davknigh Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 In this country, it appears to be "as little as possible"...... I think you'll find that is a universal concept. Cheers, David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 Here's one I made earlier. Tim 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2015 Here's one I made earlier. Tim Lovely. What are the drive arrangements on that one then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Motor in tender, driving the big wheels only. Pulls well: 40 axles on the MRC test track, a little less in service because of tighter curves. It was written up in MRJ a few years ago. Tim Edited April 13, 2015 by CF MRC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I saw it - unpainted - at Gateshead show a few years ago, just after the MRJ article came out. Even to my somewhat limited eyesight it was an absolute work of art. Having recently lined a few 4mm locos, I can't even begin to comprehend how you've done that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2015 Motor in tender, driving the big wheels only. Pulls well: 40 axles on the MRC test track, a little less in service because of tighter curves. It was written up in MRJ a few years ago. Tim Issue 168. Good grief! It's 2mm scale too! Even more impressive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Surely tender drive really means powered tender, ie the tender wheels are powdered and pushes (or pulls) the free-wheeling loco..... Tender drive to me means just that, but there is an alternative, which I think some on here have not considered? IE motor in tender, but via a flexible propshaft, driving the wheels of the loco. This could achieve something if done with thought. Stewart Edited April 13, 2015 by stewartingram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamjamie Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Issue 168. Good grief! It's 2mm scale too! Even more impressive. Everything's better in 2mm scale! (Just my opinion of course!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm not sure if there's any precedent for this, but could the locomotive be both tender drive and engine drive? Whether they are linked by a cardan shaft, or even two separate motors? In basic engineering terms, the more driving wheels there are the greater the tractive effort, right? So this way you can have several driving wheels in the tender, and then maybe just the large driving wheels in the loco as well (or perhaps more). Going round corners isn't a problem because the whole driving system is articulated. Like I said, I don't know if this sort have thing has been done before? Just a bit of out loud thinking! That is what Roco do as mentioned in several posts. Two motors could give a problem with keeping them at the same speed, but I go along with you that the idea, in engineering terms does work and indeed does work very well. One post against the idea objected to the drive shaft going through the cab but there is no reason for it to do that on an open cab loco as it can run beneath the floor. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 .... I can't even begin to comprehend how you've done that. I seem to recall that Tim's also a dentist, so if you want your teeth checked........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 This one (now with Locomotion Models) goes OK...tender drive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJfUTOOiXLY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 I seem to recall that Tim's also a dentist, so if you want your teeth checked........ The gold safety valve adds valuable extra weight and doesn't tarnish. Tim 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2015 They regularly handled 200 tons in all weathers, but had problems with 250 ton top link expresses in bad weather. 200 tons would be about 14 six wheelers or seven or eight Mk1s. Tractive effort varied between 10,335 lb for No1 and 15,779 lb for the 1003 class More like 6 Mk1s, they are typically 32-33 tons each; passengers and luggage extra. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 Although I model the blue diesel era, I have to say I'm tempted by the Stirling Single. It would look great hauling my Bachmann Inspection saloon round my layout. The only question is, do I paint my inspection saloon green to match the loco, or paint the Single BR blue with full yellow ends to match my inspection saloon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymzHatstand Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 [quote name="ColinK" post="1854756" timestamp="1428950362" The only question is, do I paint my inspection saloon green to match the loco, or paint the Single BR blue with full yellow ends to match my inspection saloon? Or in ersatz task finish, it'll blend nicely then! Cheers J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 Two motors could give a problem with keeping them at the same speed, but I go along with you that the idea, in engineering terms does work and indeed does work very well. Bernard 2 motors would give a problem. Having scratch built a 0-6-0+0-6-0 Mallet based on commercial chassis. I had to test 4 "identical" chassis to find 2 that came close to having the same speed under the same conditions. I would have liked to get a closer match, but there were no more chassis available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTom Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Dunsignalling writes: The problem is purely mathematical. The further back one goes, the more railway companies there are and the greater the risk that, if a manufacturer does pick on a particular coach type, a big chunk of the potential market will decide it's not the one they want... (etc.) I'm afraid that Dunsignalling writes nothing more or less than good sense... But: I believe mine is a drum still worth beating. The conditions of supply being fixed, for now at least, the maths mentioned above dictate that (we) look to the demand more closely. The key, in my opinion, is selecting carriage types that were still in use in early BR days (up to, say, the mid to late fifties). Kernow's Gateway and Bachmann's Birdcage stock are going to be the proof of that particular pudding. Or: selecting carriages that are run on popular preserved railways, or in special settings, that the 'toy train' public as well as more serious modellers have seen, become familiar with and (at least sometimes) become especially fond of. Exactly what has been done with the locomotives, I suggest, including the Single. Loco hauled Met/LT stock? Edited April 13, 2015 by SamTom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 More like 6 Mk1s, they are typically 32-33 tons each; passengers and luggage extra. I was assuming that Mk1s had better bearings and less rolling resistance than wooden under-framed six wheelers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 Perhaps its clockwork, controlled by a DCC chip! Hat, coat and carden shaft, i'm off to bed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Perhaps its clockwork, controlled by a DCC chip! Hat, coat and carden shaft, i'm off to bed. My guess is live steam - after all, Rapido are known for their fidelity to the prototype..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The gold safety valve adds valuable extra weight and doesn't tarnish. Tim Ohhhhh That explains the price... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have to admit that the idea of it bring tender drive and /or with shafts running between tender and loco, does not appeal to me at all. With modern small coreless motors, we should not need too in this day and age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I guess customers opinion doesn't matter then ? I'm sorry but I don't like tender drive models... British or European drive ancestry. I don't like having to deal with lost traction tyres, cardan shafts which grate on the body side of models on sharp corners (or can break..or separate or both). The fact the cardan shaft on some European models revolves visibly whilst it occupies a large part of the footplate is not good... The Stirling single is a large open cab.. How will it be hidden ?- as a regulator handle or a firing shovel ?.. It needs to be strong as its hi-torque.. So a minuscule one hidden beneath the footplate could be a weak point ?... A drive shaft can run from tender to locomotive *under* the footplate and not offend at all. It's been done, have a look through this topic http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4227and see. Granted the main subject is a goods engine, not a single, but the method is adaptable. Cheers, David Edited for dodgy spelling Edited April 14, 2015 by davknigh 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 A drive shaft can run from tender to locomotive *under* the footplate and not offend at all. And probably less obtrusively than the dangling wires routinely used for tender pickups and DCC readiness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2015 Dunsignalling writes: I'm afraid that Dunsignalling writes nothing more or less than good sense... But: I believe mine is a drum still worth beating. The conditions of supply being fixed, for now at least, the maths mentioned above dictate that (we) look to the demand more closely. The key, in my opinion, is selecting carriage types that were still in use in early BR days (up to, say, the mid to late fifties). Kernow's Gateway and Bachmann's Birdcage stock are going to be the proof of that particular pudding. Or: selecting carriages that are run on popular preserved railways, or in special settings, that the 'toy train' public as well as more serious modellers have seen, become familiar with and (at least sometimes) become especially fond of. Exactly what has been done with the locomotives, I suggest, including the Single. Loco hauled Met/LT stock? Thanks for the endorsement. I think you are dead right about the items of pre-group origin in the pipeline; producing such coaches in multiple liveries is key to making quantities sufficient to ensure those who want them in properly pre-group liveries will ever see any at prices that won't put them out of the reach of most. The Kernow and Bachmann models are being produced alongside or to follow locomotives already produced or commissioned and I think that is a critical factor. I don't think it would be viable for any manufacturer to make coaches to "go with" a locomotive made by someone else. There seems to be quite enough difficulty in bringing compatible locos and coaches to market within six months of each other when they are produced by the same firm! John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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