RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2015 Don't knoe whether these are the same vehicles but they look LSWR and therefore "look similar": Bulleid Pacific at Exeter Central by Geoff Dowling, auf Flickr Please Hornby, do them in BR malachite livery. The BR teak Gresleys have been done fine in respect of the numbering and lettering, so I cannot see why this should not be repeated in a Southern style. Did these coaches in the event of an early BR repaint wear vermillon colour like the Birdcage stock of Bachmann or were they painted standard crimson? Felix Photo is unfortunately not dated but looks early fifties to me. The green coach looks more like SR malachite re-lettered and re-varnished (or repainted using up SR paint stocks) in the early years of BR rather than the later (darker) BR manifestation of the colour. Bachmann did the same, quite correctly, on early issues of their Bulleid stock. One always has to be cautious about colours on old slides but this one doesn't look to have gone off too badly; the loco looks OK and neither the red coach in the train or the set in Platform 4 look faded, suggesting it's not later than 1954/5; too early for BR Malachite. BR Southern Region was just as parsimonious with new paint as the SR had been and older coaches like these had to be in a pretty desperate state before they got a full repaint. Some went straight from SR to BR green post-1956 without passing through crimson and others went for scrap in the late fifties having never received any BR paint. I'd therefore be content if Hornby did versions of these coaches in the SR green as per what has already been announced but with BR markings, though I'd prefer them in crimson. Mind you, if these turn out as well as I think they are going to, I'd probably buy both. John 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I venture to suggest that the malachite compo next the loco might be a 56ft corridor brake compo of one of the various diagrams of the Edwardian period. They came with left and right handed corridors, and care was taken when forming sets that the corridors were all on the same side. This convention was discarded by Maunsell. So this is quite different from the 58ft rebuilds chosen by Hornby. Nice piccy though. Set 422-56ft BTK D131L-Number 3139.JPG From Set 422. A 56ft Brake Third Compo (Diagram 131L - Left Hand corridor) Set 422-57ft BTK D134R-Number 3172.JPG Also from Set 422. A 57ft Brake Third Compo (Diagram 134R - Right Hand Corridor). Hth PB I could use one of those 56 ft corridor brake compo for Padstow as they appear to have been used on Padstow-Bodmin services along with NC rebuilt 58' brakes. Oh well. We are lucky to be getting the 58' non-corridor stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted November 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2015 Saw these at Warley yesterday and I thought they were absolutely stunning. Really looking forward to them coming out next year. Godfrey 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymx5 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Saw these at Warley yesterday and I thought they were absolutely stunning. Really looking forward to them coming out next year. Godfrey Thanks Godfrey. Agree completely. It was difficult to take a clear photo in the glass cabinet Hornby used and I think your shots have come out better than mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The ends need all the rivet heads removing, but they do look quite nice. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 To be pedantic there's no such thing as a "brake third compo" - A brake third is a brake third. A brake compo is a brake first/third. While LSWR corridor brake thirds came in left and right handed corridor versions, all three diagrams of corr. brake compo were all left handed. Chris Knowles-Thomas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) High Corridor window SR green versions? Any sign or rumblings of the prosect of the Maunsell high window coaches in SOUTHERN RAILWAY green? Ever hopeful Richard Edited January 15, 2016 by Richard Jones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hi, Currently browsing RM web from Auckland! Although the Maunsell 58' rebuilds are a little late for my chosen period I am rather tempted to put in a pre-order for them - can anyone advise whether the four coaches offered by Hornby are appropriate to make up a 4 coach set? (or any other advice on set make up and allocation would be appreciated, particularly when these were "new" in the late 1930s Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Hi, Currently browsing RM web from Auckland! Although the Maunsell 58' rebuilds are a little late for my chosen period I am rather tempted to put in a pre-order for them - can anyone advise whether the four coaches offered by Hornby are appropriate to make up a 4 coach set? (or any other advice on set make up and allocation would be appreciated, particularly when these were "new" in the late 1930s Cheers Richard Hi Richard, So far as I have been able to make out, these coaches were not operated as a fleet in the way that new stock was utilised. The 8-compartment Brake Thirds and 6-compartment Lavatory Brake composites were mainly (if not exclusively) formed into 2-sets for West of England branch and local services. The Lavatory Thirds and Lavatory Brake thirds were generally designated as loose stock and seem to have been widely distributed over the Southern, not just confined to ex-LSWR territory. I intend to use one of the 9-compartment thirds as a plausible substitute for an ex-SECR 'Long Ten' until someone (me?) gets round to making one. Regards John Edited June 12, 2016 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 Hi, Currently browsing RM web from Auckland! Although the Maunsell 58' rebuilds are a little late for my chosen period I am rather tempted to put in a pre-order for them - can anyone advise whether the four coaches offered by Hornby are appropriate to make up a 4 coach set? (or any other advice on set make up and allocation would be appreciated, particularly when these were "new" in the late 1930s Cheers Richard There is some very useful information about the history of these vehicles on Hornby's website. Might give you some ideas about how to deploy them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Hi Richard, So far as I have been able to make out, these coaches were not operated as a fleet in the way that new stock was utilised. The 8-compartment Brake Thirds and 6-compartment Lavatory Brake composites were mainly (if not exclusively) formed into 2-sets for West of England branch and local services. The Lavatory Thirds and Lavatory Brake thirds were generally designated as loose stock and seem to have been widely distributed over the Southern, not just confined to ex-LSWR territory. I intend to use one of the 9-compartment thirds as a plausible substitute for an ex-SECR 'Long Ten' until someone (me?) gets round to making one. Regards John If I may add to what you say, the Mike King 'bible' on SR Coaches has a lot of information on the conversions and the 12-odd diagrams that resulted over time from them, but is less clear on their subsequent use in sets or otherwise. There were also, for instance, 3-sets of two Bk3s + a compo but it is less clear exactly which of the diagrams were concerned. As an aside, I have an Excel file on SR set number + coach number allocations, which probably came from the SRG or Semg web sites and which gives 'LSWR rebuild' set allocations, insofar as there were any, but that file does not relate coach number to diagram number. As ever, it will take research via a number of sources to establish what can or cannot be done for which era/livery with the Hornby coaches - even with renumbering. It's all great fun! (Minor edit only) Edited January 16, 2016 by olivegreen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) If I may add to what you say, the Mike King 'bible' on SR Coaches has a lot of information on the conversions and the 12-odd diagrams that resulted over time from them, but is less clear on their subsequent use in sets or otherwise. There were also, for instance, 3-sets of two Bk3s + a compo but it is less clear exactly which of the diagrams were concerned. As an aside, I have an Excel file on SR set number + coach number allocations, which probably came from the SRG or Semg web sites and which gives 'LSWR rebuild' set allocations, insofar as there were any, but that file does not relate coach number to diagram number. As ever, it will take research via a number of sources to establish what can or cannot be done for which era/livery with the Hornby coaches - even with renumbering. It's all great fun! (Minor edit only) The telling sentence in Mr King's excellent work is on Page 121 and begins: " Sets 42-6 were the only ones formed wholly using 58ft rebuilds........" (my italics) These were the 2-sets referred to in my earlier post #234. My use of the term "loose" to describe the way the other types were employed was itself rather loose. I should have expanded on it to the effect that, when coaches of the other diagrams being covered by Hornby were included in sets, it was usually in conjunction with coaches of other designs/origin. John Edited January 16, 2016 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 I suspect a lot of cutting and shutting will begin once these coaches hit the streets (… rails). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Hi, Many thanks for the comprehensive reply to my query, however I don't think these will fit in with my chosen location/period, so will save my pennies for something more appropriate. Am I mistaken or did Hornby do some of the high window Maunsell coaches in Southern Railway livery in a limited edition train pack? Hoping to treat the grandchildren to a ride on the Glenbrook Vintage Railway later today. Best wishes Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Yes - Maunsell lined livery in what Hornby somewhat oddly call the '1938 suburban' train and coach packs. The title is odd since the two packs together form a high-windowed 6-set number 329 (plus the T9 loco number 312, of course) which, according to the records I have, was for 'special traffic'. I understand set 329 spent many of its SR days in Kent (possibly boat train traffic, but note that they are restriction 4 vehicles so route availability in Kent would have been slightly restricted) but even if that is not accurate 'suburban' still seems odd to me! Anyway, what's in a name? The important thing is that the coaches are high-window versions! (Edited to add the bit in brackets) Edited January 17, 2016 by olivegreen 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Yes - Maunsell lined livery in what Hornby somewhat oddly call the '1938 suburban' train and coach packs. The title is odd since the two packs together form a high-windowed 6-set number 329 (plus the T9 loco number 312, of course) which, according to the records I have, was for 'special traffic'. I understand set 329 spent many of its SR days in Kent (possibly boat train traffic, but note that they are restriction 4 vehicles so route availability in Kent would have been slightly restricted) but even if that is not accurate 'suburban' still seems odd to me! Anyway, what's in a name? The important thing is that the coaches are high-window versions! (Edited to add the bit in brackets) Hi, many thanks unfortunately an eBay search shows them fairly thin on the ground - a couple of the packs with locos, but none of the extra coach packs. Oh well perhaps Hornby will redo them! Best wishes Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hi, many thanks unfortunately an eBay search shows them fairly thin on the ground - a couple of the packs with locos, but none of the extra coach packs. Oh well perhaps Hornby will redo them! Best wishes Richard I know - I have been looking for one since they all sold out a couple of years ago! (They were released as limited-production items) As to Hornby re-doing them…. there we're in the realms of porcine aeronautics, methinks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hi Looks like the only sensible option might be to buy some of the blood & custard ones and repaint them! However they are not that high on my list, it was just that having some suitable R-T-R coaches would ease the pressure on the workbench to build various Mallard, Blacksmith and Roxey coaches, not to mention an LBSCR 5 set Royal train from Smokey loco works. If I can get a decent paint finish on those I may consider repainting some Hornby coaches! Best wishes Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 The 8 compartment brake thirds (2636-2640) and 6 compartment lavatory brake compos (6401-6405) spent their whole lives in 2-sets 42-46 except that set 46 was increased to 5 coaches in 1958 with 3 x ex SECR 'long tens' for the Clapham Junc - Kensington Olympia service. The 6 compartment lavatory brake thirds (2625-2629) were in 2-sets 51-54 & 56 with LSWR 56ft lav'y brake compos and none became 'loose' until BR days. The 9 compartment lavatory thirds (38 coaches numbered between 169 and 513) were mainly loose. So if you want to run a 4 car train pre-War it would be reasonable to run two of these plus one of sets 42-46. Chris Knowles-Thomas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 26, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2016 Just had notification from Hatton's that Hornby are now to produce the BR green versions in "unlined BR crimson livery instead". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purley Oaks Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Just had notification from Hatton's that Hornby are now to produce the BR green versions in "unlined BR crimson livery instead". Ah! that clears something up - was looking through the Hornby catalogue yearbook and spotted the BR green versions - but checking the Hornby website they had changed to BR crimson. Hope to find out at the Glasgow show if BR green are still on the cards (probably next year I'd guess). Wonder what the coaches will be with the Adams set? Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 According to the Hornby website the train pack includes Maunsell ex-LSWR Brake Third ‘S2636S’ and Brake Composite ‘S6401S’ in Crimson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 The 8 compartment brake thirds (2636-2640) and 6 compartment lavatory brake compos (6401-6405) spent their whole lives in 2-sets 42-46 except that set 46 was increased to 5 coaches in 1958 with 3 x ex SECR 'long tens' for the Clapham Junc - Kensington Olympia service. The 6 compartment lavatory brake thirds (2625-2629) were in 2-sets 51-54 & 56 with LSWR 56ft lav'y brake compos and none became 'loose' until BR days. The 9 compartment lavatory thirds (38 coaches numbered between 169 and 513) were mainly loose. So if you want to run a 4 car train pre-War it would be reasonable to run two of these plus one of sets 42-46. Chris Knowles-Thomas Thanks, Chris for the extra information, Personally I think this will be a well-selected choice of prototypes, enabling the enthusiast modeller to select a purchase of 2, 3 or 4 matching coaches. One further question comes to mind; please what is the diagram number of the 56ft Lav Brake Compos? My own records are short of this information. PB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Hello Peter The LSWR 56ft BCLs in sets 51-54 & 56 were to SR diagram 407. On the subject of BR(S) green I believe hardly any of Hornby's 58ft rebuilds received this livery - only a handful of diag 31 TLs. But many kept re-varnished SR malachite (with BR insignia) well into BR days. For example diag 98 BTL S2626S at Evercreech Junc on 22/7/58 ('Southern Coaches in Colour' / Welch / Noodle Books). Chris Knowles-Thomas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Could any of these be suitable for bashing into early SR emus, or will Hornby? Gerry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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