Bachmann announce Mk2f's

[robertcwp]

As most of the Mark I catering car fleet only dated from the early 1960s, there was no real need for new catering cars to run with Mark 2 stock although 28 Mark 2 open seconds were built with 2+1 seating for use as diners. It was only in 1970 that Mark 2c open firsts appeared. Until then, even first class dining was in Mark I stock, often the later open firsts with Commonwealth bogies, also built in the early 1960s.

[tractor_37260]

Hi,

 

Having looked at the great (IMO) video by ThaneofFife is the need to have all the coaches the same way round in order to use the door access lights feature on the Intercity red stripe DCC variant going to cause any problems authenticity wise?.

 

Also could somebody do a sharp photograph of the DCC decoder circuitry so that we can try and work out who made it in order to see if it has any extra features like brightness control?.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Nick

 

CDL's on the Inter-City Exec livery coaches ?, were the coaches not in Swallow livery before these were fitted ? 

[adb968008]

Agreed, image in the 1970s wasn’t a priority for the railways at least until the hst arrived. I often thought it looked odd with modern air con carriages in a rake mixed in with some scabby old full brake and catering vehicles. Add br blue into the mix and we lived in a drab world, but oh what I would give to spend a day watching them go by again!

Not just the 70’s,.. LNER catering vehicles seemed to outlive their counterparts, even made it to the southern region in the 1960’s.

 

You would think a vehicle that raises additional revenue beyond that of a ticket would be a priority.

Edited October 6, 2018 by adb968008

[mark54]

I received my FO yesterday.One thing I noticed today is that Bachmann has the interior the wrong way round with the 1+1 seating on the toilet side. The prototype had the 2+2 seating on the toilet side.  I hope that it can be reversed but then the no smoking partition will be in the wrong place. Haven't opened it yet to see what can be done!

[Brian Kirby]

Well spotted Mark, with the Bachmann 2F body off, the interior does appear reversible (body to chassis orientation is already correct),

the end screws holding the interior to the chassis, will probably fit the other way, but alas not the centre screw. As

you suggested, the interior transverse glass partition will then end up in the wrong position, in relation to the correctly

applied "No Smoking" window stickers. Oh dear.

I might copy Lord Nelson here, and put the telescope to the blind eye, if the windows were as dark as they should be, the

annoying oversight would not be apparent. On the considerably cheaper Hornby Mk2E, body, chassis, interior and partition are

all in their correct positions. BK

Edited October 6, 2018 by Brian Kirby

[Brian Kirby]

Nah, i've put the telescope away, i've got to fix this interior orientation, it's bugging me man!

So far i've got the rather delicate glass partition out from the seats, it's glued and plugged to

a depth of about 2mm, gentle wiggling and flexing will release it one end at a time. But now i'm stuck,

due to my recent house move, I can't find my fine crosshead screwdrivers, the search starts now. BK

[Bob Reid]

Unfortunately as a result of the interior moulding being the wrong way round, on the DCC version (39-650DC) the SMD LED's are incorrectly over the luggage racks and not the toilet compartment as intended so reversing the moulding will put them in the correct place however a cut-out will need to be made in the moulding for the DCC feed wires in the diagonally opposite corner.

[ThaneofFife]

and after 5 years of development?.....

[Bob Reid]

and after 5 years of development?.....

 

 

I'm sure if Mark hadn't spotted the mistake 98% of the folk on here wouldn't even have noticed never mind actually cared.  

 

Did you mention they've been five years in development?

[stovepipe]

I'm sure if Mark hadn't spotted the mistake 98% of the folk on here wouldn't even have noticed never mind actually cared.

 

I'm not so sure, they have put lights in them to show off the interiors after all......

[brushman47544]

I'm sure if Mark hadn't spotted the mistake 98% of the folk on here wouldn't even have noticed never mind actually cared.

I certainly wouldn’t have noticed because it’s so long since I’ve been in a Mk2f and it’s simply not something I’d go looking for. The outside including paintwork accuracy is another matter. Having said that though, I’m now glad I’ve only bought one so far and will now wait and see if Bachmann produces a second production run in blue/grey in a year or few and corrects the error.

[Bob Reid]

I'm not so sure, they have put lights in them to show off the interiors after all......

 

 

It's not that noticeable even with the lights on and missed up till now with the lit samples & the reviews.  You're mileage may vary  

 

Bob

[Brian Kirby]

Here's looking down on the Bachmann Mk2F FO interior, it needs to be turned 180 degrees, the now removed glazing

partition is sitting on the edge of my laptop, you can see the slots on the seats, where it plugs in.

 

 

Here's the same interior tipped over, so you can see the underframe arrangement, and the body just removed,

this is how it comes, the underframe and body orientation matches, but the interior does not.

 

 

For crying out loud, even the Lima Mk2F interior (below) was the right way around thirty-five years ago, and these were

sold in the shops as cheap and cheerful, for less than a tenner? BK

 

[Flood]

My two done, 25 mins (including finding the screwdrivers), sorted.

 

Thanks for the heads up.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Flood

[EddieK]

CDL's on the Inter-City Exec livery coaches ?, were the coaches not in Swallow livery before these were fitted ? 

Probably. The CDL programme began in late 1993 or maybe early 1994. The Swallow livery dates from late 1987, so I would have thought that the livery had spread across the 2f fleet by the time of CDL fitting.

[mdvle]

Not just the 70’s,.. LNER catering vehicles seemed to outlive their counterparts, even made it to the southern region in the 1960’s.

 

You would think a vehicle that raises additional revenue beyond that of a ticket would be a priority.

 

Question, did they actually generate additional profit once the costs of the catering vehicle were subtracted?

 

See for example Amtrak eliminating hot food given that (at least in the US and in the current era) dining cars run at a loss, so what was the case in the 70s under BR?

[adb968008]

Question, did they actually generate additional profit once the costs of the catering vehicle were subtracted?

 

See for example Amtrak eliminating hot food given that (at least in the US and in the current era) dining cars run at a loss, so what was the case in the 70s under BR?

Ahh but is any decline due to the run down nature putting diners off ?

 

I know my roamings as a child seeing travellers fare and the mingy tomato sandwiches did nothing for me at all... so losing the buffet made no difference...

 

Now today try booking a mainline railtour today using the exact same stock and not finding a buffet, kitchen, both or even 3 of them in the consist.

Desirability of the product has changed.

 

When in eastern europe ive had spectacular dinners on passenger services, the likes which has largely dissapeared in the UK, i did until only a few years ago enjoy a steak dinner on Norwich services, virgin arent losing their catering in pendolinos anytime soon.

 

Today its largely out of fashion, and 1 extra set of weight in an over crowded consist that travels much faster, but it wasnt always like that, especially when journeys were slower and took longer.

Edited October 6, 2018 by adb968008

[John M Upton]

Economies of scale perhaps?  A RB/RU/RBR/RK (insert code of choice here) was almost certainly more expensive to design and build than the common or garden SO/FO etc.  Times that extra cost by the fact they would be built in much smaller batches plus there already being a significant number of serviceable Mk1 versions still in use then it was probably inevitable to BR's crack team of accountants that any Mk2 based kitchen/restaurant car was unjustifiable.

 

That is not to say that a design or two was not drawn up and may be lurking in a dusty filing cabinet somewhere of course.

 

Even the Mk3a catering/kitchen cars didn't come about until the HST stock was developed and that was basically a straight conversion of the HST trailer design to hauled coaching stock spec.

[mark54]

It also has to be considered that a catering vehicle doesn't actually carry any revenue earning passengers. Their seat will be elsewhere in the train. The most extreme example I can think of this is the 1948 Flying Scotsman set which was used on The Elizabethan in the 1950s. Of the 12 coach train, there was an RFO RK RSO dining set and a Lounge Buffet - 4 coaches - a third of the train devoted to catering! Invariably restaurant cars in the BR era with their high staffing costs were loss making, but it was seen as an overall package that attracted people to travel by rail. In the privatisation era I suspect that having an extra coach with revenue earning passengers rather than a loss making catering vehicle and serve them from a trolley was considered more appropriate, where profit is a greater concern.

[robertcwp]

It also has to be considered that a catering vehicle doesn't actually carry any revenue earning passengers. Their seat will be elsewhere in the train. The most extreme example I can think of this is the 1948 Flying Scotsman set which was used on The Elizabethan in the 1950s. Of the 12 coach train, there was an RFO RK RSO dining set and a Lounge Buffet - 4 coaches - a third of the train devoted to catering! Invariably restaurant cars in the BR era with their high staffing costs were loss making, but it was seen as an overall package that attracted people to travel by rail. In the privatisation era I suspect that having an extra coach with revenue earning passengers rather than a loss making catering vehicle and serve them from a trolley was considered more appropriate, where profit is a greater concern.

By the time it became the Elizabethan, the RFO/RK had been replaced by an RF but the Flying Scotsman retained the full triplet for longer. 

[adb968008]

It also has to be considered that a catering vehicle doesn't actually carry any revenue earning passengers. Their seat will be elsewhere in the train. The most extreme example I can think of this is the 1948 Flying Scotsman set which was used on The Elizabethan in the 1950s. Of the 12 coach train, there was an RFO RK RSO dining set and a Lounge Buffet - 4 coaches - a third of the train devoted to catering! Invariably restaurant cars in the BR era with their high staffing costs were loss making, but it was seen as an overall package that attracted people to travel by rail. In the privatisation era I suspect that having an extra coach with revenue earning passengers rather than a loss making catering vehicle and serve them from a trolley was considered more appropriate, where profit is a greater concern.

Still missing the point...

 

In 1949 the Capitals Ltd took 8 hours from London to Edinburgh, later 6hr45 minutes as the Elizabethan.

Add in 1 hour getting to the station, and 1 hour going to your destination from the station your looking at a 10 hour trip... assuming you dont have connections...

Of course your going to need food.

Many more passengers were business travellers.

 

A modern comparison is like flying London to Chicago today..

 

Journey times now are 4 hours, add in taxi connections, your journey is less than 5 hours... half the time.

You dont need a meal, a snack will suffice.. and fast food is the norm, the whole proposition has changed... Business travel by rail is diminished, WiFi is more important than a sit down meal, a kebab or mcDonalds will suffice for most longer distance travellers, who tend to lean toward being student aged.

 

The balance shifted in the 1970’s/80’s.. it might have been a 100mph railway, but it was unreliable, covered in engineering works, strikes, dodgy stock, uncaring staff, dirty stations and rubbish food.. so naturally those who could, found another way.

 

Todays business traveller is cruising the motorway in a Merc, eating at a Restaurant whilst doing emails and calls, and using the BA lounge on Scottish flights instead, and when the cost of a first class ticket, or pre-930am ticket is greater per mile than the governments 45p tax allowance.. why wouldnt they use their owncar ?

 

The airlines use the same argument about food, that railways used in the 1970’s.. passengers wont pay for it, its dead weight etc..but thats not what they say in those business class adverts, which are 3n the economy fare and 5n the budget passenger, and are bringing in the real revenue.

Edited October 7, 2018 by adb968008

[steve1023]

AC Models in Eastleigh had the I/C TSO and both blue/grey and swallow liveried buffet/first in atock this afternoon. Would have bought except I have pre-ordered the TSO.

[brushman47544]

AC Models in Eastleigh had the I/C TSO and both blue/grey and swallow liveried buffet/first in atock this afternoon. Would have bought except I have pre-ordered the TSO.

 

That is consistent with Bachmann's own update - the Availability webpage has been updated today - 10 October - and shows the current situation:

 

39-650/DC - FO Blue/Grey - Out of Stock (so sold out to retailers?)

39-652/DC - FO Intercity - October 2018

39-675/DC - TSO Blue/Grey - September 2018 (!!!)

39-677/DC - TSO Intercity - In Stock

39-685       - RFB Blue/Grey (Pres) - In Stock

39-685DC - RFB Blue/Grey (Pres) - September 2018

39-686      - RFB Intercity - In Stock

39-686DC - RFB Intercity - October 2018

39-700/DC - BSO Blue/Grey - September 2018

39-701/DC - BSO Intercity - November 2018

39-725DC - DBSO Blue/Grey - November 2018

39-726DC - DBSO Scotrail - November 2018

 

Odd that some "September" dates still shown but presumably they haven't arrived yet - the TPO POTs are all now showing "Out of Stock" which, since they have not yet been distributed, presumably means they have arrived but not been released for distribution. If so, they should appear before the other Mk2f.

Edited October 10, 2018 by brushman47544

[Andy Mac]

That’s interesting that the First Opens are out of stock.... that suggests the retailers think they will sell them.... down side for me, is that my plans were to pick a few up at a time over a couple of months to avoid the big hit on the credit card.... might need to change my plans!

[mdvle]

That’s interesting that the First Opens are out of stock.... that suggests the retailers think they will sell them.... down side for me, is that my plans were to pick a few up at a time over a couple of months to avoid the big hit on the credit card.... might need to change my plans!

 

Alternately, maybe with the changes in the market Bachmann is changing the number it orders from the factory so it is closer to actual demand and thus not sitting in a warehouse for months.