Hornby announce SR 58' Maunsell Rebuilt Ex-LSWR Coaches

[cromptonnut]

Oxford Diecast OO SR 488 Adams 4-4-2T Radial Tank Southern Livery OR76AR003

 

Apologies in advance for the seemingly daft question but would that have run with the coaches noted above (Hornby R4717 and R4719) or are they the wrong green for wartime?

Edited June 19, 2015 by cromptonnut

[Tim Dubya]

Apologies in advance for the seemingly daft question but would that have run with the coaches noted above (Hornby R4717 and R4719)? or are they the wrong green?

 

Yes they are SR livery coaches so would have run with the Oxford Radial in SR livery.

[Dunsignalling]

Here is one I took earlier!  This is summer 1960 and 30584 still seems to have the early emblem.  Certainly the later train formation as described above and I do recall it being green, although that might just be my memory.

 

30584 Axminster 1960 (RH)_rmweb.jpg

30584 never received the later emblem and all Maunsell coaches remaining in service by then had been repainted into green.

 

John

[Joseph_Pestell]

30584 never received the later emblem and all Maunsell coaches remaining in service by then had been repainted into green.

 

John

 

That's a 1960 photo and, as per another post, they look like Maunsell corridor stock. So they are certainly green because their "early" BR livery would have been carmine and cream.

[GeoffBird]

The Hornby Website says that These coaches will appear in SR Olive Green livery.  At the moment, neither Hornby nor Oxford are doing a Class 0415 in a suitable livery - either early BR (which might just fit) late BR or LSWR green.  Certainly some of the coaches were repainted in Malachite before becoming BR Crimson and possibly BR(S) green before withdrawl around 1958 - 1960.

[suerose]

I may have missed it but have Hornby said which coach numbers will actually be produced? I assume that Dia 98 and 31 are loose coaches so can be run with anything I want them to. Am I right that Dia 99 and 48 ran together to make the two car sets 42-46 (I think). If not other than buying the MIke King book, can anybody ssuggest sensible coach formations for these.

[Robin Brasher]

Replying to Cromptonnut's post 106 Rothbury Cards produce a greetings card with a Radial hauling a single brake coach. It is called Lyme Regis Bound by Philip Hawkins, code 6004v. Please see http://www.rothburypublishing.com/nostalgic-greetings-cards. Then click on locomotives and turn the pages until you find it. This gives an idea of the type of train you would expect to see on the branch. Someone built an 0 gauge diorama based on this scene and exhibited it at the Allendale Centre in Wimborne.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Robin Brasher

[Ozexpatriate]

Oxford Diecast OO SR 488 Adams 4-4-2T Radial Tank Southern Livery OR76AR003

Where is this referenced?

 

From the Oxford Rail website:

OR76AR001 BR Late 30583

OR76AR002 BR Early 30584

OR76AR003 LSWR 488

(LSWR, not Southern)

[cromptonnut]

The Hornby Website says that These coaches will appear in SR Olive Green livery. At the moment, neither Hornby nor Oxford are doing a Class 0415 in a suitable livery - either early BR (which might just fit) late BR or LSWR green. Certainly some of the coaches were repainted in Malachite before becoming BR Crimson and possibly BR(S) green before withdrawl around 1958 - 1960.

Does that send me back to square one of no combination acailable for wartime?

[Ozexpatriate]

Does that send me back to square one of no combination acailable for wartime?

Yes, not yet, unless you want to repaint/relivery one of the black ones.

 

Does anyone know if any of the ex-LSWR radials got a wartime black livery, perhaps with Bulleid sunshine lettering?

 

During the war of course the 'current' passenger coach livery was Bulleid green malachite, not Maunsell green, but it's highly plausible (and without checking I would guess it to be highly probable) that you would find these coaches still in Maunsell olive.

 

EDIT: thanks Phil.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[phil-b259]

Does that send me back to square one of no combination acailable for wartime?

 

As things stand, yes.

 

However it is entirely possible that either Hornby or Oxford Rail could release a SR radial in olive or wartime black (I don't think either of he two SR ones got Malachite before WW2 broke out) in 2016. So if that is what you after I would hold off geting one of the 2015 releases and see what happens next year.

[phil-b259]

During the war of course the 'current' passenger livery was Bulleid green, not Maunsell green, but it's highly plausible (and without checking I would guess it to be highly probable) that you would find these coaches still in Maunsell olive.

 

Repaints during WW2 were black not Malachite / Bulleid Green - and plenty of engines were still wearing Olive Green at the outbreak of hostilities as initial efforts focused on the top link express passenger locomotives plus any receiving major works attention.

[Ozexpatriate]

Repaints during WW2 were black not Malachite / Bulleid Green - and plenty of engines were still wearing Olive Green at the outbreak of hostilities as initial efforts focused on the top link express passenger locomotives plus any receiving major works attention.

I was talking about coaches when I said "passenger livery". The point of my post was to suggest that the Maunsell olive coaches would probably work with a black locomotive during the second world war.

 

But you're right - I should have said "malachite" rather than "Bulleid green" for the coaching stock. Thanks for the clarification.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Tim Dubya]

Where is this referenced?

 

From the Oxford Rail website:

(LSWR, not Southern)

 

From Antics via Google.

 

Cheers

 

edit:  OOPS, just read the small print and yes it's LSWR 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Tim Dubya

[Ozexpatriate]

From Antics via Google.

I recall there being some confusion over this originally. Perhaps the Antics page pre-dates January 20?

Edited June 19, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Mike Storey]

Sadly, the short answer is no. However, they are probably less wrong than other options. The Island used, I believe, three 3-sets of ex-LSWR stock to completely different diagrams. These were shipped back to the mainland before the outbreak of the Hitler war, and replaced in turn by ex-LBSCR and then ex-SECR stock. Eventually these last became the sole survivors in use.

 

PB

 

Quite so, but a couple of them could be mildly bashed to give a passing representation, although they still would not be entirely accurate without cutting and shutting. This however, would be preferable to trying to modify any of the Roxey (or other) kits, none of which I can find to exactly match any of the Island carriages, especially post-WW2. I intend to purchase a few for this purpose to go with my Kernow/DJM 02's when they arrive. I am just trying trying to work out which ones would be closest.

[coachmann]

In the case of the Southern Railway, black & white photos are not really enough evidence of green. Malachite was not generally adopted until 1940 even though some electric stock and new coaches had carried it before that. What was general was coaches in Maunsell green carrying Bullied yellow & black sunshine insignia and so insignia does not automatically denote a coach is in malachite. The late 1930s was not a period to pin down the various greens the Southern was using. When I asked David Jenkinson (while at the NRM) to ask if one of the transport finish suppliers could let me have a sample of Maunsell green, the response from the paint company went along the lines of "Oh, mix yellow & black as usual...".  It seemed to me they didn't have an formula/recipe for SR green even though they supplie me with colours for late NER locos, LNER locos and LNWR coaches.

 

I tried their advice and the resulting colour was heading towards Urie green. It required a touch of blue to send it into the accepted Maunsell dark green spectrum.

Edited June 19, 2015 by coachmann

[phil gollin]

.

 

So what happened to the branch line during the war ?

 

PRESUMABLY being near the coast it had restrictions on passenger traffic, and if there were any naval or army camps near the sea there would have been more goods traffic ???????????

[cromptonnut]

.

 

So what happened to the branch line during the war ?

 

PRESUMABLY being near the coast it had restrictions on passenger traffic, and if there were any naval or army camps near the sea there would have been more goods traffic ???????????

 

I'm not aware of anything particularly special - certainly in the books I have on the line I don't recall reading any although to be fair I am not at home at the moment to find them to check - my particular interest was simply as it could be an interesting period to model as I have local connections and my grandfather moved from London to Axminster with his job as a toolmaker during the war where he met the lady that became my grandmother (and without, of course, I wouldn't be here...) and they were actually the first couple to be married in Axminster after the end of the war was declared.

[Dunsignalling]

.

 

So what happened to the branch line during the war ?

 

PRESUMABLY being near the coast it had restrictions on passenger traffic, and if there were any naval or army camps near the sea there would have been more goods traffic ???????????

I think there was a RAF Rescue launch based in Lyme Regis for the benefit of downed airmen (it remained 'on station ' until the 1960s). However, getting from the station to the harbour involved negotiating a very steep and narrow hill so I would think any supplies connected with it would be more conveniently delivered by road (or even sea).

 

Local passenger travel for work/schools might have increased a bit because of petrol rationing and there would presumably have been some movement of military personnel but, overall, I doubt the line was much affected by the hostilities beyond the loss of summer holiday traffic.

 

John

[cromptonnut]

That ridiculously steep hill down to "the Cobb" as it's known (made famous by that scene in the French Lieutenant's Woman) still exists and I have many a childhood memory of slogging down the hill from the car park at the top, via the crazy golf half way down, with supplies for a day at the beach - and even worse getting back up again.  There is a more 'gentler' hill that goes down to the other side of the sea front and wide enough road normally used as a promenade that enables heavy vehicles, under escort supervision, to get to that part of the beach.

 

It's not heavy military equipment, but it's the route used when the Radio One Roadshow used to visit back in the 80's.  Good old Smiley Miley...

[Dunsignalling]

That ridiculously steep hill down to "the Cobb" as it's known (made famous by that scene in the French Lieutenant's Woman) still exists and I have many a childhood memory of slogging down the hill from the car park at the top, via the crazy golf half way down, with supplies for a day at the beach - and even worse getting back up again.  There is a more 'gentler' hill that goes down to the other side of the sea front and wide enough road normally used as a promenade that enables heavy vehicles, under escort supervision, to get to that part of the beach.

 

It's not heavy military equipment, but it's the route used when the Radio One Roadshow used to visit back in the 80's.  Good old Smiley Miley...

I must admit that I haven't attempted Cobb Hill on foot, in either direction, for a good few years, but the other road (Broad St.) isn't that much gentler!

 

Best approach is to arrive by bus at the bottom of Broad St., walk to/from the Cobb via the prom then catch one back from the same stop!

 

John

Edited June 20, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Godfrey Glyn]

For those of you thinking of building a Lyme branch, the station building was moved from Lyme to Alresford. Not sure how many external changes were made to it when it was rebuilt on the Mid-Hants.

 

Hope thats useful for someone

 

all the best

Godfrey

[Joseph_Pestell]

With these coaches, the Adams Radial (x2), Beattie WT, 02, 700, and gate-stock, this really is a great time for LSW modellers. There may soon be more LSW BLTs than GW.

[Peter Bedding]

...Does anyone know if any of the ex-LSWR radials got a wartime black livery, perhaps with Bulleid sunshine lettering?.....

 

From photos, 3125, 3488 and 3520.

 

Source "Branch Line to Lyme Regis"

 

PB