a number of vehicles with mansell wheels, I believe some were recently mainline registered and towed to Kings Cross for a film production.


(not my video).

 

 

I do not know if they are “new” wheels or restored, but this vehicle stands out, in that its yet to be restored, but VCTs detail suggests it was taken out of passenger service in 1941, to departmental service, and its still got them, in its current unrestored state. Its been at Bluebell since 1972.


http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=335

 

 

 

 

I cannot say that I recall any of the SE&CR bogie coaches on the Bluebell having Mansell wheels.

The 6 wheeled guards break requires a substantial rebuild as its timber chassis is warped.  I believe at least one model manufacturer has measured and photographed it though.

Ray

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On 10/01/2021 at 19:04, adb968008 said:

Are wooden

 

Bluebell has a number of vehicles with mansell wheels, I believe some were recently mainline registered and towed to Kings Cross for a film production.


(not my video).

 

 

I do not know if they are “new” wheels or restored, but this vehicle stands out, in that its yet to be restored, but VCTs detail suggests it was taken out of passenger service in 1941, to departmental service, and its still got them, in its current unrestored state. Its been at Bluebell since 1972.


http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=335

I don't think any of the vehicles that went to Kings X had Maunsell wheels. All the 4 wheelers are on parcel van underframes and the bogie stock is too modern to have Maunsell wheels. The only restored vehicle I know of in service is 1520, the LSWR Brake.

 

All our Maunsell wheels would be originals, im not sure what the deal with creating new axles would be with regards to getting them certified.  

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35 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I don't think any of the vehicles that went to Kings X had Maunsell wheels. All the 4 wheelers are on parcel van underframes and the bogie stock is too modern to have Maunsell wheels. The only restored vehicle I know of in service is 1520, the LSWR Brake.

 

All our Maunsell wheels would be originals, im not sure what the deal with creating new axles would be with regards to getting them certified.  

Its a Mansell wheel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansell_wheel

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Word of caution for anyone thinking of splitting the chassis and body of the third trailer coach.

 

I was about to split mine and both sides were free, but felt a slight restriction in freeing  the engine non corridor end.

Close inspection found that the Vac pipe, the only one on the model, is glued both into the body end and chassis.

 

1545862494_VacPipe.jpg.3fc5a7ab87052fc52510d2b95f9da169.jpg

 

 

I have tried to gently prise and unglue  the vac pipe, and will continue trying, but it looks at this stage it may have to be cut close to where it is glued into the chassis. Will update with end result.

Can’t quite understand why something is permanently fixed to prevent body removal, so easy for the pipe to be just a push fit into the hole in the chassis. My earlier Kernow model is the same, I did a search on the Kernow Gate Stock Forum topic and surprised there was  no mention of the problem. Sorry if it is there and I've missed it.

Edited by Yankee
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End Result

 

 

I had two coaches to split as I was bringing my old Kernow model up to the correct underframe standard by changing over the chassis. After many attempts at trying to prise the vac pipe out of the chassis I wondered if it had been glued in with a drop of cyno so tried using  “Deluxe Glue Buster” to release the pipe. All it did was soften the plastic pipe which finally melted through, thankfully at its base. With the second coach I tried picking away at the base of the pipe where there is a wider lip. There was some give and I thought it was coming lose but it did break off, at least like before right at its base.  Removing the chassis is a very delicate job as the vac pipe wraps around the coach buffer beam and if not flipped over the headstock first could very easily snap off. Fortunately the pipe is very flexible and flipped over the beam freely. This task is made easier if the bogie at that end of the coach is removed first.

 

 Here are some pictures during the chassis removal.

 

     First pipe melted through at its base

 

 

918256250_pipe1.jpg.a154cd823754c152b7a10d39423e0132.jpg

 

Released pipe flipped over headstock

 

pipe2.jpg.998171f76e2c4cc2eba0b3ea1b8d8c82.jpg

 

 

Freed Pipe

 

pipe3.jpg.4b1b58d707a2c2977a29aa56e55628db.jpg

 

1085251182_pipe4.jpg.40566da82313c28689f9f09941aad4a7.jpg

 

 

Edited by Yankee
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No-one else has mentioned what seems to me to be a glaring error.  On the driving brake, the "first" and "third" letterings are swapped as their location on the body does not match the  seating layout.  Unless of course, this is an alternative reality and the 1st class passengers sat sideways on the long benches! 

Actually, perhaps it's not the lettering that's swapped, as it looks like the seating  layout has been incorrectly modelled - the length of coach with "first" seats is longer than that for "third", which doesn't seem right.

There is a partition at the non-driving end. Is that for a smoking section? If so, why are "smoking" signs not fitted as with the composite coach?

These are lovely coaches.

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One boob that EFE have perpetuated with the latest Southern Olive batch

is the printing of the wood effect droplights on the ' glass ' rather than the

representation of the droplight frame.

As far as I can see this only affects the lined olive coaches.

1228736251_smallvent.jpg.de3ffcbbfca8b3459021325748bf98c8.jpg

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On 21/01/2021 at 21:45, trainfan101 said:

No-one else has mentioned what seems to me to be a glaring error.  On the driving brake, the "first" and "third" letterings are swapped as their location on the body does not match the  seating layout.  Unless of course, this is an alternative reality and the 1st class passengers sat sideways on the long benches! 

Actually, perhaps it's not the lettering that's swapped, as it looks like the seating  layout has been incorrectly modelled - the length of coach with "first" seats is longer than that for "third", which doesn't seem right.

There is a partition at the non-driving end. Is that for a smoking section? If so, why are "smoking" signs not fitted as with the composite coach?

These are lovely coaches.

The sideways and long bench seating layout arrangement is correct as many pictures of the last set 373 in BR days show as well as the drawings in Mike King’s book.  The drawings also confirms the first and third class layout is as per the model. No doubt the location of 1st class seating within the set was chosen to give direct access from the entrance vestibule and be a standalone  dedicated area without access from Third class which would be the case if positioned at the connecting corridor end of the coach.

 

Also a picture again in  Mike King’s book of set 374 in SR says shows the smoking area is as per the model.

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On 21/01/2021 at 21:45, trainfan101 said:

No-one else has mentioned what seems to me to be a glaring error.  On the driving brake, the "first" and "third" letterings are swapped as their location on the body does not match the  seating layout.  Unless of course, this is an alternative reality and the 1st class passengers sat sideways on the long benches! 

Actually, perhaps it's not the lettering that's swapped, as it looks like the seating  layout has been incorrectly modelled - the length of coach with "first" seats is longer than that for "third", which doesn't seem right.

There is a partition at the non-driving end. Is that for a smoking section? If so, why are "smoking" signs not fitted as with the composite coach?

These are lovely coaches.

 

4 hours ago, trainfan101 said:

Thanks for that   If the seating arrangement is correctly modelled, then the "first" and "third" signs are transposed, which is a shame.

 

The first class seating area on the Driving Trailer, until declassified, was at the driving end and was indeed inward facing side seating as per the model and therefore the positions of the designation signs on the SR olive livery version is correct, also the only smoking section provided  was in the Trailer Third only. Therefore the model does not have the "Glaring error" that you suggest without any actual evidence or research.

Edited by Graham_Muz
duplicate word removed
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On 26/01/2021 at 11:02, Graham_Muz said:

 

 

 

The first class seating area on the Driving Trailer, until declassified, was at the driving end and was indeed inward facing side seating as per the model and therefore the positions of the designation signs on the SR olive livery version is correct, also the only smoking section provided  was in the Trailer Third only. Therefore the model does not have the "Glaring error" that you suggest without any actual evidence or research.

 

Graham, you must stop letting facts get in the way of somebody's rant... ;)

 

I looked at the gate stock in the Camborne shop several times, procrastinated, missed out and kicked myself. Shall get some this time round.


Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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On 22/01/2021 at 08:29, trevor7598 said:

One boob that EFE have perpetuated with the latest Southern Olive batch

is the printing of the wood effect droplights on the ' glass ' rather than the

representation of the droplight frame.

As far as I can see this only affects the lined olive coaches.

1228736251_smallvent.jpg.de3ffcbbfca8b3459021325748bf98c8.jpg

I thought today I would have ago at fixing this slight discrepancy.

20210130_160239.jpg.7b94e8436175e1a51220d8a705b1d2b9.jpg

That looks better dosent it.

More on my blog as to how easy it is.

https://cpineroad.blogspot.com/2021/01/kernow-or-is-it-efe-gate-stock.html

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On 10/01/2021 at 20:04, adb968008 said:

Are wooden

 

Bluebell has a number of vehicles with mansell wheels, I believe some were recently mainline registered and towed to Kings Cross for a film production.


(not my video).

 

 

I do not know if they are “new” wheels or restored, but this vehicle stands out, in that its yet to be restored, but VCTs detail suggests it was taken out of passenger service in 1941, to departmental service, and its still got them, in its current unrestored state. Its been at Bluebell since 1972.


http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=335

 

 

 

 

It was for the film "Wonder Woman" set at the end of World War One.

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