well filled baps The Sheep Chronicles : These are the adventures of a Sheep, the Works Forecat and Naughty George,

[Alister_G]

32 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I'm sorry about this, but from now on I am going to think of this entrance/exit as your Salubrious Passage

 

Um, is my passage sufficiently salubrious?

 

 

Al.

[bgman]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Don't buy any clerestory coaches is all I can say!

 

 

That'll be quite enough of that thank you ! 

[Alex TM]

18 hours ago, Alister_G said:

It went in fine, but after 6 months work, and, importantly, a new set of leaf springs, it wouldn't come back out again!

Hi,

 

It could've been worse:

 

I once worked for a local authority that designed and managed a shopping centre.  All was well until the day came when a brand new HGV reversed into one of the loading bays, and proceeded to completely offload its cargo.  As the driver came to leave, with his now empty and much lighter truck, all he heard was an awful crunching and screeching noise coupled to a seeming complete loss of tractive power.  Leaving his cab to investigate he realised that his trailer had risen up on its springs, and was now thoroughly wedged between the concrete hard-standing and the roof.  It turned out that the clearance given on the 'max headroom' sign was almost 12" out .....  Needless to say, we footed the rather hefty bill for his repairs.

 

More stories of local authority ineptitude are available to amuse or horrify.....

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[bgman]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Speaking of entrances and exits...

 

 

Ah !  The Flat Earth Society's new station halt, nicely replicated Stu.

 

F.Alloff

Edited May 24, 2020 by bgman

[Alex TM]

2 minutes ago, bgman said:

Ah !  The Flat Earth Society's new station halt, nicely replicated Stu.

 

The turtle moves!  (Just sayin')

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Speaking of entrances and exits...

 

Is that an answer on a postcard?

 

[NHY 581]

Evening all. 

 

Norman Lockhart popped into Sheep Dip today and provides us with this view of a  Pannier sunning itself at Sheep Dip. 

 

24th May 1957. 

 

Rob 

 

 

 

 

[Mick Bonwick]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Is that an answer on a postcard?

 

 

If it is then somebody has been intercepting Horace Batchelor's mail.

[NHY 581]

A couple more of Norman ' s images...

[Mick Bonwick]

8 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

A couple more of Norman ' s images...

 

A couple? Severe inflation here! 50% at least.

[NHY 581]

[Ramblin Rich]

4 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Speaking of entrances and exits...

 

 

3 hours ago, bgman said:

 

Ah !  The Flat Earth Society's new station halt, nicely replicated Stu.

 

F.Alloff

"It's the end of the world as we know it"

REM

 

[Stubby47]

Just now, Ramblin Rich said:

 

"It's the end of the world as we know it"

REM

 

 

Is this better?

[MrWolf]

3 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Is this better?

 

I had just assumed that it was someone being a bit too clever with one of those minimum space layout contests?

[NHY 581]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

I had just assumed that it was someone being a bit too clever with one of those minimum space layout contests?

 

Never assume on this thread........dangerous thing to do...

[Stubby47]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

I had just assumed that it was someone being a bit too clever with one of those minimum space layout contests?

 

6 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Never assume on this thread........dangerous thing to do...

 

Though in this case, he's probably right. 

[Worsdell forever]

18 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Don't buy any clerestory coaches is all I can say!

 

 

NO!

 

[NHY 581]

Morning all. 

 

Norman sends his regards with what will be  the final view (for now......) from his visit yesterday. 

 

Seeing the Pannier in these views, I was getting a bit of a Moorswater feeling to it all, a favourite location of mine. 

 

Many, many posts back I recall CK extolling the virtues of a goods only Ex-GWR setting. He has of course captured this so well in Bethesda Sidings and I can see the attraction.

 

Sheep Dip is capable of being any one of a number of locations, setting aside the obvious geographical limitations imposed by the slate buildings of course. Then again,  7717 should have riveted tanks so there are a lot more compromises that it would first appear. 

 

I therefore work on the basis that if it looks right, it probably is........or to put it another way.........'Apply broad brush and stand well back' .........which sums up my approach to the whole modelling thing anyway. 

 

 

Rob. 

[Mick Bonwick]

22 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

Seeing the Pannier in these views, I was getting a bit of a Moorswater feeling to it all, a favourite location of mine. 

 

 

Once upon a time, when I was gainfully employed, there was a site at Moorswater whose telecommunications I was responsible for. Because it was so far away I always gave a particular team member the tasks for this site. Little did I know at the time that I would one day become interested in model railways and have never forgiven him for doing what he was told.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but it was your fault for mentioning Moorswater.

 

Even though the GWR has little attraction for me, I can still appreciate good modelling and good photography. Whatever your story, Rob, keep it coming.

[NHY 581]

1 minute ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Even though the GWR has little attraction for me, I can still appreciate good modelling and good photography. Whatever your story, Rob, keep it coming.

 

Very kind, Mick. 

 

I sort of muddle along really. The GWR does not attract me either but I do have a soft spot for certain locos  such as Panniers, small Prairies and 14xx. 

 

First love will always be the S&DJR, followed by the L&SWR and the Midland but really only  their activities South of Birmingham, in fact below Gloucestershire really. 

 

I shall indeed keep it coming. 

 

Rob. 

[MrWolf]

18 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Very kind, Mick. 

 

I sort of muddle along really. The GWR does not attract me either but I do have a soft spot for certain locos  such as Panniers, small Prairies and 14xx. 

 

First love will always be the S&DJR, followed by the L&SWR and the Midland but really only  their activities South of Birmingham, in fact below Gloucestershire really. 

 

I shall indeed keep it coming. 

 

Rob. 

I think that most people on here muddle along, every day is a school day so to speak, there is always something new to learn. We all do the best we can with what we have.

My own interests lie mostly in pre grouping railways. Mostly L&NWR, L&SWR and the GWR, as well as oddballs like the M&SWJR, even a leap up north to the Highland.

But what I actually do is model the GWR between the wars, specifically minor lines (I have never been interested in Kings and Castles etc, nor any of the other company's big mainline locomotives, reminds me of train sets I think)

What this actually means is that I can use rule 1 to run some oddities and antiquated stock that I can obtain as cheaper kits or rtr. I came to the conclusion long ago that if I wanted a "proper model railway" that was the way to go because to do anything else would mean etched kits etc for locomotives and stock. That would mean I couldn't afford it at all. I buy older, pre DCC locos which are sufficiently accurate to be further detailed, as the price of such things has quadruped in less than 20 years, no doubt discouraging many potential modellers.

I hear all the reasons for putting a microchip in a model loco, which are fine, as well as appreciating the extra detail and accuracy currently offered, but as a former engineer, I look at these things and conclude that we are being ripped off for what when all is said and done, a toy made in the third world.

If we are not careful, the hobby will go full circle, back to the day when it was the preserve of a wealthy few who could afford to commission a bespoke model.

The manufacturers may be shooting themselves in the foot.

[NHY 581]

That's interesting, Wolfie. 

 

Personally I don't think we've ever had it so good in terms of detail accuracy, availability and price. 

The current standards of locos, rolling stock, buildings and trackwork give modellers like myself a really good leg up.  I do not consider myself to be what I would term as a skilled modeller. Those who build their own track or create locos from kits, build smooth running chassis from kits such as those from High Level, create rolling stock from kits etc, they are the skilled modellers. 

 

Look at the spec on the J15s I've recently purchased. Twin fly wheel motor, pick ups on all wheels, tender as well as loco. Accurate ( with the exception of the failure to radius the handrails) superstructure, cab back head to die for. All of this for £70.00. Even at the full price this is pretty good value. 

This is typical of what's out there. Any of the Midland locos from Bachmann are very good value indeed. As for stock, Hornby lead the way with their coaches and latterly their  wagons. Bachmann's wagons are good 'layout fillers'.

 

In the ready to plant building world I think Bachmann have the edge over Hornby but Bachmann's prices have god up a lot in recent years. That said, just wait a bit for prices to fall. 

 

All of this allows modellers like me to assemble something which looks the part very quickly and will capture the look of the area/company. 

 

To round up, taking locos and stock out of the equation, a ball park figure for Sheep Dip at the stage it's at now would be £350. That's baseboards, track, buildings and lighting. Add in a Pecketts and a few wagons and it's about £500. 

 

Bare boards in February and as per video submitted for the virtual show at the end of April. 

 

True scale it is not but a working train set in roughly two months it is.....and that is what the current standards of rtr will allow us to do. 

 

Food for thought.

 

 

Rob. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by NHY 581
Sausage hooves

[AdeMoore]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

That's interesting, Wolfie. 

 

Personally I don't think we've ever had it so good in terms of detail accuracy, availability and price. 

The current standards of locos, rolling stock, buildings and trackwork give modellers like myself a really good leg up.  I do not consider myself to be what I would term as a skilled modeller. Those who build their own track or create locos from kits, build smooth running chassis from kits such as those from High Level, create rolling stock from kits etc, they are the skilled modellers. 

 

Look at the spec on the J15s I've recently purchased. Twin fly wheel motor, pick ups on all wheels, tender as well as loco. Accurate ( with the exception of the failure to radius the handrails) superstructure, cab back head to die for. All of this for £70.00. Even at the full price this is pretty good value. 

This is typical of what's out there. Any of the Midland locos from Bachmann are very good value indeed. As for stock, Hornby lead the way with their coaches and latterly their  wagons. Bachmann's wagons are good 'layout fillers'.

 

In the ready to plant building world I think Bachmann have the edge over Hornby but Bachmann's prices have god up a lot in recent years. That said, just wait a bit for prices to fall. 

 

All of this allows modellers like me to assemble something which looks the part very quickly and will capture the look of the area/company. 

 

To round up, taking locos and stock out of the equation, a ball park figure for Sheep Dip at the stage it's at now would be £350. That's baseboards, track, buildings and lighting. Add in a Pecketts and a few wagons and it's about £500. 

 

Bare boards in February and as per video submitted for the virtual show at the end of April. 

 

True scale it is not but a working train set in roughly two months it is.....and that is what the current standards of rtr will allow us to do. 

 

Food for thought.

 

 

Rob. 

interesting thoughts Rob, experience also goes a long way. Even with everything you describe above as an aid I couldn’t build a layout in 2 months! My Meldon attests to making mistakes and learning. Recently it’s had loads of time thrown at it and still no big progress.

Brilliant what you do and the costs you quote above are interesting. Also value your thoughts on manufacturers.

Decent overview that.

 Cheers 

[The Johnster]

The price increases started as soon as I returned to the hobby after a post-divorce wobbly lifestyle enforced sabbatical of about 35 years; it is, of course, a plot against me, me personally, by the illuminati/masonic cabal of Bilderbergers and Economic Leaguers who are really running the show for their own benefit while continuing the search for the holy grail and immortality.  It's all real (well, some of it might be...). 

 

In the real world, the one I actually live in not the one in my head, if the manufacturers have shot (I was very tempted to write a word different by one vowel, there) themselves in the foot, it is with a very slow bullet, by becoming commissioners of Chinese produced models.  This gave us cheap, high quality, reliable product for many years, but of course Chinese people work hard and expect rewards for it; they want cars, smartphones and tvs, and holidays twice a year like we do, and I for one do not wish to begrudge it to them.  The cows are coming home to roost (so don't stand under the trees); we've had it too cheap for too long.  Prices in real terms taking inflation into account and as a percentage of average wages are not far off what they were in the 50s and 60s, and value for money is vastly better.  Just compare Bachmann's JInty to Triang's R52 or the more recent Hornby retooling of it.  Or Hornby Dublo's Deltic to anything that came after it.  The only one from those days that comes even close to holding up IMHO is the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn 08, with a cab full of motor, oversize coupling rods, and somewhat crude tooling, but not far off accurate to scale and a lovely performer.  Would you accept one on your layout?

 

I'm with Rob on this one, we are living in a golden age of RTR.  I believe the 60s/70s attitude, which I am fully guilty of having agreed fully with at the time, that RTR was for train sets and proper modellers built kits, while good proper modellers scratched, was instrumental in preventing the UK trade from following the path of Continental firms like Fleischmann, Fulgurex, Rivarvossi or Roco into providing good quality, well detailed, accurate, and good running models that were considered 'expensive' by us.  We hung around our necks the albatross of whitemetal kits with no detail below the running plates, and etched brass kits which were often almost deliberately designed to be difficult as a challenge; not many of us could make them up really well, certainly not me, in our quest to be 'modellers', eschewing all connection with RTR, which we thereby drove into the train set market.  

 

I thought we were living in a golden age of RTR in the early 80s, but we weren't.  Well detailed models were available, and the move to China was under way, but mechs were unreliable, tender drive and traction tyres (both of which I hate) were the norm.  It was the advance the RTR trade needed, though Hornby were far too slow to react to it, and it proved unsuccessful for Mainline and Airfix, whose parent companies went under.  The toolings were preserved, and despite the rocky road of the Dapol/Replica era, have led to the quality we now demand.  

 

It feels wrong to complain about price increases in the light of this; we are paying the same for high quality well detailed scale models in real terms as we were for crude toys (admittedly well engineered) 50 years ago; it's come full circle but to the 60s, not the 20s when bespoke models were built for those few who could afford them.  This still happens, of course, look at Pete Waterman; how much does he pay for a loco, or a layout (this is not meant as a criticism, though I hated most of the music he produced; the layout is his concept and truly magnificent; I'd do, I mean have something done, to that standard if I had the money, but I don't and never will unless I go back to doing the lotto every week)?  It costs what it costs, and I am a pensioner on a low and fixed income; if I can run a layout to a size and standard of realism that I find acceptable, which is well below Rob's, anyone can.  If you can't afford it, don't buy it!  I buy RTR and improve it as best I can, but use Peco track and commercial wheel profiles with t/l couplings.  Rob's work, to the same specifications, is inspirational to me!

[MrWolf]

My actual point was that RTR is better than it has ever been. I don't see too many locos at £70 though, they seem to be £110-150 average. Going DCC doesn't seem to justify the price hike over analogue for the components involved tbh.

We ARE well served with rtr and kits, for post 1923, with the exception of GWR wagons, hence the prices online.

As I said, I also buy rtr and improve it , particularly because it is so good.

 

Naturally things come full circle, our motor industry rested upon its laurels and the Japanese offered a better product and a better deal. Because their people no longer want to work in a factory for peanuts, their industry has been farmed out to places like Taiwan and Brazil.

But of course people there want to afford a decent lifestyle and the goods that they produce, so it goes on.

I could cite the example of a British owned factory in China making key components for the aircraft industry which was suffering from some serious quality control issues. I was tasked with finding out what the cause was. I came back with the simple answer: You have your workers on piece work. The first batch is perfect and passes inspection by your customer. But, because you have cut your prices and timing to the bone per item, the only way that the workers can make a living wage is to rush or cut corners. Not something that you want to be doing with a safety critical engine part. The only way forward was to pay the Chinese better wages and take less of a profit to remain competitive. No amount of on the job training was going to change that.

I do happen to live in the real world, I spent about 20 years working all over the place and people, regardless of where they come from have basically the same desires.