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Talk about the Hare and the Tortoise.

That photo beats everything on this thread whilst summing the thread up nicely!

 

 

Kev.

 

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5 hours ago, SP Steve said:

The search for Class 13 Master + Slave replacements hits new levels of absurdity!

 

Class 08 No. 08643 is hauled through Bristol Temple Meads by a solitary HST power car 43162 in July 1984 (I presumed it was a working from St Philips Marsh depot with a view to the power car being turned, hence the 08 being manned and under power).

 

20200913_151503.jpg.fd7a5bebc56aca64874daa0056757967.jpg

 

 

No tail lamp ?

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15 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

No tail lamp ?

Hi Wickham,

 

Gronks have a red filter in their marker lights and generally display one red and one white light at each end.

 

Gibbo.

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27 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

..... even when being towed ?

An interesting question. I don't have my 1972 rule book to hand right now, but I was looking at it last night. Shunting locomotives operating round stations needed their red and white lights illuminated. Trains consisting of light engines needed an illuminated red light at the rear, but I am not at all sure whether showing an illuminated white light was permitted, and as I recall the two lights cannot be controlled separately on an 08. However, as an ordinary train (not a light engine movement), there needed to be a tail lamp "in working order" (I forget the precise wording), but it did not need to be illuminated except after dark, in snow, running through tunnels and some other situations.

 

I think the distinction between whether an illuminated red light or a red tail lamp in working order was required really came down to whether the train had a guard. With a light engine movement, the driver was responsible for flicking a switch; with a train, the guard was responsible for hanging a lamp on the back. Here we appear to have a situation where there isn't an appropriate switch to be flicked, and no guard to hang a lamp.

 

At some point (and I think it was before the 1996 rule book, but I don't have a date) the tail lamp rule was changed to say it always needed to be illuminated.

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The provision of a red and a white lamp at both ends of a station pilot goes back well into steam days. By day, they looked simply like a Class A (express passenger) headcode and led many an enthusiast to believe he was seeing an 0-6-0T on an express turn when it was simply moving stock within station limits. Going light engine to and from its worksite it would carry a normal headlamp at the leading end and a tail lamp at the trailing, not necessarily above the draw hook; it would not have two lamps each end.

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrJ4NY5g19fxcsAGbaJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsZ29xY3ZzBHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEc2xrA2J1dHRvbg--;_ylc=X1MDOTYwNjI4NTcEX3IDMgRhY3RuA2NsawRjc3JjcHZpZANTOHF5a1RFd0xqSmhEUF9DWHpPZk1nbmJPVFV1TVFBQUFBQW9GbXZYBGZyA3NmcARmcjIDc2EtZ3AEZ3ByaWQDOWh2VDVXel9RQ2FRWVRjSjlmMXhIQQRuX3N1Z2cDMQRvcmlnaW4DaW1hZ2VzLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMTYEcXVlcnkDSmludGllcyUyMDAtNi0wVAR0X3N0bXADMTYwMDA5NTA0NQ--?p=Jinties+0-6-0T&fr=sfp&fr2=sb-top-images.search&ei=UTF-8&n=60&x=wrt#id=65&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rail-online.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fs%2Fv-10%2Fp1830679492-4.jpg&action=click

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrJ4NY5g19fxcsAGbaJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsZ29xY3ZzBHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEc2xrA2J1dHRvbg--;_ylc=X1MDOTYwNjI4NTcEX3IDMgRhY3RuA2NsawRjc3JjcHZpZANTOHF5a1RFd0xqSmhEUF9DWHpPZk1nbmJPVFV1TVFBQUFBQW9GbXZYBGZyA3NmcARmcjIDc2EtZ3AEZ3ByaWQDOWh2VDVXel9RQ2FRWVRjSjlmMXhIQQRuX3N1Z2cDMQRvcmlnaW4DaW1hZ2VzLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMTYEcXVlcnkDSmludGllcyUyMDAtNi0wVAR0X3N0bXADMTYwMDA5NTA0NQ--?p=Jinties+0-6-0T&fr=sfp&fr2=sb-top-images.search&ei=UTF-8&n=60&x=wrt#id=141&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rail-online.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fs%2Fv-3%2Fp1689109697-4.jpg&action=click

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrJ4NY5g19fxcsAGbaJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsZ29xY3ZzBHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEc2xrA2J1dHRvbg--;_ylc=X1MDOTYwNjI4NTcEX3IDMgRhY3RuA2NsawRjc3JjcHZpZANTOHF5a1RFd0xqSmhEUF9DWHpPZk1nbmJPVFV1TVFBQUFBQW9GbXZYBGZyA3NmcARmcjIDc2EtZ3AEZ3ByaWQDOWh2VDVXel9RQ2FRWVRjSjlmMXhIQQRuX3N1Z2cDMQRvcmlnaW4DaW1hZ2VzLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMTYEcXVlcnkDSmludGllcyUyMDAtNi0wVAR0X3N0bXADMTYwMDA5NTA0NQ--?p=Jinties+0-6-0T&fr=sfp&fr2=sb-top-images.search&ei=UTF-8&n=60&x=wrt#id=209&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rail-online.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fs%2Fv-10%2Fp1778124696-4.jpg&action=click

Edited by LMS2968
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9 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

The provision of a red and a white lamp at both ends of a station pilot goes back well into steam days. By day, they looked simply like a Class A (express passenger) headcode and led many an enthusiast to believe he was seeing an 0-6-0T on an express turn when it was simply moving stock within station limits.

Not simply "enthusiasts". An error all too common in the supposedly professional railway enthusiast press. 

 

Paul

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On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 12:24, luckymucklebackit said:

 

Sadly around the time I was applying for jobs in the railways, that important question "Does your Father work for the Railway" still had a lot of weight behind it, and I had to honestly reply - no!

 

Jim

 

One of the panel at my interview asked to be remembered to my father.  I was a yes to said question.

 

A driver I knew had first started on the railway at the end of the 1930's economic slump. Word had gone round the town that the local shed was taking on two lads as cleaners. On the appointed day there are about 200 lads queued up waiting for an interview, with each lad just getting a couple of minutes to make a good impression. Eventually it was my driver friends turn to see the Shed Master. "Are you Sammy's lad?" asks the great man (My driver friends father Sam having worked at the shed until his death a few years before.) On saying that yes he was, he was told to go to the office and get a ticket to go for his medical, and the process of choosing the second applicant from the other 199 continued.

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6 hours ago, Trog said:

 

One of the panel at my interview asked to be remembered to my father.  I was a yes to said question.

 

A driver I knew had first started on the railway at the end of the 1930's economic slump. Word had gone round the town that the local shed was taking on two lads as cleaners. On the appointed day there are about 200 lads queued up waiting for an interview, with each lad just getting a couple of minutes to make a good impression. Eventually it was my driver friends turn to see the Shed Master. "Are you Sammy's lad?" asks the great man (My driver friends father Sam having worked at the shed until his death a few years before.) On saying that yes he was, he was told to go to the office and get a ticket to go for his medical, and the process of choosing the second applicant from the other 199 continued.


things dont change.

we opened a position in our company and got nearly 450 applicants overnight. The guy who got it was already known to a few.

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14 hours ago, adb968008 said:


things dont change.

we opened a position in our company and got nearly 450 applicants overnight. The guy who got it was already known to a few.

 

The problem is, when you have such a surplus of applicants, the selection process breaks down under its own weight. At least 80% of those applicants are of no real interest, being obviously generic, or offering little relevant experience or none at all, or some cogent reason why they aren’t suitable. Applications are ruthlessly pruned on grounds of age, although (once again) nobody is going to admit this.

 

Another 10% or so can be quickly eliminated (applicants who have previously been passed over for similar roles, by present or past employers, often fall at this fence, as do candidates requiring retraining or recertification of some sort either before starting work, or in the near future). 

 

At this point, the employer is selecting candidates by criteria which are arbitrary or simply random, to reduce the field quickly. It used to be common knowledge that applications sent in brown envelopes, rather than white, were binned unread; as were applications sent under 2nd class postage, rather than 1st. 

 

There is probably a residual pool of around 5-10% of applicants, most of which could do the job, but none of which meet the (probably over-optimistic or unrealistic) criteria specified by HR. There is often a further problem, that HR and operational management don’t agree fully on the actual required attributes. Ops Management will usually want a different candidate to HR. Ops Management are rarely much interested in “diversity”, although nobody is going to ADMIT that; they just want the most promising candidate. HR don’t usually share this view. 

 

At this point, the selection panel are making decisions for internal reasons, depending on who actually has control, or most influence. The defined criteria don’t actually produce a clearly defined outcome, so it comes down to either increasing the number of criteria (more key-words) or looking at undefined criteria or intangibles. Having some intangible connection with the company (which often can’t be advertised, but is understood by the selection panel) may well be decisive at this stage. 

 

 

Edited by rockershovel
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15 hours ago, adb968008 said:


things dont change.

we opened a position in our company and got nearly 450 applicants overnight. The guy who got it was already known to a few.


It’s not what you know, it’s who you know :wink_mini:

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3 hours ago, Western Aviator said:


It’s not what you know, it’s who you know :wink_mini:

 

Not always. Some years ago I interviewed candidates for a job in a railway control office, one of whom worked for the railway already and was known to us. To ensure fairness we asked every candidate exactly the same questions, and we did not ask anything technical; For example, we asked what the role of their prospective employer, Network Rail, was in the rail industry, on the basis that someone wanting to work for the company would at least have done some research on what we did. How wrong I was ! So the person we knew got the job, because they were the only one who knew anything, at all, about the railway.  

 

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An unusual movement today, not only was it a trio of power cars, but the 47 was on the back, not hauling the power cars!

50346079253_c325a0c434_b.jpgTriple headed HST by Steadfast Fotography, on Flickr

Another trio of power cars off for overhaul, power door controls and some shiny green paint, 43029 leads 43027 and 43022 away from Westerleigh Junction running as 5E23 from Laira to Doncaster. Presumably the two trailers (42087 and 42580) are in line for the power door treatment. 47815 'Lost Boys 68 - 88' was bringing up the rear of this ROG operated move. I reckon this will be my last photo of an FGW blue power car, 14 years after the livery first appeared.

 

Jo

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On 14/09/2020 at 13:29, Jeremy C said:

 

An interesting question. I don't have my 1972 rule book to hand right now, but I was looking at it last night. Shunting locomotives operating round stations needed their red and white lights illuminated. Trains consisting of light engines needed an illuminated red light at the rear, but I am not at all sure whether showing an illuminated white light was permitted, and as I recall the two lights cannot be controlled separately on an 08. However, as an ordinary train (not a light engine movement), there needed to be a tail lamp "in working order" (I forget the precise wording), but it did not need to be illuminated except after dark, in snow, running through tunnels and some other situations.

 

I think the distinction between whether an illuminated red light or a red tail lamp in working order was required really came down to whether the train had a guard. With a light engine movement, the driver was responsible for flicking a switch; with a train, the guard was responsible for hanging a lamp on the back. Here we appear to have a situation where there isn't an appropriate switch to be flicked, and no guard to hang a lamp.

 

At some point (and I think it was before the 1996 rule book, but I don't have a date) the tail lamp rule was changed to say it always needed to be illuminated.

The marker lights on 350s could all be operated individually with the original fittings, they all had a toggle switch fitted underneath or on the side.

 

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8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Wish I was your bin man - the brown ones are the ones with used notes in ...............

 

One thing I’ve always greatly appreciated about this country, is the general standard of probity in such matters. There was always favouritism, nepotism and patronage, but outright bribery? Very rare, in such things. 

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On 13/09/2020 at 21:30, Wickham Green too said:

No tail lamp ?

Not needed when shunting within Station Limits (that's as in signal box, there didn't actually have to be a physical station!), but required when standing on a running line, loop or reception line (i.e. actually a train) or fouling clearing points. Red marker to the rear (checked by the guard when (s)he was acting as a second man. e.g. getting an engine off shed). Class 6 freights always a red to the rear. Don't forget the purpose of a tail lamp is to show the train is complete, it's not like car tail lights. Brake vans would show three reds to the rear, unless on a 'slow' line, loop or reception road where the lamp nearest the running line in the direction of traffic is white (take the red slide out). Then three reds again for the next running line and so on.

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2 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Not sure what to do with those left over chairs and fishplates?

 

Pile them on a brake van.

 

1344012232_20200919_1346012.jpg.a37c19e575d2b89d291f4a75dc5d1232.jpg

 

Those chairs bring back a few memories.

I worked in a small foundry for a few years

and we used to get those in the scrap. 

They were good quality iron and made  good castings.

I have to confess to having broken up a few myself!

We used to turn them upside down,

one hit in the middle with a sledgehammer

and they were small enough to go in the furnace.

Edited by rab
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44 minutes ago, melmerby said:

A quick way of increasing the ballast?

 

..but no way of calculating brake force.

It's also an unsecured load so I suspect it wasn't going very far.

 

 

Kev.

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