Dapol Class 121 and 122 in OO gauge

[br2975]

A question for the DMU cognoscenti (poshspeak for those that know) .This new model has a personal appeal for me as in the winter of 1965/6 I would catch the Bridgend-Treherbert bubble car for the short distance to & fro Blaenrhondda to change to the Treherbert-Queen Street service (easier& cheaper than the Rhondda bus ). So would it have been 121 or 122 ?

 

 

 

As Chris F has mentioned, due solely to numbers, Cl.121 units were more common than the Cl.122.

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I have seen photos of Cl.122 units so employed, but they are the exception.

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The 1966 local diagram book had two single units working the Bridgend - Treherbert service, one extending to Pontypridd on a Saturday (Ponty Market anyone ?) as a four car set.

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I often wondered how they got to Canton for maintenance, until Bob Masterman produced a shot of a Cl.121 on the front of a Treherbert - Cardiff service at Taffs Well.

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Brian R

[chrisf]

I've got a blind here, bought at Canton open day yonks ago........I couldn't swear it's from a 122, but there are or seem to be dozens and dozens of destinations S on there.

 

I assume that each class had its own roller destination Blind?

 

I always thought they were region specific and generic?

 

My understanding is that each depot had its own blind.  There were several incarnations of some - Tyseley, for instance, was initially responsible for about 30 suburban sets, a few bubble cars and some Cross-Country sets.  The destinations to be found on the blind would, one might think, cover the whole sphere of the depot's operations. Eventually two things happened.  The sphere of operations changed with Beeching and other closures and the units thus released were deployed over an enlarged territory.  Tyseley was moved from the Western Region to the London Midland and became responsible for units operating half across the country and on the Cross-City Line so new blinds would have been required.  The other reason is that blinds break or wear out eventually.

 

A blind found at Canton could be off a Cross-Country set, a Valley Lines unit or, exceptionally, one of the Newport non-corridor sets maintained at Canton but based at Godfrey Road and transferred away in 1962.  The blind from a Valley Lines set in 1987 would be a different animal from those in use 30 years earlier.  The original blind would have included places like Cardiff (Clarence Road), closed in 1964, while the 1987 blind would have referred to Cardiff Central instead of General and included new destinations such as Aber, one stop north of Caerphilly, which was used as a turnback for a few years until a new crossover was installed at Caerphilly.

 

I don't suppose you fancy unrolling your blind ...?

 

Chris 

[dibber25]

Id like to see it try to pull a dead pendolino though!

The Dapol model would do it - no trouble! The review sample took 9 coaches up a 1 in 30!! When the Travelling College train was unveiled to the press at Old Oak Common they hauled all 10 coaches and a dead Deltic out of the shed with a two-car Class 101! Wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it, but I even have pictures. (CJL)

[The Johnster]

I've got a blind here, bought at Canton open day yonks ago........I couldn't swear it's from a 122, but there are or seem to be dozens and dozens of destinations S on there.

 

I assume that each class had its own roller destination Blind?

 

I always thought they were region specific and generic?

 

IIRC the blinds were a standard fitting that could be used on any dmu, and were issued to depots to cover their areas, so they were depot rather than class specific, and classes could be swapped between duties if necessary.  There was a firm in North Wales, Bangor or Conway or somewhere like that, which made them to order for rail and bus customers all over the world.  If a set or bubble car was transferred to another area, the depot losing it should, in theory, have removed the blinds (they were a sort of sprung bayonet fitting like roller blinds), and returned it to stores, while the new depot should, in theory, have had a stock of blinds to fit to new arrivals before they went into service; it was a very simple job.  In theory, that is; it didn't always work that way on the ground hence the 'Ystrad Mynach' seen at Paddington.  As Chris F has said, your blind could have come off a 116, 119, or 120, set , or possibly a 121; AFA\iK 123s did not use blinds, or spent some of it's life on a mixture of some or all of those, in fact any of those options are more likely than it coming off or ever having been on a 122, but that is not to say that such a thing was impossible!

 

They were fairly comprehensive in the late 50s, having to cover all the possible destinations served by units from that depot, at Canton anywhere from Pembroke Dock to Birmingham (Snow Hill), not to mention Weymouth, Portsmouth, and Taunton,  and including the Cardiff Division and Newport Division Valleys branches; much of this had gone by the early 70s of course, but we still had some blinds that preserved their memory and I was once told off for appearing at Cardiff Central with 'Barry Pier' instead of 'Barry Island' on the front of my train!  They did wear out, being printed canvas rolls which frayed and tore with use, jammed, or faded, so were occasionally replaced. As well as the destinations there were, cf course, 'Special', 'Excursion', 'Private' and so on.

[BlackRat]

I don't suppose you fancy unrolling your blind ...?

 

Chris

 

When I get 5 mins yes no prob.

 

This one is printed on acetate? Standard BR typeface in black lettering.

Edited July 10, 2017 by BlackRat

[Roy Langridge]

There is this resource available if it helps anybody: http://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/destination-blinds/

 

Roy

[Gwiwer]

Some other destinations, prompted by the shot at Staines West. As the units worked that service they also had

 

WEST DRAYTON

AND YIEWSLEY

 

UXBRIDGE

(VINE STREET)

 

EALING

BROADWAY

 

For trips to the end of the line two displays were available according to (expected) platforming.

 

PADDINGTON

(SUBURBAN)

 

PADDINGTON

(MAIN)

 

The solitary PADDINGTON came later, probably in the early blue era, and was never accompanied nor replaced by LONDON.

[chrisf]

When I get 5 mins yes no prob.

 

This one is printed on acetate? Standard BR typeface in black lettering.

 

That sounds like one out of a Sprinter or Pacer.  Interesting nonetheless.

 

Chris

[br2975]

 

I don't suppose you fancy unrolling your blind ...?

 

 

Is that a coded request of some sort Mr. F. ?

Edited July 11, 2017 by br2975

[Pteremy]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned Taunton-Barnstaple? 'Taunton' certainly visibly in use in 1965. But in 1966 the destination name is just a blank. 

[pendlerail]

Ran mine at the club last night both directions ran well and very quiet. Happy with it. Now just to chip it :-)

[dibber25]

Some other destinations, prompted by the shot at Staines West. As the units worked that service they also had

 

WEST DRAYTON

AND YIEWSLEY

 

UXBRIDGE

(VINE STREET)

 

EALING

BROADWAY

 

For trips to the end of the line two displays were available according to (expected) platforming.

 

PADDINGTON

(SUBURBAN)

 

PADDINGTON

(MAIN)

 

The solitary PADDINGTON came later, probably in the early blue era, and was never accompanied nor replaced by LONDON.

 

The Class 121 destinations will be interesting to see. Around 1959, when the A30 Staines by-pass was being designed, there was a proposal to close Staines West station and divert the West Drayton service over the 1941 spur onto the SR Windsor lines and into Staines Central station. The plan came to nought but many of the DMUs that were new in 1960 received blinds with just STAINES on them. Thus, right through to 1981 and the very last excursion over the line, some units showed STAINES WEST and others just STAINES. (CJL)

[wombatofludham]

I do recall seeing the blinds on a Tyseley DMU in the early 90s being wound on and astonishingly they still contained the names of stations long gone from the network including Hunstanton and Dudley!

 

I assume it was one blind made from blast proof canvas which had lasted.  There again I have an old Class 150 destination blind somewhere (black Rail Alphabet on a white background) which includes a few places which at the time of manufacture must have been in the pipeline for reopenings, so perhaps there was a degree of future-proofing in blind production.

[The Johnster]

I do recall seeing the blinds on a Tyseley DMU in the early 90s being wound on and astonishingly they still contained the names of stations long gone from the network including Hunstanton and Dudley!

 

I assume it was one blind made from blast proof canvas which had lasted.  There again I have an old Class 150 destination blind somewhere (black Rail Alphabet on a white background) which includes a few places which at the time of manufacture must have been in the pipeline for reopenings, so perhaps there was a degree of future-proofing in blind production.

 

As I say, they were a standard fitting, and it is possible that early class 150 were old stock from 1950/60s dmus.  

[dibber25]

I'm guessing that the lack of blinds covering ex-SR stations in the South-west was because it was already known that all those lines would be closing. (CJL)

[Geoff Endacott]

I think I should have blinds reading THISWAY and THATWAY. I don't suppose many people at an exhibition will notice.

 

Geoff Endacott

[TheSignalEngineer]

I do recall seeing the blinds on a Tyseley DMU in the early 90s being wound on and astonishingly they still contained the names of stations long gone from the network including Hunstanton and Dudley!

 

I assume it was one blind made from blast proof canvas which had lasted.  There again I have an old Class 150 destination blind somewhere (black Rail Alphabet on a white background) which includes a few places which at the time of manufacture must have been in the pipeline for reopenings, so perhaps there was a degree of future-proofing in blind production.

There was at least one 'Neverwazza' blind on a DMU at Tyseley, I think one of the first refurbished at PTE expense, which I saw at Moor Street one afternoon carrying the destination Woodgate Valley. 

[chrisf]

I'm guessing that the lack of blinds covering ex-SR stations in the South-west was because it was already known that all those lines would be closing. (CJL)

 

Alternative theory: when the blinds were ordered (1960?) it was not known that the SR west of Salisbury would be lumped into the WR or that units would have to be found elsewhere on the WR to run the services.

 

Chris

[Dunsignalling]

I'm guessing that the lack of blinds covering ex-SR stations in the South-west was because it was already known that all those lines would be closing. (CJL)

 

Alternative theory: when the blinds were ordered (1960?) it was not known that the SR west of Salisbury would be lumped into the WR or that units would have to be found elsewhere on the WR to run the services.

 

Chris

I incline more to the latter view, though BR Western Region did exhibit an almost pathological desire to close any piece of railway that fell into their clutches if it hadn't been inherited from the GWR.

 

Even the former LSWR main line to Exeter would have gone IMO had not repeated flooding on the GWR main line exposed that route's vulnerability.

 

Fortunately it happened when the railway industry still had the ability and motivation to keep trains running in emergencies and regarded hiring in buses as the last resort, rather than the first.

 

John

Edited July 12, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[St Enodoc]

I was reading the Model Rail review of the green one the other day and the one thing that I thought was that the number looked suspiciously to be in post 1968 Rail Alphabet font rather than the correct (Gil Sans?) version.

 

The destination blinds are decals with clear lettering so that they are illuminated from behind. I put mine on the outside of the glazing - not sure you can get to the inside of it. The head code panels unclip and you can certainly mount the head codes on the inside of the glazing. In matching mine to a picture at Much Wenlock with B2 mis-wound as B1/2 I noticed that the font for the head codes is not bold enough, nor are the figures close enough together - on the real blind there's virtually no gap between the base of one figure and the top of the next. A little cutting and fitting is needed to replicate mis-wound numbers. I haven't studied the bodyside font but the Gill Sans does seem to elude some of the Chinese systems. (CJL)

Thanks gents. Sounds as though I'll need to get the T-Cut and the Methfix out.

[Southernman46]

I incline more to the latter view, though BR Western Region did exhibit an almost pathological desire to close any piece of railway that fell into their clutches if it hadn't been inherited from the GWR.

 

Even the former LSWR main line to Exeter would have gone IMO had not repeated flooding on the GWR main line exposed that route's vulnerability.

 

Fortunately it happened when the railway industry still had the ability and motivation to keep trains running in emergencies and regarded hiring in buses as the last resort, rather than the first.

 

John

 

 

Yes - let's hope that FG don't attempt the same tactics to screw up SWT's great work on the WOE line by introducing vast fare increases and service reductions to bring it down to the same level of mediocrity they are achieving on the GW .................... those of us in S.Wilts etc. are living in trepidation ...........

[Andy W]

 

Yes - let's hope that FG don't attempt the same tactics to screw up SWT's great work on the WOE line by introducing vast fare increases and service reductions to bring it down to the same level of mediocrity they are achieving on the GW .................... those of us in S.Wilts etc. are living in trepidation ...........

Wildly off topic, but the service frequencies are defined in the franchise agreement, and many of the fares are regulated (though admittedly not advances - do SWT sell many of these at the moment?).

[Chris116]

I incline more to the latter view, though BR Western Region did exhibit an almost pathological desire to close any piece of railway that fell into their clutches if it hadn't been inherited from the GWR.

 

Even the former LSWR main line to Exeter would have gone IMO had not repeated flooding on the GWR main line exposed that route's vulnerability.

 

Fortunately it happened when the railway industry still had the ability and motivation to keep trains running in emergencies and regarded hiring in buses as the last resort, rather than the first.

 

John

The love of hiring buses can be explained by the fact that First, Arriva and Stagecoach are all bus companies who have expanded into railways but go back to their roots at the first sign of problems.

[DropTheTap]

...though BR Western Region did exhibit an almost pathological desire to close any piece of railway that fell into their clutches...

 

 

I'd suggest that this didn't apply solely to the Western region. One of the quickest ways to close a branch in the "Beeching" era was to claim that the junction with the main line required expensive repairs or even replacement. I heard multiple stories of this happening when I worked on the Eastern, although admittedly these (mostly*) took place years before I started. It seems that too many rail staff of this era were too concerned with seeing how much track they could get closed, rather than keeping lines open.

 

*There were a couple of notable examples which were more recent than Beeching. I'll leave you to guess at which.

[Oldddudders]

I'd suggest that this didn't apply solely to the Western region. One of the quickest ways to close a branch in the "Beeching" era was to claim that the junction with the main line required expensive repairs or even replacement. I heard multiple stories of this happening when I worked on the Eastern, although admittedly these (mostly*) took place years before I started. It seems that too many rail staff of this era were too concerned with seeing how much track they could get closed, rather than keeping lines open.

 

*There were a couple of notable examples which were more recent than Beeching. I'll leave you to guess at which.

 

I'm sure they were concerned with closures, simply because that was what their managers were under pressure to achieve. The Beeching era is slightly before my time - I joined in 1966 from skool - but barmy edicts from the civil servants were still being issued by the time I was in a position to know about them. As late as the late '80s, with Sectors in full swing, some bozo at Marsham St dreamed up a new virility symbol, by issuing a requirement for the Board to single a target number of route miles per year, and identified some routes he thought were ripe for it. These included Leatherhead - Effingham Junction, a few miles that saw few services per hour, so seemed to fit his model. Unfortunately, had it gone ahead, the timing  and platforming of the entire suburban side at Waterloo would have had to revolve around the availability of paths over that single line.

 

People think the nationalised railway was some sort of ideal, but in reality the amateurs in the Department were forever coming up with new ideas to save money. As a colleague once put it - the only good thing about dealing with the civil servants was that it was marginally better than dealing with MPs.