Wright writes.....

[richard i]

Thks for the feedback on my bargain A2 kit.  The kit contains two double chimneys so I think it will eventually become Sugar Palm, a York loco all its life.  No special reason for this name except it appears to be the most photogenic of the non Scots based locos.  Did DJS ever make the frames substantial.  I had to rework the frames because they were more than a little out of alignment and even my 80W iron couldn't get them unsoldered.  Ended up using a mini butane torch.  Anyway now back together and waiting to find someone who can drill out the axel holes because my old cheap vertical drip has a bit of runout and the existing holes are a bit of a mess.  Some are as supplied by DJH and apparently do not need bushings, the wheels axels fitting straight into the frame.  Two have been drilled out and have had bushing put in.  I will drill them all out and put in bushings

Open them out with a broach so that the bearings are a snug fit. File a couple of strokes on the up side of the centre axle to ensure it does not rock because that one is too low.

Richard

[AndyID]

Consider a Spring on the bogie pin

 

You could do that, but it will also transfer some of the locomotive's weight to the non-driven wheels and that will reduce its hauling capacity (traction).

Edited November 25, 2018 by AndyID

[AndyID]

 If you are incredibly surefooted and can produce high levels of torque, you had better have a strong crank axle, as extreme force applied is less likely to be dissipated by slipping.

 

 

Probably, but the P1 had significantly smaller wheels which means the P1's were much more likely to slip before they broke the axle. (I'm assuming the P1 and P2 used a common axle design but I really don't know if they did.)

[Headstock]

Probably, but the P1 had significantly smaller wheels which means the P1's were much more likely to slip before they broke the axle. (I'm assuming the P1 and P2 used a common axle design but I really don't know if they did.)

 

Wheel size is only one part of the equation and shouldn't be looked at in isolation. Irrespective of wheel size, the important considerations are the weight on the axle and the amount of force a locomotive can deploy. Wheel size will effect that force but so will many other considerations, such as boiler pressure and cylinder volume etc. It is impossible to determine how likely a P1 would be to slip based on wheel size alone. A calculation of the factor of adhesion would indicate similar figures for both P2 and P1, both could deploy their own maximum theoretical tractive effort without fear of the wheels slipping under normal rail conditions (normal rail conditions is expressed as a coefficieny of 0.25, that represents and adhesive factor of 4). Yet one class of locomotive broke crank axles and the other did not. The P2 could deploy a higher tractive force than the P1, so even if the crank axle design was identical on the two locomotives (Idon't know if it was), the maximum force that the P1 could use may have been well within the design tolerance of the crank axle, while the P2 overloaded it.

 

Both locomotives had enough adhesive weight to ensure that when force was applied they would not slip excessively under normal operating conditions, bearing mind that adhesion at the wheel rim is variable on steam locomotives due to a number of factors. In the case of the P2, the direct force on the crank pin is more relevant to damage as this is close enough to the crank axle for the measured force to be the same, unlike that at the wheel rim were the force falls off as wheel diameter increases.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Headstock

[Theakerr]

Re the A2.  Two axle holes already have bushings in them and I don't know why, but one must suspect something went wrong and these are 'corrective actions'.  One axel hole in the frame has a lot of 'slop'  So I have to question just how well and aligned the complete assembly is, especially since I have rebuilt the frame and it is now square.  Thus my plan, when I can find someone with a good vertical drill, is to drill the frames making sure the holes on each frame side are in alignment and to insert the standard Romford bushings.  I do plan on drilling them a 'tad' undersize so that I can ream them out and make adjustments for the centre axle if required.  

[jrg1]

Re the A2.  Two axle holes already have bushings in them and I don't know why, but one must suspect something went wrong and these are 'corrective actions'.  One axel hole in the frame has a lot of 'slop'  So I have to question just how well and aligned the complete assembly is, especially since I have rebuilt the frame and it is now square.  Thus my plan, when I can find someone with a good vertical drill, is to drill the frames making sure the holes on each frame side are in alignment and to insert the standard Romford bushings.  I do plan on drilling them a 'tad' undersize so that I can ream them out and make adjustments for the centre axle if required.  

An ideal situation to set up the bearings with a Chassis jig, using the rods.  Failing that, if you are drilling holes for bushes, align the first hole with the drill, clamp the frames to a straight edge, and move the frames down the straight edge as you pilot drill them, to get them in line.  Open out to slightly undersize, and broach to fit the bearings

[micklner]

Re the A2.  Two axle holes already have bushings in them and I don't know why, but one must suspect something went wrong and these are 'corrective actions'.  One axel hole in the frame has a lot of 'slop'  So I have to question just how well and aligned the complete assembly is, especially since I have rebuilt the frame and it is now square.  Thus my plan, when I can find someone with a good vertical drill, is to drill the frames making sure the holes on each frame side are in alignment and to insert the standard Romford bushings.  I do plan on drilling them a 'tad' undersize so that I can ream them out and make adjustments for the centre axle if required.  

 

A photo or two would help. You need to be very careful ,otherwise the chassis will be scrap if the holes end up out of line.

[rowanj]

A photo or two would help. You need to be very careful ,otherwise the chassis will be scrap if the holes end up out of line.

I agree with Mick, we need to see a photo..and must say I'm puzzled by the problem.DJH chassis all screw together using spacers and should all, in my view, have axle bearings fitted,..though I find the axle holes invariably need reaming. Perhaps the previous owner has made a fist of the assembly, but I can't see drilling new holes is going to sort it out easily. DJH frames are a bit like a battleship, but are usully very accurste.

Unless you think the chassis sides have been altered somehow, I suggest you assemble the sides with tapped spacers and screws using the pre.drilled holes and see if it is square.

 

I see you have settled on Sugar Palm, so you will want to fabricate the M. Valve rodding and cover..a fiddly job but doable.

 

Good luck

 

John

[Tony Wright]

Having just returned from an excellent weekend at Warley, I'd like to thank all those who've made comment on here in my absence.

 

Just pulling a few things together.................... My mention of the work of the professional railwaymen who worked with both the original P2s and the A2/2s was not anecdotal; in a couple of cases it's from first-hand notes, made at the time (before the men's sons were born!)

 

I see no point in continuing the discussion about the 'highly-dangerous' P2s (if some comments are to believed). All I'd say is that, although the science of locomotive metallurgy at the time was not as advanced as it is today, I cannot believe that it was a more economical and sensible move to rebuild them into (useless on their own road) Pacifics than it would have been to investigate beefing up the crank axle and redesigning the leading pony truck. According to two of the last (post-War) premium apprentices at Doncaster I spoke with, not a fraction of the rebuilding expenditure  was recovered through improved efficiency and lower maintenance costs. In fact, it's probable that the A2/s were actually less economical overall than the P2s, and they couldn't do the same work!  

 

Balancing 4-4-0s? Try resting the front end of the tender on the back end of the loco.

 

DJH A2s? Here are the three I've built for service on LB...........

 

 

In single-chimney style, Scottish-allocated 60528 on a running-in turn from the Plant. Painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

In double-chimney style, and with multiple valve regulator equipment (scratch-built, because it's not supplied by DJH), York's 60526. Painted by Geoff Haynes. 

 

 

Double chimney, but ordinary regulator; 60539, the last-built. Painted by Ian Rathbone. I'm not sure about the red-backed nameplate. I built this loco for Right Tracks 1 & 2.

 

Any more Peppercorn A2s out there? 

 

More on Warley tomorrow. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Tony Wright

[jrg1]

I agree with Mick, we need to see a photo..and must say I'm puzzled by the problem.DJH chassis all screw together using spacers and should all, in my view, have axle bearings fitted,..though I find the axle holes invariably need reaming. Perhaps the previous owner has made a fist of the assembly, but I can't see drilling new holes is going to sort it out easily. DJH frames are a bit like a battleship, but are usully very accurste.

Unless you think the chassis sides have been altered somehow, I suggest you assemble the sides with tapped spacers and screws using the pre.drilled holes and see if it is square.

 

I see you have settled on Sugar Palm, so you will want to fabricate the M. Valve rodding and cover..a fiddly job but doable.

 

Good luck

 

John

Try setting it up with the screwed spacers, and use rods (eg Welding rods) threaded through the axle holes to check alignment.  Any misalignment will immediately be seen.

[Barry O]

Try setting it up with the screwed spacers, and use rods (eg Welding rods) threaded through the axle holes to check alignment.  Any misalignment will immediately be seen.

Just use a Poppys chassis jig...it really helps you to get frames square and true!

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

Just to pick up on Warley once more.......................................

 

May I please thank all those with whom I spoke over the weekend? It really was a most-enjoyable experience.

 

Though I wasn't very successful with my loco-doctoring, thanks to several most-generous donations, Mo and I brought home £37.50 for CRUK. 

 

Speaking of donations..........

 

 

Phil Bancroft brought this loco along. It was one of the last of the late Geoff Brewin's creations. Before his death, Geoff was proprietor of Comet Models, and developed a new motor/gearbox combination as a sort of Portescap replacement. He used a very-powerful Maxon motor and a new gearbox. He put the prototype of it into this, a Silver Fox resin-bodied 71000 on top of a Comet set of frames. 

 

After completing some minor repairs this morning, I tried it out on LB. After loading it up to 18 kit-built bogies, I didn't bother any more. It just toyed with them, fairly romping round. The body is packed with lead and the drive is very quiet and extremely powerful. 

 

What then? Though I'd admit it's not top-drawer painting, it's a very good runner. Phil has kindly donated it to be sold, with every penny raised going to CRUK. Anyone interested? He tried to sell it on eBay for around £200.00, but it didn't go. Since the motor/gearbox combo is close to £100.00 (maybe more?), I was surprised, though there is the Hornby RTR offering. 

 

If anyone is interested in this model (for less than £200.00, obviously), please PM me with what you'd like to offer. 

 

The most interesting thing for me at Warley? The announcement that Accurascale is going to do a 4mm Deltic. Wow! I'll be sending the firm a disc of my Deltic pictures and writing some notes.

 

May I thank all the organisers of the Warley show for putting on such an excellent event? 

[Tony Wright]

Great news,

 

DoG has sold for £200.00.

 

Thanks Al.

[rowanj]

Do you remember when we used to model like this? I'm converting a Mainline J72 to J71 using thr Mainly Trains kit, so bought the relevant Yeadon.. I thus discovered that, by BR days, the J72's had their Ross Pop valves covered by a trumpet. My ancient J72. 867844 had the valves exposed, so, of course, I needed to remedy that. But I decided to go the whole hog and make mine vacuum fitted, fit the missing sanding gear, and add lamp irons (in case I ever fit lamps, Tony). The loco represents an LNER - build, 67842, which was at Heaton, so fits in nicely with my layout location,

 

I suppose I could have waited for the new Bachmann RTR...…. and blast, the cab roof is askew...

 

Cheers...John

[Chamby]

I made the trip upcountry this year to visit the Warley show, I think it’s the seventh or eighth year I have been, and it was probably the one I have enjoyed the most - because I think I have finally cracked how to get the most out of this monster exhibition. I arrived early on the Saturday, and went first to a couple of stands to pick up items that I thought might sell out quickly. Stirling single stowed safely in my bag (I admit it, the sound fitted version), I started at the back of the hall where things were nice and quiet, and slowly and methodically worked the aisles back towards the front of the hall.

 

I spent a lot more time mooching around the smaller stands and demonstrations this year, chatting with the owners and demonstrators and learned a lot. It was great to finally meet Tony and Mo... you must have been very hoarse by the end of Sunday! I admire the patience and time you gave to people, as much as the standard of modelling. Much appreciated, thank you.

 

The 3D prototype model of the new Deltic from Accurascale looked stunning, they are working hard to produce something special there. And again, nice guys on the stand sharing their vision and enthusiasm with ordinary types like me. They and Rapido really seem to be picking up momentum compared to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby, and I wish them success.

 

I was less struck by the layouts this year. Liverpool Lime Street was the stand out layout for me, the attention to detail in the scenic modelling was stunning, and they always had stuff moving. A great example of how to operate a large exhibition layout. I also enjoyed a few of the smaller layouts like Exbury, whose owners also engaged with the public enthusiastically... and I even came away with a model-u figure of Ali (of blue spotted 50’s dress fame) for my own layout. Many otherwise excellent layouts though were let down by lack of up-front activity or constant fumbling hands re-railing or prodding stubborn locomotives.

 

I came away with a strong sense that the social aspects of the hobby are really alive and well. It was the personal engagements that stood out for me this year. If we can keep that going, then railway modelling has a good future ahead of it.

 

Back home, first impressions of the sound fitted Stirling Single are excellent. It needs a little fettling, and I will upgrade the speaker, but otherwise it sounds rather nice straight out of the box.

 

Phil.

 

Edited following Sir’s correction!

Edited November 26, 2018 by Chamby

[Lecorbusier]

Just to pick up on Warley once more.......................................

 

 

 

May I thank all the organisers of the Warley show for putting on such an excellent event? 

Tony,

 

Looking at the layouts listed as being at the show, I note that Sidmouth was there?

 

Given that we had a little discussion about this layout a few months ago and I recall you were somewhat less than impressed by the quality of the running at the show you were then attending, I wondered whether this aspect had improved at all since you last saw it?

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Looking at the layouts listed as being at the show, I note that Sidmouth was there?

 

Given that we had a little discussion about this layout a few months ago and I recall you were somewhat less than impressed by the quality of the running at the show you were then attending, I wondered whether this aspect had improved at all since you last saw it?

Tim,

 

I hardly had chance to look round the show - one of the down sides of being privileged to be one of the demonstrators. I thus saw nothing of Sidmouth, so, I'm afraid, I cannot comment. 

 

However, I did see the 'winning layout' from the TV series (very briefly), though it was usually surrounded by visitors (which says something). If this sort of thing is the hobby's future, then so be it. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

I made the trip upcountry this year to visit the Warley show, I think it’s the seventh or eighth year I have been, and it was probably the one I have enjoyed the most - because I think I have finally cracked how to get the most out of this monster exhibition. I arrived early on the Saturday, and went first to a couple of stands to pick up items that I thought might sell out quickly. Stirling single stowed safely in my bag (I admit it, the sound fitted version), I started at the back of the hall where things were nice and quiet, and slowly and methodically worked the aisles back towards the front of the hall.

 

I spent a lot more time mooching around the smaller stands and demonstrations this year, chatting with the owners and demonstrators and learned a lot. It was great to finally meet Tony and Mo... you must have been very hoarse by the end of Sunday! I admire the patience and time you gave to people, as much as the standard of modelling. Much appreciated, thank you.

 

The 3D prototype model of the new Deltic from Accucraft looked stunning, they are working hard to produce something special there. And again, nice guys on the stand sharing their vision and enthusiasm with ordinary types like me. They and Rapido really seem to be picking up momentum compared to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby, and I wish them success.

 

I was less struck by the layouts this year. Liverpool Lime Street was the stand out layout for me, the attention to detail in the scenic modelling was stunning, and they always had stuff moving. A great example of how to operate a large exhibition layout. I also enjoyed a few of the smaller layouts like Exbury, whose owners also engaged with the public enthusiastically... and I even came away with a model-u figure of Ali (of blue spotted 50’s dress fame) for my own layout. Many otherwise excellent layouts though were let down by lack of up-front activity or constant fumbling hands re-railing or prodding stubborn locomotives.

 

I came away with a strong sense that the social aspects of the hobby are really alive and well. It was the personal engagements that stood out for me this year. If we can keep that going, then railway modelling has a good future ahead of it.

 

Back home, first impressions of the sound fitted Stirling Single are excellent. It needs a little fettling, and I will upgrade the speaker, but otherwise it sounds rather nice straight out of the box.

 

Phil.

Good to meet you, too, Phil. And, really good to talk. 

 

Just one thing, if I may - it's Accurascale which is making the Deltic. 

 

I was almost hoarse by the end of Sunday, but got through. I've no idea how many folk I spoke with, but it was many! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello Tony

 

The Accurascale Deltic does look good.

 

There seems to be very little excitement about it on the DEMU forum. There is quite a bit of cheering about some modern bogie open box wagon. Is this a sign of a shift away from the more historical diesels (and electrics) by my fellow DEMU members?

 

It was nice to chat to you over lunch on Saturday.

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

The Accurascale Deltic does look good.

 

There seems to be very little excitement about it on the DEMU forum. There is quite a bit of cheering about some modern bogie open box wagon. Is this a sign of a shift away from the more historical diesels (and electrics) by my fellow DEMU members?

 

It was nice to chat to you over lunch on Saturday.

Good to talk to you as well, Clive,

 

Speaking to Patrick (of Accurascale), it would seem they're making every possible manifestation of a Deltic (including the gross Porterbrook thing), with attention to detail being paramount. 

 

With the Bachmann Deltic already having been in production for many years now (and operating on loads of layouts), I must admit I was quite surprised by the decision to make another one. That said, the Accurascale one is to come with two of the biggest speakers they can fit inside. When I videoed a Bachmann Deltic on LB (yes, Little Bytham went DCC for a day! Well, at least on circuit), the mechanical noise of the loco and the train drowned out any 'engine' noise from the small speaker. 

 

I look forward to seeing it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Manxcat]

I am very pleased to say that Accurascale will have a trade stand at Model Rail Scotland 2019 next February. I for one am looking forward to seeing their Deltic.

[thegreenhowards]

I made the trip upcountry this year to visit the Warley show, I think it’s the seventh or eighth year I have been, and it was probably the one I have enjoyed the most - because I think I have finally cracked how to get the most out of this monster exhibition. I arrived early on the Saturday, and went first to a couple of stands to pick up items that I thought might sell out quickly. Stirling single stowed safely in my bag (I admit it, the sound fitted version), I started at the back of the hall where things were nice and quiet, and slowly and methodically worked the aisles back towards the front of the hall.

I spent a lot more time mooching around the smaller stands and demonstrations this year, chatting with the owners and demonstrators and learned a lot. It was great to finally meet Tony and Mo... you must have been very hoarse by the end of Sunday! I admire the patience and time you gave to people, as much as the standard of modelling. Much appreciated, thank you.

The 3D prototype model of the new Deltic from Accurascale looked stunning, they are working hard to produce something special there. And again, nice guys on the stand sharing their vision and enthusiasm with ordinary types like me. They and Rapido really seem to be picking up momentum compared to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby, and I wish them success.

I was less struck by the layouts this year. Liverpool Lime Street was the stand out layout for me, the attention to detail in the scenic modelling was stunning, and they always had stuff moving. A great example of how to operate a large exhibition layout. I also enjoyed a few of the smaller layouts like Exbury, whose owners also engaged with the public enthusiastically... and I even came away with a model-u figure of Ali (of blue spotted 50’s dress fame) for my own layout. Many otherwise excellent layouts though were let down by lack of up-front activity or constant fumbling hands re-railing or prodding stubborn locomotives.

I came away with a strong sense that the social aspects of the hobby are really alive and well. It was the personal engagements that stood out for me this year. If we can keep that going, then railway modelling has a good future ahead of it.

Back home, first impressions of the sound fitted Stirling Single are excellent. It needs a little fettling, and I will upgrade the speaker, but otherwise it sounds rather nice straight out of the box.

Phil.

Edited following Sir’s correction!

I agree about the layouts. I found them very disappointing compared with previous years. Having said that, Liverpool Lime Street was magnificent and worth the admission price alone - I spent an hour watching that. I also enjoyed Love Lane in S7, DCC sound in 7mm sounds really good - sorry Tony! Apart from that, there was little that impressed apart from Thornbury Hill, and I’ve seen that so often I didn’t spend any time there. I watched Sidmouth for 30 seconds before something derailed and I gave up!

 

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the show, but as much for a retail and social experience as for the layouts.

 

Andy

[Theakerr]

I guess my A2 kit must be a very old one because assembly of the side frames is all solder.  One of the reasons I need to find someone with a good vertical drill or even a miniature line borer is to ensure that the axle holes do line up.  Worst case scenario is that I have to order a new set of side frames.

[john2857]

Good evening Tony,

 

It was good to meet you and Mo early on in the Warley show on Saturday morning. Thank you for such a lovely chat. We managed to cover football, psychology and smoke deflectors on Britannias. It all added up to a healthy dose of inspiration.

 

You did ask that I made myself known on here, and said that in case you didn't remember me, I was the bloke who sounded like he came from the depths of Wolverhampton.

 

Thanks again.

[chris p bacon]

Tony,

 

Looking at the layouts listed as being at the show, I note that Sidmouth was there?

 

Given that we had a little discussion about this layout a few months ago and I recall you were somewhat less than impressed by the quality of the running at the show you were then attending, I wondered whether this aspect had improved at all since you last saw it?

 

 

I saw Sidmouth several times during the day on Sunday, The running was faultless and I think it an exceptional layout.

 

It picked up the William McAlpine trophy as well as the best 4mm layout award, both well deserved.