Kernow commission ex LSWR Gate Stock Pull Push Sets

[Peter Bedding]

John and Edwardian,

 

There are more issues (for you) than just the driving ends of the Gate Sets as I understand it. In common with many old coaches from all companies, some or all of the original panelling got removed and/or sheeted over commencing in the 1930s, to cover up rot repairs and simplify cleaning and maintenance but, primarily, to make them look somewhat less ancient than they actually were! It appears, from the pre-prod photos I have seen, that Kernow's models will incorporate these changes with the running numbers chosen to fit the specification and livery. 

 

I've been hacking plastic models around long enough to know that, if one is sufficiently determined/reckless, almost anything is possible. However, I have also learned (the hard way) that there comes a point when it is a darned sight easier just to build a kit. 

 

When all of us who model the late 1930s through to the end of UK steam have disappeared through "natural wastage", the reason for the r-t-r trade to be the size it is will be gone.

 

Enthusiasts for earlier times will, undoubtedly, enjoy a more level playing field but, perhaps, one the size of a pool table rather than a football pitch. The companies which cater for the present demographic will certainly not continue to operate at today's level and many will decide to make other things altogether. Consider too, that many of the businesses currently supplying pre-group kits and components are run by persons now in their 60s and older - not all will outlast their proprietors.

 

Without suggesting cynicism on the part of Hornby et al, we live in an age of r-t-r plenty that is rooted in catering for a clientele that will not be replaced; a generation of the retired and early-retired with the income from decent company pensions to finance their hobbies and interests. "Now" may well be as good as it ever gets.............

 

John

 

 

There has been a particular interest in "Gate Stock" for many years; the Portland and Plymouth sets being the subject of articles in the model press. I believe that the pair shown in this photograph may not have been an intended pair but two singletons marshalled to serve the Bere Alston to Callington service. Perhaps a Forum reader can add the history. My guess is that Sets 360 and 361 were involved. The front coach was identified as 6557.

 

PB

 

[chris45lsw]

There has been a particular interest in "Gate Stock" for many years; the Portland and Plymouth sets being the subject of articles in the model press. I believe that the pair shown in this photograph may not have been an intended pair but two singletons marshalled to serve the Bere Alston to Callington service. Perhaps a Forum reader can add the history. My guess is that Sets 360 and 361 were involved. The front coach was identified as 6557.

 

PB

 

Gate 6557.jpg

These are 6557 and 6558 which operated, both solo and together, on the Callington branch until withdrawal in April 1956.  Along with set 361 (6548 + 741), also on the Callington branch until withdrawn March 1956, these four comprised the only survivors converted from former LSWR steam railmotors which made it into BR days.

 

Originally there were 31 "gate" coaches of 12 different (though only 11 max at any one time) diagrams.  16 cars were converted from steam railmotors and 15 were built new.  By the end of World War 2 only 13 survived and three more went before BR came into being on 1 Jan 1948.  The ten BR acquisitions were the four ex railmotors, 6557/58 & set 361, and the three sets commissioned by Kernow.

 

It occurs to me that creditable models of 6548 and 6557/58 could be made by a rather expensive "cut & shut" of Kernow's models!  Obviously a new ex driving end would be required.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[olivegreen]

 

 

But I insist that goods rolling stock such as coal wagons, clay wagons, vans must be in pooled post war pre-nationalization condition. SR coaches must be in SR olive or malachite green.  There are limits

Oh how I agree with that statement. Oh, yes!

[ndg910]

Kernow have posted a photo of the new tooling for the gate stock in HK on their Facebook page. Am quietly confident that good progress is being made. Well done Kernow for keeping us up to date.

[Peter Bedding]

I guess others will also be in the queue for a pair of these 56ft pull-push carriages with the scroll-gates. Correspondence (above) has also made reference to other types of Gatestock, which I believe may have been alternatively described as Vestibule stock. One of these pairs was recorded at Wadebridge immediately post-war in unlined Maunsell green. The photo below caught my eye some years ago. If any reader wishes to lay an ownership claim, I would be delighted either to give full credit where due,  or to delete, whichever is required.

 

 

 

 Set 361 is recorded as comprising one 50' 0" Semi Gangway Open Brake Composite to Diagram 415, plus a 48'3" Gangway Open Trailer Third to Diagram 28. Both withdrawn March 1956.

 

With the 58ft Rebuilds, the O2s, and 0415s, even a modest shunting plank can look good.

 

PB

Edited April 25, 2016 by Peter Bedding

[Peter Bedding]

I have received a most helpful email from member John Flann, to which he attached an historic photograph:

 

 

This picture was taken as part of a family record during a pre-war train journey on Portland. The stock is particularly interesting. The loco depicts the side tank repair plate on a mainland O2. The rake of carriages appears to be consistent with Set 371. This Set, together with Set 370 was damaged/partially destroyed in an air raid in 1941.

 

The coach nearest to the camera might then be a 50'0" Brake Composite to Diagram 415, either number 6554 or 6555. The low arc-roofed coach 3rd from the camera might be the 48' 3" Open 3rd to Diagram 28, number 740. I should add that my coach records are not as accurate as I would wish, and I am sure that other Forum members can do better.

 

Even if a manufacturer, like Kernow, should choose not to extend the range of r-t-r gate stock, I like to speculate on a cut and shut conversion of the upcoming 56'0" coaches from Kernow.

 

PB

[chris45lsw]

I have received a most helpful email from member John Flann, to which he attached an historic photograph:

 

41.1Page 14.01-1.jpg

 

This picture was taken as part of a family record during a pre-war train journey on Portland. The stock is particularly interesting. The loco depicts the side tank repair plate on a mainland O2. The rake of carriages appears to be consistent with Set 371. This Set, together with Set 370 was damaged/partially destroyed in an air raid in 1941.

 

The coach nearest to the camera might then be a 50'0" Brake Composite to Diagram 415, either number 6554 or 6555. The low arc-roofed coach 3rd from the camera might be the 48' 3" Open 3rd to Diagram 28, number 740. I should add that my coach records are not as accurate as I would wish, and I am sure that other Forum members can do better.

 

Even if a manufacturer, like Kernow, should choose not to extend the range of r-t-r gate stock, I like to speculate on a cut and shut conversion of the upcoming 56'0" coaches from Kernow.

 

PB

Actually I believe it is the other set, 370!  The nearest coach would be 56ft brake compo 6544 or 6543 of 1909 to SR diagram 413 (almost identical to Kernow's 1914 BC/BT to diag. 414/129 except with different gates).  Next is the solitary 1909 56ft third 736 to diag. 26 (possibly a candidate for cutting Kernow's 1914 third).  The third arc roofed vehicle is another one off; the 53ft 10.25in third 743 to diag. 30.  This was converted in 1922 from one of the joint LSWR/LBSCR railmotors.  Out of sight, the fourth coach should be one of the 50ft brake compos to diag. 415 converted from H13 class railmotors, No. 6553.  It might be possible to hack a reasonable semblance of these from Kernow's brake compos/thirds!

 

I know incomes have gone up as well as prices but psychologically I find it difficult to contemplate sawing up a pair of coaches that have cost me £99 whereas, more years ago than I care to contemplate, I used to butcher Triang GWR clerestory bodies and Kitmaster Mark 1s etc with 'gay' abandon!  But then they cost me 7 shillings (35p) and 6s 6d (32.5p) respectively!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas  

[Peter Bedding]

Actually I believe it is the other set, 370!  The nearest coach would be 56ft brake compo 6544 or 6543 of 1909 to SR diagram 413 (almost identical to Kernow's 1914 BC/BT to diag. 414/129 except with different gates).  Next is the solitary 1909 56ft third 736 to diag. 26 (possibly a candidate for cutting Kernow's 1914 third).  The third arc roofed vehicle is another one off; the 53ft 10.25in third 743 to diag. 30.  This was converted in 1922 from one of the joint LSWR/LBSCR railmotors.  Out of sight, the fourth coach should be one of the 50ft brake compos to diag. 415 converted from H13 class railmotors, No. 6553.  It might be possible to hack a reasonable semblance of these from Kernow's brake compos/thirds!

 

I know incomes have gone up as well as prices but psychologically I find it difficult to contemplate sawing up a pair of coaches that have cost me £99 whereas, more years ago than I care to contemplate, I used to butcher Triang GWR clerestory bodies and Kitmaster Mark 1s etc with 'gay' abandon!  But then they cost me 7 shillings (35p) and 6s 6d (32.5p) respectively!

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas  

 

Chris, many thanks indeed for your reply and definitive information. Much welcomed. I had rather suspected that my tentative pre-assessment would not survive any length of time! We can only hope that some gifted cutter can now show us how to produce further vehicles/diagrams from the basic r-t-r vehicle, in the way that Mr Terry Gough produced a number of very worthwhile vehicles from the Triang Clerestory starting point. Was that really 45 years ago? 

 

Be well. 

PB

[chris45lsw]

Chris, many thanks indeed for your reply and definitive information. Much welcomed. I had rather suspected that my tentative pre-assessment would not survive any length of time! We can only hope that some gifted cutter can now show us how to produce further vehicles/diagrams from the basic r-t-r vehicle, in the way that Mr Terry Gough produced a number of very worthwhile vehicles from the Triang Clerestory starting point. Was that really 45 years ago? 

 

Be well. 

PB

I wish it wasn't that long ago, but in fact it was getting on for 50 years ago (Railway Modeller Aug 1966 to Feb1968) when Terry Gough's articles appeared!

 

Best regards

Chris KT

[paulaspinell]

_{Has anyone heard any more news on these as there have been announcements about other future releases(ie:-the 4TC sets) but nothing about the gate stock sets).}

[Dunsignalling]

Chris, many thanks indeed for your reply and definitive information. Much welcomed. I had rather suspected that my tentative pre-assessment would not survive any length of time! We can only hope that some gifted cutter can now show us how to produce further vehicles/diagrams from the basic r-t-r vehicle, in the way that Mr Terry Gough produced a number of very worthwhile vehicles from the Triang Clerestory starting point. Was that really 45 years ago? 

 

Be well. 

PB

Yes, it was!

 

He also described how to turn the generic OO Farish coaches into LSWR 'Ironclads' IIRC.

 

John

[roythebus]

The 7/- and the 10/6d for Kitmaster kits and Triang clerestory coaches was a lot of money 50 years ago! 

[darren01]

Wow,  Almost five years since these where first  announced, 

[pete_mcfarlane]

I wonder how Dapol will cover the various panelling permutations - photos show these coaches ended up with most of the panelling replaced by steel sheeting. If they are due in 12-18 months I may even have got round to building the Craftsman T1 in my to do pile so I'll have a suitable loco.

I finished the T1 about 3 years ago, and I'm not one for building stuff quickly. Still waiting for the coaches......

[olivegreen]

Just be grateful that they weren't proposed by a large company which puts things in blue boxes….

 

 

(Hat, coat etc…)

[PrestburyJack]

Wow, Almost five years since these were first announced,

At least everyone should have had time to save up for them!

[Dunsignalling]

The 7/- and the 10/6d for Kitmaster kits and Triang clerestory coaches was a lot of money 50 years ago! 

Very true. The Clerestories represented four week's pocket money apiece for me when they came out and I wasn't about to start sawing them up............

 

John

[JSpencer]

Wow,  Almost five years since these where first  announced, 

 

Between the announcement and now, Hornby announced and delivered their own Maunsell  type push pull coaches (even producing extra batches each year), then announced and delivered a 4 car set of LSWR Maunsell rebuilds. Bachmann have announced and just delivered EPs of the birdcages.

 

In fairness though, relations with the original supplier Dapol went sour and progress was only made with DJM, whereby we soon saw cads and EPs. Unless the tooling is being corrected (Kernow do like to get these things right), it not would surprise me if we will decorated samples at Warley, where they like to show off news.

 

Now, if we talk about Bullied diesels, things are very silent indeed, but this requires an expert producing a supper fine model in O-gauge which is then scanned to be produced like the D6XX. I feel deliver just in time for Napoleon's bicentenary of death is just about possible for those.

 

It generally takes 3 years if the prototype exists, can be scanned and the manufacturer does not put on hold or leads to a breakdown. Anything else increases that delay.

[Graham_Muz]

In an ideal world and with the resources available to the major manufactures I am sure Kernow Model Centre would have preferred to get these to market sooner.

 

Time is being taken to get these as accurate as possible, and since the first EPs some changes have been made and the second EPs are now awaited, so watch this space.

[Coombe Barton]

To anyone who can't wait, there's always brass sheet and a piercing saw.

[Caddy]

Chris, many thanks indeed for your reply and definitive information. Much welcomed. I had rather suspected that my tentative pre-assessment would not survive any length of time! We can only hope that some gifted cutter can now show us how to produce further vehicles/diagrams from the basic r-t-r vehicle, in the way that Mr Terry Gough produced a number of very worthwhile vehicles from the Triang Clerestory starting point. Was that really 45 years ago? 

 

Be well. 

PB

Way back in November 2011 when I ordered my K1004 set I decided to amend the timetable on my layout to incorporate the set. As a stand in for a "few months", I happily butchered some old clerestories I had to make up a "stop gap" set. Well they have been in service for nearly 5 years now!!!!!!

 

I do apologise to any modellers of a more sensitive disposition if they look at the attached photo but I love my set 30 and who knows it may yet see me out. Mind you I never thought I would live to see an Adams Radial, USA Tank and O2 running on the layout. Just have to keep breathing......

[rembrow]

Kernow have announced this afternoon that they have received the 2nd ep samples of all the Gate Stock versions, which will be tested before moving to livery.

[rue_d_etropal]

I noticed pre-order price had gone up, was sure it was £99, but is now £10 more. Very tempted ,as it looks like it is getting closer.

 

Caddy, I would not be bothered by sensitive souls. I just wish Hornby would bring out these excellent clerestory coaches in various pre-grouping livery. Maybe also an alternative roof. Would be better than than those 4 wheelers they seem to turn out in a variety of colours.

Edited October 28, 2016 by rue_d_etropal

[NHY 581]

Still looking forward to these. I am confident these coaches will set new standards when they arrive.....

 

No doubt.

 

Rob.

[woodenhead]

Glad I ordered on Thursday evening then, I did suspect a price rise might be coming.

 

Just looked again, they've gone up £20 to £119.

 

Picked up a Maunsell Green M7 today for £84 mint and a Maunsell Green T9 for £99, I seem to be having good week price wise.

Edited October 29, 2016 by woodenhead